Wandavision

[kevinism]

Can we put SPOILERS in the thread title? It's almost impossible to read all these hidden boxes on my phone.

[Oberon]

If Agatha gets redeemed in WandaVision, then there's an excellent chance that she could tutor Wanda in magic. Look, Wanda is sort of like Django Reinhardt of magic. A major virtuoso with tons of natural talent. However, he never learned to properly read music. I think Wanda has trouble controlling her powers. So by being taught by Strange it would be like Reinhardt going to study to the Berklee College of Music because he admired the work of a professor working there and wanted to learn from him/her. Doctor Strange HAS been trained in magic, and I think he's gotten so advanced now that he can teach others about it. I found this quote about Harkness online which you might find interesting and funny:

"Yeah I’m curious how much like the comics she’s gonna be. Like, are they gonna reveal that the reason we didn’t see her face before she transformed her outfit into the 50s style is because she’s actually visibly really old like Agatha is in the comics? If she really is well over 12,000 years old, that could allow for an amusing exchange between her and Strange. She could recognize him as the Ancient One’s successor and tell him she had already learned the most advanced magicks before the Ancient One learned how to walk, so don’t even bother trying to fight her. It's going to be interesting to see whether or not the MCU attempts the Herculean task of reworking Marvel's disparate magics into a single system or if they say "fuck it" and let different magics be different. The MCU's initial take of trying to keep everything mostly sci-fi with Clarke's Third Law has been increasingly breaking with Dr. Strange needing to do straight-on magic stuff, and fact of the matter is the comics just kinda go hogwild with it. Like, even wrapping all of these magics as forms of cosmic energy ties things up more than the comics ever did, a universe where Satan, every mythological pantheon, and with them every mythological afterlife exist together."

I loved Agatha from the very beginning in Fantastic Four. I really loved the George Perez FF annual with the FF in New Salem and the Salem 7 stuff, Nic Scratch.

And then Wanda, equally good. But some point after that

was when this idea she was also from Atlantis came up. It sort of feels not needed, but I never saw too many stories with her adventures back then, or anything much of a reference to them.

Before this, I had decided in head-cannon, that the folks of New Salem, and specifically the Salem's 7, were perhaps age-old descendants and merging of a lost Inhuman's tribe and some folks of magical traditions circa the Middle ages to the Renaissance - other words families of magical trained folks from the Greek mysteries etc. But they lost their origins in moving around the world; after the original Salem, they moved to the Rockies right? So this is the MCU version, maybe And I sorta agree it would be cool if Agatha gets to look down her nose at Strange, considering how arrogant he has been !

[Oberon]

Let's not make the mistake of conflating what happened in the fictional world with what occurred in the real world.

In the fictional universe, Earth's media coined the name "Captain Marvel" for both Mar-Vell and Monica. The media is the only one with a natural claim to it. But whom they bequeath the name to has much a right as anyone else. It really is as simple as that. That's the only rational in-universe perspective.

But the real world? We know the actual reasons why Monica no longer has the name is a deeper story. And no, it's not as simple as some fictional "natural claim" to one man's fictional legacy. We know how Marvel's bullpen operated back then, thanks in part to comments made by John Byrne on his forum regarding the environment perpetuated at that time. Monica never really stood a chance of keeping the name.

Sure, I have more thoughts on the matter, but never mind what I think.

In the fictional world, Carol apologized, so at some level she understood that Monica had an established right to the name as well.

This makes me wonder if Brie has a very limited contract with the movies and this may happen. In story she might become 'Binary' and be referred to as that, until eventually she is recast or more cgi, considering that Binary has that kind of look. Then Monica regains her title, though I'm not certain this is likely or how it would happen in Marvel. Only if they figure they could sell books, lol

[Oberon]

I am kinda confused about the sitcom part.

I thought the sitcom stuff was being played out into the real world right? That is how Darcy was watching.

But... why would spoilers:

Agatha tell the real world what is going on via sitcom stuff in her little villain song?

end of spoilers

That doesn't make any sense to me. Telling Wanda, sure, but the whole "its been me all along so funny sitcom!" thing is just weird. It seems to break the point of hte show... that was only for "us"... the audience. Almost 4th wall breaking no?

Also, they said broadcasts had stopped, so how was that, who was that? hmmm.

The title: Agatha is breaking the 4th wall in telling us this, and using the 'format' of the sitcoms and her song.

[gurkle]

This makes me wonder if Brie has a very limited contract with the movies and this may happen.

Seems unlikely. They've obviously got high hopes for her, and Carol's first movie was a big hit (people often forget this) so I don't think anything has changed.

Superpowered Monica can fit into Carol's movies exactly the same way Wanda fits into Doctor Strange's second movie: as a second lead who has similar (but not identical) powers to the lead. Even Black Widow in Captain America's second movie was a bit like that, and so was Hulk in Thor 3. It seems like Feige likes pairing heroes with other heroes who are somewhat similar in their talents but somewhat different in their attitudes.

[Dipter]

It’s common knowledge that when Marvel Studios hires lead actors, they sign them onto 10 year contracts, I don’t think Brie will be going anywhere.

[JudicatorPrime]

Nice false equivalence and funny how you wanna be quick to say "Carol apologized" but when it's turned around now it's unreasonable.

I was merely stating the facts. Carol did apologize for not checking in with Monica first before she took the name. That's what friends do.

Monica didn't do anything wrong. The media called her Captain Marvel. She went with it. When she got to the Avengers and realized there was a honored former member now deceased who had the name, she touched base with a hero far greater in name and legacy in Captain America, who blessed the decision and told her it was ok. Mar-Vell had no children at the time. Carol was off doing Binary things, not in the least concerned about Captain Marvel, his legacy, or even checking in on his "wife" to see how she was coping with Mar-Vell's death.

[Vegeta]

I don't think Agatha has been secretly "helping Wanda" throughout the series. You don't get a banging villainous musical number like that only to have it be hand waved away next episode.

At best, Agatha may be the tragic lackey of a bigger villain pulling the strings (think Meg from Disney's Hercules animated movie) or she is deceiving and manipulating Wanda to save someone else. (Perhaps, like Wanda and Monica, she too has lost someone and this is how she plans to get them back.) But I don't see any reason to believe she is secretly doing something heroic behind the scenes to help Wanda as of now.

[Frontier]

Seems unlikely. They've obviously got high hopes for her, and Carol's first movie was a big hit (people often forget this) so I don't think anything has changed.

Superpowered Monica can fit into Carol's movies exactly the same way Wanda fits into Doctor Strange's second movie: as a second lead who has similar (but not identical) powers to the lead. Even Black Widow in Captain America's second movie was a bit like that, and so was Hulk in Thor 3. It seems like Feige likes pairing heroes with other heroes who are somewhat similar in their talents but somewhat different in their attitudes.

People also seem to be forgetting it's not just Monica in CM2. Ms. Marvel's supposed to be in it as well, so that's two super-powered characters for Carol to bounce off of.

I don't think Agatha has been secretly "helping Wanda" throughout the series. You don't get a banging villainous musical number like that only to have it be hand waved away next episode.

At best, Agatha may be the tragic lackey of a bigger villain pulling the strings (think Meg from Disney's Hercules animated movie) or she is deceiving and manipulating Wanda to save someone else. (Perhaps, like Wanda and Monica, she too has lost someone and this is how she plans to get them back.) But I don't see any reason to believe she is secretly doing something heroic behind the scenes to help Wanda as of now.

I agree with the thought that Agatha has her own agenda and isn't the cause of the Hex, because she seemingly flew in and inserted herself and has been trying to make it more unstable by manipulating Wanda and Vision.

[JudicatorPrime]

This makes me wonder if Brie has a very limited contract with the movies and this may happen. In story she might become 'Binary' and be referred to as that, until eventually she is recast or more cgi, considering that Binary has that kind of look. Then Monica regains her title, though I'm not certain this is likely or how it would happen in Marvel. Only if they figure they could sell books, lol

MCU writers aren't beholden to comic book history. So if something was to happen to MCU Carol, they could very well hand Monica the title and the mantle of Captain Marvel in the MCU. I don't see it happening, but if it did, by their own standard Carol fans would have to be ok with it. But again, I doubt anything like that will ever happen.

[Iron Maiden]

Yes! Maybe not the actual Ringmaster, Princess Python, Human Cannonball, et al., but some type of callback homage to the group. That would have gotten a chuckle out of me for sure. An opportunity missed.

Maybe they were there but we didn't catch it. Someone told me about the beekeeper with the swarm of bees that was a shout out to AIM. That one went over my head since he had a real beekeeper outfit. AIM has those odd shaped hoods but fans have called them beekeepers as a joke.

[Iron Maiden]

People also seem to be forgetting it's not just Monica in CM2. Ms. Marvel's supposed to be in it as well, so that's two super-powered characters for Carol to bounce off of.

I agree with the thought that Agatha has her own agenda and isn't the cause of the Hex, because she seemingly flew in and inserted herself and has been trying to make it more unstable by manipulating Wanda and Vision.

and what about when she got "frozen in place" when she was at the outer edge of the Hex? Shouldn't she have been able to get out of it on her own? Vision had to snap her out of it.

[gurkle]

and what about when she got "frozen in place" when she was at the outer edge of the Hex? Shouldn't she have been able to get out of it on her own? Vision had to snap her out of it.

She was faking it. That's why she could move and talk when no one else could in that area.

I do agree with those who think she has some agenda that isn't necessarily evil, especially since her manipulations have probably helped Wanda and Vision question this reality and loosen Wanda's control over it. She's always been a "cruel to be kind" type of character.

[Cruelrain]

How this Thread turned into a Carol vs Monica

I doubt Monica will replace Carol in one her movies like, Brie Larsson will probably get her own trilogy

[useridgoeshere]

and what about when she got "frozen in place" when she was at the outer edge of the Hex? Shouldn't she have been able to get out of it on her own? Vision had to snap her out of it.

I think that the video for her theme song makes it clear that she was playing him.