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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dthirds3 View Post
    I wouldn't say speculating, more of logical inference. The line for a relaunch is very narrow, also yara flor's wonder girl book that was announced as part of this still hasn't come through with line staples books ( Green arrow and aqua man and batgirl) are missing. And the promise of treating legacy characters right like Cassandra cain don't seem to be happening. If feels very slow and incomplete. It's not crazy to thing that part of a bigger problem
    This is exactly how they said it would roll out:
    https://www.gamesradar.com/revisitin...nite-frontier/
    "There won't be a project called '5G', or a big reboot, or whatever," Lee said at the time. "We really want to focus on individual titles, and organically build up individual characters over the course of the next year."
    "We had a lot of great ideas that we were floating around," Lee continued. "And rather than dumping it all in one month and renumbering the line and going for that really short term spike in sales, we just naturally gravitated to the story ideas and concepts we love and building them into the mythology, the ongoing mythology, in a very organic way."

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    No saleswise Lee has said they’re doing great, apparently sales went up for them. The reason the line is compressing is because of all the editors who got let go. The editors got let go because AT&T is over 100 billion dollars in debt and is cutting costs everywhere it can. It’s not a DC thing, WB as a whole is getting gutted, HBO has been completely reshaped.

  3. #18
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    No saleswise Lee has said they’re doing great, apparently sales went up for them. The reason the line is compressing is because of all the editors who got let go. The editors got let go because AT&T is over 100 billion dollars in debt and is cutting costs everywhere it can. It’s not a DC thing, WB as a whole is getting gutted, HBO has been completely reshaped.
    Not sure that sales went up. From a quick look at sales, with exception of one or two titles, all books registered a a substantial decrease in sales from the previous year. Probably some books like Joker made up of for these loses but I am not sure.

    But agreed AT&T is cutting costs and its not just the editors but also from having further creative teams on other titles.

  4. #19
    Spectacular Member km_sus's Avatar
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    It's no wonder Marvel is selling more, I'm pretty sure they're publishing double (triple?!) the amount of books DC is - of course they're making a larger profit. I'm sure Marvel is losing money too, by the way. Comic publishers exist symbiotically in the same (covid wracked) industry; if DC is struggling then I'm pretty sure others publishers are having a hard time too. DC is just a lot more public about their struggles and of course they're owned by Satan in a corporate suit, which doesn't make it any easier. Hell, Marvel could produce twice as many books as they are now, but their owner the Mouse won't move a muscle. Disney values a happy façade more than anything.

    Like @Vordan said, Lee says they're doing good (I heard it from Tom King) and the market is up 30%. Granted, most of that is manga money, but a 30 percent increase is a 30 percent increase, you know what I mean?

  5. #20
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    Marvel have ALWAYS outsold DC. As mentioned The Darknight Detective, it's been like that pretty much for the last 60 years.

    To start with, that was due to Stan schilling his wares to all and sundry any & every chance he got, but also because Marvel were a lot more relevant and hip at the time compared to DC with exciting stories and dynamic artwork.
    Nowadays, it's due more to Marvel overflooding the racks with titles, infinite variant covers, and the sales bump provided by relaunching their books every 12 months.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by km_sus View Post
    It's no wonder Marvel is selling more, I'm pretty sure they're publishing double (triple?!) the amount of books DC is - of course they're making a larger profit. I'm sure Marvel is losing money too, by the way. Comic publishers exist symbiotically in the same (covid wracked) industry; if DC is struggling then I'm pretty sure others publishers are having a hard time too. DC is just a lot more public about their struggles and of course they're owned by Satan in a corporate suit, which doesn't make it any easier. Hell, Marvel could produce twice as many books as they are now, but their owner the Mouse won't move a muscle. Disney values a happy façade more than anything.

    Like @Vordan said, Lee says they're doing good (I heard it from Tom King) and the market is up 30%. Granted, most of that is manga money, but a 30 percent increase is a 30 percent increase, you know what I mean?
    I think the issue is how do you make sure you get a PEICE of that 30% increase beyond BATMAN.

    Also I think the frustration for DC fans is we get told "you can do a book starring (BLANK mainly POC) because it won't sell. So here is YET another Batman book."

    Meanwhile Marvel says "hold my beer and here you go." Moon Girl went 47 issues. Squirrel Girl went 50. Ms Marvel went 70+ in 4 years. Miles is looking at 100 in 2022. Gwenpool went 36 issues-30 issues too long.
    Now add in Boom Studios with Batman's current writer.

    DC fans are not asking for 12 issues and a ton of ongoings. 3-4-6 issue minis or one shots or OGNs (which they are trying now) will do. Marvel's TRASH can get shots before some of DC's royalty like JSA.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Thats not being fair. Damian is the newer and more popular character. This might be harsh, but so what if Cass Cain fans want that book. Thats just sour grapes. But look at their solics. Wally, John Stewart, Far Sector, that JL roster. They are pushing plenty of other characters. They got Taylor on Nightwing, something that would never happen under the old regime, and new creators on Flash, TTs, Superman, Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad, and Green Lantern. They aren't reinventing the wheel but there are changes here.
    What I think they tried to ellaborate is that most fans thought DC would launch titles like JSA, Titans or other B-List heroes related. But instead, DC just launched more titles that had related with Bat-books.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAWtoyoto 432 View Post
    What I think they tried to ellaborate is that most fans thought DC would launch titles like JSA, Titans or other B-List heroes related. But instead, DC just launched more titles that had related with Bat-books.
    "Most" fans, uh huh... anyway, as I already pointed out, Lee said this would be a longer rollout, still plenty of time left in the year to see that kind of stuff.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Guys we know for certain have more books coming: Taylor & Williamson, both have said they have more titles coming, probably six issue minis like The Dark Knight. Bendis has Checkmate coming which he’s again reiterated is on the way.

    Guys who likely have something in the pipeline: Venditti, Bennett - No hard evidence for this but both are still getting DC work, and Bennett at least is one of Snyder’s students with Snyder having said he was making more of a push to get young talent more work

    I don’t really feel certain that a JSA book is coming anymore to be frank.

  10. #25
    small press afficionado matt levin's Avatar
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    All I know is that I went through the entire DC offering for April and there was
    not one
    title that interested me.
    Granted, I'm an old (old) reader and my taste has changed through the decades, but still....
    not one
    title that interested me. Meh.
    Age/Bronze, Age/Reptiles, Alex&Ada, Anne Bonnie, Astro City, Bone, Briggs Land, Cerebus, Criminal, Courtney Crumrin, Eleanor & the Egret, Fables, Fatale, Fell, Grass Kings, Green Valley, Goon, Gotham Midnight, Groo, Hellboy, Hillbilly, Incognegro, Jack Staff, JL8, Jonah Hex, Kane, Lazarus, Little Nemo, Lone Wolf, Next Wave, Popeye, Powers, Princess Ugg, Resident Alien, SiP, Squirrel Girl, Stray Bullets, 10G, Thief of Thieves, Tuki, Usagi, Velvet

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    DC allowed themselves to be driven down by maintaining the old boys club so long. It stifled creativity and the line existed in a bunch of little fiefdoms that wouldn't talk or coordinate with each other. Marvel seems to be a bit better at hiring a more dynamic group of editors, writers, and artists. I will admit though there are a few "old boys club" writers and editors at Marvel and some of their books are stagnating because of it. Fantastic Four right now is awful.

    I think Marvel is willing to take more character risks than DC and try different characters out. Like trying to revitalize the X-line by bringing in a few sort of ex-villains here and there whose motives we don't entirely know. But holy Marvel is really giving female characters a chance to shine which is actually pretty great. It's funny how the only book at Marvel with a limited number of female characters is Avengers, and all the other team books at Marvel are pretty much 50/50 for men and women.
    Marvel also relies mostly on their classic characters when it comes to sales numbers.

    Both companies had rarely a lasting success with new characters.

  12. #27
    Fantastic Member The Cheat's Avatar
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    tl;dr, yes, they're struggling to sell comics. Just like every other non-manga publisher.

  13. #28
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Guys we know for certain have more books coming: Taylor & Williamson, both have said they have more titles coming, probably six issue minis like The Dark Knight. Bendis has Checkmate coming which he’s again reiterated is on the way.

    Guys who likely have something in the pipeline: Venditti, Bennett - No hard evidence for this but both are still getting DC work, and Bennett at least is one of Snyder’s students with Snyder having said he was making more of a push to get young talent more work

    I don’t really feel certain that a JSA book is coming anymore to be frank.
    I think they're just waiting until we read Infinite Frontier #0 (which is out the first week of March), so it'll be in May or June. Why would both Alan and Courtney have stories in the one-shot if they weren't getting something afterwards (which I'm thinking will be JSA with a Stargirl backup)?
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  14. #29
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Guys we know for certain have more books coming: Taylor & Williamson, both have said they have more titles coming, probably six issue minis like The Dark Knight. Bendis has Checkmate coming which he’s again reiterated is on the way.

    Guys who likely have something in the pipeline: Venditti, Bennett - No hard evidence for this but both are still getting DC work, and Bennett at least is one of Snyder’s students with Snyder having said he was making more of a push to get young talent more work

    I don’t really feel certain that a JSA book is coming anymore to be frank.
    guys we have been making suppositions that some new titles would come out in April, they didn't, now we are starting to say May or June. Come next month we will assume that it will be July. We have no evidence they are even planning anything. They will make an assessment in summer of what's working(selling) and will decide if to cancel that or publish something new. But with the relaunch of March it will take them some months to figure out that. Usually a relaunch will start with big numbers and then settle to normal ones. They will wait for that.

    If they wanted to publish further titles endless winter and future state provided them with the necessary time to prepare that, they didn't for therefore they have nothing we all hope, with yesterday's solicits we have already a quarter of the year announced. What we can expect is yes some other bat related stuff.

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarFarr View Post
    guys we have been making suppositions that some new titles would come out in April,
    Jim Lee already explained how this was going to work. It will not be everything all at once, instead things would roll out over the course of the year.

    The idea is not just to take two months to give artists a head start or line everything up to come out the same month. They want to release titles staggered apart and they want those titles to be things that feel like there is a reason to come out and not just because they have always done those titles or need X number of books or to check off some criteria.

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