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  1. #91
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarFarr View Post
    Just Yesterday on twitter they made a prime example of how DC promotes Batman and other characters.
    The prime example was about the difference between the (non)Batman wedding and the Aquawedding. While for the first DC promoted the event with all sorts of things from variants, ads, interviews, talk shows etc. While for Aquaman's wedding just an ad few days before the issue and thats that.
    Now a wedding in DC comics is rare and attracts attention even from fans that don't usually buy the specific title, even just as a collection issue.
    In the CCXP held last month, DC devolved most of their time guess about who? and the rest of the characters actually not all, had to divide between them the remaining time.
    Yeah, maybe they could have given a little more attention to the final issue of a book selling under 20K, I guess. But that Batman wedding issue shipped 450K copies. Was it overkill? Maybe, but I am sure the return on investment seemed to be worth it despite the bait and switch maybe blowing up in their faces.

    I have no idea what CCXP is, or more specifically which one you are talking about, and I am surprised DC had any presence at all if it was an online experience. Yes, at most fan events he will get more time especially when the audience tends to be more consumers of other media aside from comics, because more people want to see Batman stuff and you want to keep viewers engaged.

    But I am not saying Batman does not get big advertising campaigns and I am definitely not saying he never gets more than anyone else. That is still a far cry from the claims they do not promote anything other than Batman.

  2. #92
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    Yeah, maybe they could have given a little more attention to the final issue of a book selling under 20K, I guess. But that Batman wedding issue shipped 450K copies. Was it overkill? Maybe, but I am sure the return on investment seemed to be worth it despite the bait and switch maybe blowing up in their faces.
    That's the way to approach it: what is the net sales for the advertising? DC could have spent as much on promotion as they did with the Bats/Cats one, but does anybody really believe the return would have been remotely as much as the latter?
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  3. #93
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    That's the way to approach it: what is the net sales for the advertising? DC could have spent as much on promotion as they did with the Bats/Cats one, but does anybody really believe the return would have been remotely as much as the latter?
    I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy situation...
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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    That's the way to approach it: what is the net sales for the advertising? DC could have spent as much on promotion as they did with the Bats/Cats one, but does anybody really believe the return would have been remotely as much as the latter?
    In terms of promotion-Batman does not need as he will get it even if DC does not spend a single PENNY on promotion. Same with Spider-Man.

    The gripe folks are having is they will hear more of Batman versus others. With some EXCEPTIONS for Batman.

    Batman The Mission by Priest. Came out in 2001. No store owner or comic con folks knew that book existed. Mind you Priest was doing Panther, Quantum & Woody & Steel at the time.

    Folks are asking why is Batman plastered all over the place to the point of shoving him in everyone faces but that is little to no effort for others?

    Then folks want to cry about sales. If every house ad in a DC Comic is about BATMAN-you can't get mad when Supergirl fails.

    Batman does NEED any help in promotions. NONE. He shouldn't have one. Cutting HALF the ads for his crap is not going to hurt sales.

  5. #95
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    That's the way to approach it: what is the net sales for the advertising? DC could have spent as much on promotion as they did with the Bats/Cats one, but does anybody really believe the return would have been remotely as much as the latter?
    Nobody expected a bats/cats return, but neither just a tweet three days before the issue was released. With the creative team trying their utmost to make up for the lack of promotion using their own pages. The Aquaverse page alone on twitter did more than DC in promoting the wedding and they have no financial return from it.
    It was After all one of your iconic couples was getting married, you could have created some sort of hype without the need of spending money. That kind of hype needed some tweets two/three weeks before, not on the eve of the release. A banner on your facebook/twitter page. Not nothing.
    They have twitter and facebook pages that can promote it. Many fans who dropped the book weren't even aware of the event.

  6. #96
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    If DC ever promoted another character as much as Batman and only received about half as much of a profit you can guarantee that character will not be spotlighted like that again

    Batman's profit margin for DC comics is close to 4 times that of any other comparable character month to month and then if you just transferred all that to say WW or Green Lantern and the profit still wasn't there...
    People will likely get fired
    Comics are not gaining sales
    Its a dwindling niche market that is slowly going down every year or so with slight upticks in the Trade sales demo

    A recovery for weekly comics is not happening so the incentive to push and promote other characters because deprived fanboy/fangirl wants to be fed is not a good argument

    The name of the game is to make as much money as you can while you are able to do that. If we followed some logic on this forum they'd be fine with Batman getting less books as long as other characters got books to offset the loss or equal promotion for another character who sells maybe 1/3 of Batman does any given month.

    However nothing is going to offset the loss in profits for DC doing a move like that
    you spend less and less but need to make a profit somewhere


    Batman isn't the reason DC comics aren't selling.

  7. #97
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    If DC ever promoted another character as much as Batman and only received about half as much of a profit you can guarantee that character will not be spotlighted like that again

    Batman's profit margin for DC comics is close to 4 times that of any other comparable character month to month and then if you just transferred all that to say WW or Green Lantern and the profit still wasn't there...
    People will likely get fired
    Comics are not gaining sales
    Its a dwindling niche market that is slowly going down every year or so with slight upticks in the Trade sales demo

    A recovery for weekly comics is not happening so the incentive to push and promote other characters because deprived fanboy/fangirl wants to be fed is not a good argument

    The name of the game is to make as much money as you can while you are able to do that. If we followed some logic on this forum they'd be fine with Batman getting less books as long as other characters got books to offset the loss or equal promotion for another character who sells maybe 1/3 of Batman does any given month.

    However nothing is going to offset the loss in profits for DC doing a move like that
    you spend less and less but need to make a profit somewhere


    Batman isn't the reason DC comics aren't selling.
    The argument is it's a holding pattern they're not trying to break. They're fine letting the rest of their catalog tread water if Batman is going swimmingly when most argue they should keep it up on Batman and focus to making others reach that success.

    We want them to be stewards of all their characters, not just the one that defaults to success in a cynical world.

  8. #98
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    If DC ever promoted another character as much as Batman and only received about half as much of a profit you can guarantee that character will not be spotlighted like that again

    Batman's profit margin for DC comics is close to 4 times that of any other comparable character month to month and then if you just transferred all that to say WW or Green Lantern and the profit still wasn't there...
    People will likely get fired
    Comics are not gaining sales
    Its a dwindling niche market that is slowly going down every year or so with slight upticks in the Trade sales demo

    A recovery for weekly comics is not happening so the incentive to push and promote other characters because deprived fanboy/fangirl wants to be fed is not a good argument

    The name of the game is to make as much money as you can while you are able to do that. If we followed some logic on this forum they'd be fine with Batman getting less books as long as other characters got books to offset the loss or equal promotion for another character who sells maybe 1/3 of Batman does any given month.

    However nothing is going to offset the loss in profits for DC doing a move like that
    you spend less and less but need to make a profit somewhere


    Batman isn't the reason DC comics aren't selling.
    nobody is blaming Batman, nobody is asking DC to stop promoting Batman, nobody wants Batman to stop being a seller.

    But to put some effort on other characters. We have seen that in other media either on Tv or movies that these characters can sell and have success. No excuses that comics are different etc. seems a standard reply, no thinking outside the box.
    Seems that some people are afraid that other characters might do well. Hey calm down these characters wont dethrone Batman from being the number 1.
    Just some focus on the rest. All you need is some effort and marketing and achieve some decent sales. Expand your line of successful characters. DC has characters with lots of potential.

    Fans want a successful Batman and other characters as well.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarFarr View Post
    nobody is blaming Batman, nobody is asking DC to stop promoting Batman, nobody wants Batman to stop being a seller.

    But to put some effort on other characters. We have seen that in other media either on Tv or movies that these characters can sell and have success. No excuses that comics are different etc. seems a standard reply, no thinking outside the box.
    Seems that some people are afraid that other characters might do well. Hey calm down these characters wont dethrone Batman from being the number 1.
    Just some focus on the rest. All you need is some effort and marketing and achieve some decent sales. Expand your line of successful characters. DC has characters with lots of potential.

    Fans want a successful Batman and other characters as well.
    OMG !! This should be the "Comment of the Year" !!

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    I don't think DC is struggling to sell comics more than Marvel. Marvel is not doing well selling comics either. They just have momentum and can flood the shelves and play with numbers using variants and over ships and cover prices. Retailers have little choice but to rely on that tactic. That is not to say Marvel did not ultimately outsell DC, Marvel has dominated the market. But Marvel books suffered the effects of diminishing sales as bad and often worse than DC.

    I do think DC is not content with playing the same old game though.
    There is an elephant in the room no one wants to talk about.

  11. #101
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarFarr View Post
    Just Yesterday on twitter they made a prime example of how DC promotes Batman and other characters.
    The prime example was about the difference between the (non)Batman wedding and the Aquawedding. While for the first DC promoted the event with all sorts of things from variants, ads, interviews, talk shows etc. While for Aquaman's wedding just an ad few days before the issue and thats that.
    Now a wedding in DC comics is rare and attracts attention even from fans that don't usually buy the specific title, even just as a collection issue.
    In the CCXP held last month, DC devolved most of their time guess about who? and the rest of the characters actually not all, had to divide between them the remaining time.
    It's not even a real wedding, and they had to accept returns for the variant covers once people found out.

  12. #102
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    It's not even a real wedding, and they had to accept returns for the variant covers once people found out.
    its not the issue about real or not, its the marketing.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kalbfus View Post
    There is an elephant in the room no one wants to talk about.
    NO there is not.

    There are two-three comics book NOT by Marvel or DC or Boom (looking at you Power Rangers) that toss out an average of 6 variants a MONTH.

    Zombie Tramp is on this week's FOC. Know how many variants that book has EVERY MONTH? 6. It is at issue 78. 498 covers in all.

    Batman-the current run has 345 out of 105 issues.
    Star Wars (previous run) had 333 out of 75 issues.
    Star war (current) 21 out of 10 issues.
    Black Panther since 2016 has 106.
    Priest's Vampirella has 150 out of 19 issues.
    X-Men Red tossed out 41.

    Yet I bet when folks visit stores they have NOT see all 498 covers or Zombie Tramp on shelves. Because LOL stores don't order all those covers.
    So what is the DIFFERENCE?

    Oh that is right-there is a DEMAND for those variants from Marvel and DC. Like I have pointed out in the past-I know a store owner who has customers that will buy EVERY variant of a book (first issue that is). In fact they do it for EVERY new book at Marvel and DC and Power Rangers.

    Meanwhile I went to a comic con and ANOTHER store owner was have variant cover blow out from his 6 stores. All books $2. I spent $20. Adding up the prices on those variants-$250. One of those DC variants that I got for $2 is listed on Midtown for $80. Another at $50.

    There is no elephant in the room. Dc and Marvel are doing what the FANS are allowing them to do.

    See I can understand doing more than 2 variants for a book.
    I can excuse the Wonder Woman 84 movie variants because that was for the movie. Same with Eternals, Justice League, Wanda Vision and so on.
    I understand tv photo covers that IDW does with Star Trek & CSI.

    I do have an issue when it's done for GREED-Jim Lee trading card covers. A LOT don't need to be made.
    Some of those can be PRINTS.

  14. #104
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarFarr View Post
    its not the issue about real or not, its the marketing.
    As a huge Aquafan, I agree they should have better marketed the wedding at the end of KSD's run.

    As an adult with just a grain of business sense, I completely understand why the Batwedding (that wasn't) was so much more hyped. From multiple angles, it just wouldn't be viable for the Aquaman wedding issue to get so much support. Would I have liked some pretty variant covers? You bet. Am I hoping we get some this year for his 80th? You better believe it. But that run was dwindling in sales on a book they were cancelling. The wedding is kind of a last minute thing that didn't have the overt buildup the Batman wedding did. Keep in mind, Bruce proposed 26 issues prior and there were in-universe stories about Catwoman moving in, getting a dress, etc.

    Arthur and Mera were being played like the Odyssey, and close-to-the-chest as Mera was trying to manipulate the court to get what she wanted. The cards just were not in the deck for the same kind of buildup. Again, would have loved at least a variant and I think that would have sufficed, but the comparison is a little complicated.

  15. #105
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarFarr View Post
    its not the issue about real or not, its the marketing.
    Exactly. They invest a lot on a wedding that's not even happening because it's Batman.

    Aquaman's got a movie that people like, so while maybe it's not gonna be as big a deal as Batman, there should be something. I didn't pay attention to DC output lately but I should hear something about it. I was like casually browsing and there was nothing.

    Their child got more attention, to be fair, since it's a new character, especially once Future State hits, but there still should be something for the wedding too.

    Though I think... DC does this sometimes... because people already assume that Aquaman and Mera are King and Queen of Atlantis, and classically they're married, it's nothing new. The little girl is new, but their relationship isn't, so it's not considered a big deal.

    It's like Damian compared to the other Robin, they made a big deal about Batman having a biological son, even though canonically every male Robin is considered son, but it's so common they don't market it. When he got a biological son, now it' a big deal.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 01-23-2021 at 05:55 PM.

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