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  1. #46
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the COMET View Post
    Yes, i've noticed for some time now that there's a tedency here for saying that Marvel outsells DC, always did and always will. Not to mention inumerous threads titles like "Why DC can't be like Marvel?". "Why Marvel is so much better than DC?". "Why Marvel is so great and DC so bad?". And so on..
    A lie told a million times becames the truth, some say.

    I know there are statistics sites that compute comics sales, but they seem to be US sales only and no garantee that's not rigged. I wouldn't be surprised if Marvel bought a lot of their own comics to pretend they are outselling DC.
    I'm a die-hard DC fan, and even I can't keep a straight face reading that one!!
    Yes, DC has always done well selling trades, but Marvel has picked up their game in that market too.
    Marvel sell more - and that's fine.
    I'd rather a streamlined publishing schedule with great stories than another #1 reboot of an X title.
    I honestly can't see how anyone gains from this practice anymore. I find it confusing as hell!
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  2. #47
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarFarr View Post
    I am a staunch DC fan, but having lived abroad for work(various european countries) situation is even worse for DC. Go into most comic shops you will find 60%Marvel 40% DC and I am being generous in these numbers. Comics arrive late even months after. Marvel is all over when it comes to merchandise and hardly any DC. They are light years ahead not just in comics. Even when DC movies come out they hardly put merchandise for these movies and when they do, its small stuff. Once I asked a comic shop owner about that, the answer was that they get some demand but supply is few and usually takes time to arrive, by then customers lose interest.
    It's the same here in Australia. Marvel Legends figures can be found everywhere. Target, Big W, K-Mart.
    DC stuff? You're lucky to find anything on the shelves, and if you do it's far inferior to anything Marvel has on the same shelf.
    The comic stuff has sorted itself out here. DC is back to arriving weekly and on time.
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  3. #48
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    It's the same here in Australia. Marvel Legends figures can be found everywhere. Target, Big W, K-Mart.
    DC stuff? You're lucky to find anything on the shelves, and if you do it's far inferior to anything Marvel has on the same shelf.
    The comic stuff has sorted itself out here. DC is back to arriving weekly and on time.
    recently I learned that in Brazil and its a big market there for comics with a large fanbase, books arrive even 5 months after, their only option is digital. As for merchandise totally agree, inferior to anything marvel and its just batman, occasionally some superman and thats all folks.
    Dc is not even close and its a pity they have some awesome characters

  4. #49
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the COMET View Post
    Yes, i've noticed for some time now that there's a tedency here for saying that Marvel outsells DC, always did and always will. Not to mention inumerous threads titles like "Why DC can't be like Marvel?". "Why Marvel is so much better than DC?". "Why Marvel is so great and DC so bad?". And so on..
    A lie told a million times becames the truth, some say.
    Except it isn't a lie. Marvel outsold DC on average during the Bronze Age, the DCU, the New 52, and still does today. I wish DC were more competitive sales-wise, but except when I was a toddler back in the mid-'60s. they have been consistently in second place.
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  5. #50
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    I found this page while googling: https://www.comichron.com/vitalstatistics/alltime.html

    It has some charts with Marvel and DC. And while Marvel is usually ahead its not like it is some blow out. When you factor in stronger DC sales in collected editions I wouldn't be surprised if DC actually comes out slightly ahead.

  6. #51
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I found this page while googling: https://www.comichron.com/vitalstatistics/alltime.html

    It has some charts with Marvel and DC. And while Marvel is usually ahead its not like it is some blow out. When you factor in stronger DC sales in collected editions I wouldn't be surprised if DC actually comes out slightly ahead.
    But with exception of Rebirth launch and New 52 the divide is still big even in trades. Those charts point out that the heights reached by Marvel DC never even came close to achieve.
    Besides we have no idea of the foreign market. I worked in Uk, Italy, Germany and Spain over the years and I can relate that the divide is even bigger from what I saw. Marvel all over the place from comics to merchandise. Married Guy confirmed that its the same in Australia. Its not just comics its anything related to Dc vs Marvel characters.
    I believe Marvel has a war machine for marketing that gives them an advantage in everything. Even when it comes to movies they have such polished marketing machine that now whatever they release is a success. Take Captain Marvel, only fans in the US know about the character, overseas practically unknown, it registered a billion BO. While DC with Harley Quinn(very popular in US but not overseas) In BOP just 200 million BO.

  7. #52
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    Marvel has a stronger merchandise presence than DC is because of Disney.

    To give you an example to prove the point, Square Enix (a gaming company) make a lot of Kingdom hearts merchandise compared to Final Fantasy despite the latter being bigger and more successful franchise and the reason for this is because the former is connected to Disney.
    Last edited by Rise; 01-18-2021 at 08:48 AM.
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  8. #53
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    Marvel has a stronger merchandise presence than DC is because of Disney.

    To give you an example to prove the point, Square Enix (a gaming company) make a lot of Kingdom hearts merchandise compared to Final Fantasy despite the later being bigger and more successful franchise and the reason for this is because the former is connected to Disney.
    It has been even before disney bought marvel that they have a better merchandise presence. DC's only notable merchandise is and was about batman and occasionally superman. I worked in Uk between 2005 - 2008 therefore before Disney buying Marvel and you could find them all over the place, while DC few to none.

  9. #54
    Mighty Member Rise's Avatar
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    Well, Batman and Superman were always far more popular (except for Spider-Man who was a little behind) than any Marvel character until MCU happened and especially after Disney had the rights. There were barely any merch for Marvel characters (again with exception of Spider-Man) before Disney started literally pushing them everywhere.
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  10. #55
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    Well, Batman and Superman were always far more popular (except for Spider-Man who was a little behind) than any Marvel character until MCU happened and especially after Disney had the rights. There were barely any merch for Marvel characters (again with exception of Spider-Man) before Disney started literally pushing them everywhere.
    I believe Batman and Superman are still more popular, but Marvel is damn good at compensating that popularity. But you don't find lots of stuff about them(bat&sup) compared to what Marvel puts out. DC now only markets mostly batman, Superman comes a very distant second.
    Its not since Disney, even before, As a DC fan I saw this overseas with my own eyes.
    DC merchandise is run by amateurs, no attempt is done to improve it. They have the means they just don't have the energy and enthusiasm. They don't even try.

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    This is getting outside of the scope of selling comics I think. Hasbro is basically the Disney of toy companies. Clearly recent Marvel tactics are heavily influenced by its parent company and biggest partner.

  12. #57
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    This is getting outside of the scope of selling comics I think. Hasbro is basically the Disney of toy companies. Clearly recent Marvel tactics are heavily influenced by its parent company and biggest partner.
    Obviously Disney is a big push, but what applies to merchandise of characters can be applied to comics as well. We can see with our own eyes the state of DC, its reducing its publishing line. No marketing of comic books other than Batman, not there is much left that is not Batman related. DC ending in the hands of AT&T was all that was needed.
    DC has no overall strategy that includes comics as well, just staying in its comfort zone no attempt to improve and push other characters. I heard arguments by fans but DC does collectible statues of "some" of these characters, Yeah some $700 statue is for hardcore fans and not for a parent that has to make ends meet every month. Meanwhile Marvel continues to attract fans worldwide, has more sales in comics and other stuff.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarFarr View Post
    Obviously Disney is a big push, but what applies to merchandise of characters can be applied to comics as well. We can see with our own eyes the state of DC, its reducing its publishing line. No marketing of comic books other than Batman, not there is much left that is not Batman related. DC ending in the hands of AT&T was all that was needed.
    DC has no overall strategy that includes comics as well, just staying in its comfort zone no attempt to improve and push other characters. I heard arguments by fans but DC does collectible statues of "some" of these characters, Yeah some $700 statue is for hardcore fans and not for a parent that has to make ends meet every month. Meanwhile Marvel continues to attract fans worldwide, has more sales in comics and other stuff.
    Toys sales have nothing to do with the comics sales and MCU recognizability is not causing any noticeable increase in comic book sales either.

    There are Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Justice League, Teen Titans, Suicide Squad, Swamp Thing, Crime Syndicate, Green Lantern comics launching in the first two months, and more offered like Nightwing and Catwoman that people who might not like Batman can still enjoy. And this is not to mention the ongoing Black Label titles and non DCU content like American Vampire they are publishing as well. There is a Sensational Wonder Woman digital first seeing print because of a recent push of that character. Beyond the direct market DC has pushed a variety of YA and kids graphic novels.

    The expansion to other markets and the slow rollout in the direct market demonstrates DC does have a strategy, one which I and others have repeatedly pointed out.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    Well, Batman and Superman were always far more popular (except for Spider-Man who was a little behind) than any Marvel character until MCU happened and especially after Disney had the rights. There were barely any merch for Marvel characters (again with exception of Spider-Man) before Disney started literally pushing them everywhere.
    What is true for one city is NOT true for every city.

    Marvel stuff was around way before Disney bought them. The reasons you saw more DC was thanks to Super Friends and the various DC shows that were around in the 70s-90s.

    Also understand some stores had deals with DC or Marvel for their stuff to be somewhat exclusive there. If you had a Toys R Us-you had better access to Marvel stuff versus Target or Wal-Mart. Who had access to DC stuff.

    With online-it's a bigger issue.

    There is Marvel stuff I can NOT waltz into a Target and buy. Dc? If we are talking toys or dvds-No issue at all. Raven & Beast Boy's OGNs-FORGET IT. Online only.

    When you factor in stronger DC sales in collected editions I wouldn't be surprised if DC actually comes out slightly ahead.
    You can thank books like Hellblazer and Sandman for that. DC to a POINT has been willing to toss whatever into a trade and pray that it sells. With a few exceptions like Green Lantern Mosaic and most of Action Comics Weekly.


    I wish DC were more competitive sales-wise, but except when I was a toddler back in the mid-'60s. they have been consistently in second place.
    If all you do is toss out Batman and Superman while Marvel will toss out anything (well NOW they do) that happens.
    Batman and Superman can not be EVERYBODY. The audience that goes after Moon Girl or Ms Marvel will probably not bother with Batman.

    If I get asked at school to recommend a black lead book (trade)-
    DC-Naomi, Signal, Cyborg, Michael Cray, Batwing, Far Sector, Black Lightning Cold Hands, Mr Terrific, & Aqualad OGN. 15 trades?
    Marvel-Moon Girl, Falcon, Luke Cage, Miles Morales, Black Panther, Mosaic, Shuri, Riri, Prowler, Nick Fury, World of Wakanda, BP & The Crew, BP Rise and All New Inhumans vol 2 (Flint). Moon Girl by herself is 9 trades. 20+ trades.

    I saw THIS at a store-a woman came in and asked female lead books. Not ONE Dc book was mentioned. Betty & Veronica got mentioned. As did Tomb Raider, Red Sonja and Motor Crush.

    And WW, Catwoman, Supergirl & Harley were in STOCK. So you have store bias to deal with as well.

  15. #60
    Incredible Member MarFarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    Toys sales have nothing to do with the comics sales and MCU recognizability is not causing any noticeable increase in comic book sales either.

    There are Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Justice League, Teen Titans, Suicide Squad, Swamp Thing, Crime Syndicate, Green Lantern comics launching in the first two months, and more offered like Nightwing and Catwoman that people who might not like Batman can still enjoy. And this is not to mention the ongoing Black Label titles and non DCU content like American Vampire they are publishing as well. There is a Sensational Wonder Woman digital first seeing print because of a recent push of that character. Beyond the direct market DC has pushed a variety of YA and kids graphic novels.

    The expansion to other markets and the slow rollout in the direct market demonstrates DC does have a strategy, one which I and others have repeatedly pointed out.
    DC has reduced its publishing line and its a fact, the slow rollout? yes there are gonna be SOME new books but probably all Bat related.

    With all editors they let go, you can't have many more books. This clinching at slow rollout is based on what Jim Lee said, but what fans forget is that he also said we are gonna have smaller line. Since when Lee said that, further layoffs took place.

    There is no strategy except one reducing the line with titles they hope they can make profits or break even, because certain creative teams get paid more than other and therefore sales must be higher. Besides any possible future books will be useless if DC keeps not marketing them.
    The only strategy in that regard they have, is to send some advanced copy to some people who do reviews on twitter and they hope thats enough. Usually these reviews get nearly full marks and reading them makes you think that they must be near perfect issues. Never a criticism not even a constructive one. Well not all readers and potential ones are on twitter.

    If we speak about overseas DC leaves even more to be desired. And that market accounts for revenue as well. Again Marvel outsells them probably at higher numbers. Overseas I can vouch for that having seen it with my own eyes, there is no comparison at all level. SO no DC is not expanding, simply retreating to a comfort zone provided by batman.

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