Why do people dislike Joker (2019)?

[Chris Lang]

I would love to see a Selina Kyle movie done in Joker’s style. Perhaps a bit lighter in tone but she’d be a better figure to talk about class divisions than the Joker ever would. The problem (among many) with the Berry movie was that they made her way too much like a hero and took far too much elements from the Pfeiffer version, due to this being a left over from an earlier draft for a solo movie based on that interpretation. I mean, Ed Brubaker gave you the perfect blueprint for a Kyle movie. His Gotham looked a lot like the Gotham from this movie.

But have a woman direct it.

The graphic novel Selina's Big Score is a good blueprint for a dark caper movie featuring Selina Kyle. Aside from Selina and Slam Bradley, it has a cast of characters who were created for it, and most of them end up dying. It's pretty self-contained and satisfying.

[Chris Lang]

I don't really care that Joker borrows from films such as Fight Club, Taxi Driver, or King of Comedy. It is fine for a film to heavily take inspiration from something as long as it stands on it's own, which I think Joker does.

The problem I have with Joker is plot contrivances. What are the odds that this nobody of a person would not only start a populist revolution in Gotham and become a talk show sensation?

I find it very endearing, but I would only give Joker a 6/10. I'd put it in a list of captivating failures.

Makes a good double feature with Catwoman 2004.

Arthur Fleck started that populist revolution by accident. All he was doing was getting revenge on three people who attacked him on a subway.

Joker is a better movie than the Catwoman 2004 movie, certainly. Though it's certainly flawed. It tries to make a statement about how society treats (or rather, mistreats) the mentally ill, but I'm not entirely sure how successful it is at making that statement.

It might have been better without the shoehorned in Batman references. The Waynes could have been left out entirely, replaced by some other rich family, without losing anything.

[Kirby101]

Arthur Fleck started that populist revolution by accident. All he was doing was getting revenge on three people who attacked him on a subway.

Joker is a better movie than the Catwoman 2004 movie, certainly. Though it's certainly flawed. It tries to make a statement about how society treats (or rather, mistreats) the mentally ill, but I'm not entirely sure how successful it is at making that statement.

It might have been better without the shoehorned in Batman references. The Waynes could have been left out entirely, replaced by some other rich family, without losing anything.

That was one of my complaints. They could have called it The Clown, left out all references to DC Comics, and it's the same movie.

[numberthirty]

Arthur Fleck started that populist revolution by accident. All he was doing was getting revenge on three people who attacked him on a subway.

Joker is a better movie than the Catwoman 2004 movie, certainly. Though it's certainly flawed. It tries to make a statement about how society treats (or rather, mistreats) the mentally ill, but I'm not entirely sure how successful it is at making that statement.

It might have been better without the shoehorned in Batman references. The Waynes could have been left out entirely, replaced by some other rich family, without losing anything.

That was one of my complaints. They could have called it The Clown, left out all references to DC Comics, and it's the same movie.

Politely...

You've got ignore an entire aspect of the film to think that "The Clown..." could just drop into what they were going for artistically.

[ed2962]

The graphic novel Selina's Big Score is a good blueprint for a dark caper movie featuring Selina Kyle. Aside from Selina and Slam Bradley, it has a cast of characters who were created for it, and most of them end up dying. It's pretty self-contained and satisfying.

Great example! And it's paced like an old fashioned heist film.

[Kirby101]

Politely...

You've got ignore an entire aspect of the film to think that "The Clown..." could just drop into what they were going for artistically.

You could do the same movie with the same characters and not have it be called Joker or anything to do with Batman. Since it was more Taxi Driver and King of Comedy than anything DC.
What they were going for artistically was Scorsese.

[numberthirty]

You could do the same movie with the same characters and not have it be called Joker or anything to do with Batman. Since it was more Taxi Driver and King of Comedy than anything DC.
What they were going for artistically was Scorsese.

Politely...

Negative.

There was an incredibly specific aspect of this film that straight up necessitated the specific IP that they were using.

Without trying to be argumentative, did you much of the press that the director did in the run up to the release?

[j9ac9k]

Arthur Fleck started that populist revolution by accident. All he was doing was getting revenge on three people who attacked him on a subway.

I just got it! This movie is the anti-"Hero at Large!" (the John Ritter movie...)

Politely...
Negative.
There was an incredibly specific aspect of this film that straight up necessitated the specific IP that they were using.
Without trying to be argumentative, did you much of the press that the director did in the run up to the release?

Aside from him feeling sorry for himself that he can't write comedies without offending someone, I know I haven't. Would you mind boiling down why this movie had to be about DC's Joker?

Personally, I want to see a followup movie where we see Batman's rise in this particular world.

[numberthirty]

...

Aside from him feeling sorry for himself that he can't write comedies without offending someone, I know I haven't. Would you mind boiling down why this movie had to be about DC's Joker?

Personally, I want to see a followup movie where we see Batman's rise in this particular world.

While I know that you aren't supposed to answer a question with another question...

The actual thing that the film is about...

What is it?

[inisideguy]

It was a R rated movie that made a Billion dollars worldwide with a movie about a villain clown. Which is remarkable. The profit margin on this movie must be close to an all time record. There are always people who don't like a movie. No matter how good or successful it is.

[GozertheGozarian]

It was a R rated movie that made a Billion dollars worldwide with a movie about a villain clown. Which is remarkable. The profit margin on this movie must be close to an all time record. There are always people who don't like a movie. No matter how good or successful it is.

Not that remarkable since Deadpool did the same thing several years earlier.

[numberthirty]

Not that remarkable since Deadpool did the same thing several years earlier.

Not really.

With Deadpool?

Your pretty squarely in "Anti-Hero..." territory.

He isn't fundamentally the villain in that film.

[inisideguy]

Not that remarkable since Deadpool did the same thing several years earlier.

Sorry no. Deadpool didn't make a billion. It made 783 million. Joker is the highest grossing R rated movie of all time.

[titanfan]

It was a R rated movie that made a Billion dollars worldwide with a movie about a villain clown. Which is remarkable. The profit margin on this movie must be close to an all time record. There are always people who don't like a movie. No matter how good or successful it is.

At the time, they were saying it was probably the most profitable movie of all time, but we probably won't ever know for sure because studios do weird things with the books.

[inisideguy]

At the time, they were saying it was probably the most profitable movie of all time, but we probably won't ever know for sure because studios do weird things with the books.

Yea I don't know especially with percentages factored in and stuff but it has to be close to the top.