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  1. #16
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Disliking a film because it borrows elements from previous works, even heavily, is pretty cringe. There is no way you can be consistent with that opinion, like, if you dislike Joker for copying elements from a previous creator....you can't like something like Star Wars, you just can't.

    I would also say that as reviewer, if you gave Joker a negative review because its too much like Taxi Driver...you are 100% gatekeeping and have failed in your career. Most people haven't seen Taxi Driver, but they might watch it if they watched the Joker and liked it. I started watching Scorsese films as a preamble to Joker and I'm sure others did as well. Not to mention Joker is still a different film from Taxi Driver...like a lot.
    #InGunnITrust, #ZackSnyderistheBlueprint, #ReleasetheAyerCut

  2. #17
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    I got my ticket's worth as far as my own expectations and how the movie was marketed, and none of the packed theaters I watched it in (for what eventually grossed a billion bucks) were in any way a peanut gallery, so my answer to this thread is...

  3. #18
    Invincible Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildling View Post
    I got my ticket's worth as far as my own expectations and how the movie was marketed, and none of the packed theaters I watched it in (for what eventually grossed a billion bucks) were in any way a peanut gallery, so my answer to this thread is...
    Because, it's what we do. Are you familiar with the internet?
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Because, it's what we do. Are you familiar with the internet?
    Unfortunately yes.

  5. #20
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Disliking a film because it borrows elements from previous works, even heavily, is pretty cringe. There is no way you can be consistent with that opinion, like, if you dislike Joker for copying elements from a previous creator....you can't like something like Star Wars, you just can't.

    I would also say that as reviewer, if you gave Joker a negative review because its too much like Taxi Driver...you are 100% gatekeeping and have failed in your career. Most people haven't seen Taxi Driver, but they might watch it if they watched the Joker and liked it. I started watching Scorsese films as a preamble to Joker and I'm sure others did as well. Not to mention Joker is still a different film from Taxi Driver...like a lot.
    I'm sorry. That's absolute BS.

    Of course you can not like something because it's too similar to something else. A good movie can borrow aspects and make them their own (or at least distract you from noticing them) but if your watching a movie, and all you can think about is how it's so much like a different movie, then it obviously hasn't managed to truly capture you attention.

  6. #21
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    Like others said already there's was no need to slap the Joker name to it, it was a retread of Taxi Driver and while a fine film and Joaquin gave a good performance I have no desire of repeated viewings.

  7. #22
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    Would the Joker have been so commercially successful if they just re-named it Taxi Driver? Joker in name only. Should have showed him killing his neighbor and daughter. Some wanton violence against innocent people like in the comics.

  8. #23
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I'm sorry. That's absolute BS.

    Of course you can not like something because it's too similar to something else. A good movie can borrow aspects and make them their own (or at least distract you from noticing them) but if your watching a movie, and all you can think about is how it's so much like a different movie, then it obviously hasn't managed to truly capture you attention.
    I'm of the philosophy you can like or dislike anything for any reason. My contention is that these types homages aren't inherently bad. A lot of people when they notice them behave like they just uncovered a deception, like the director was trying to do a plagiarism and so they feel cheated. You say these homages pulled you out of the movie, but if you were thinking about the movie how were you pulled out from it? Not to mention I do think people overstate the similarities between Taxi Driver and Joker because the creators of the latter openly wore their influences on their sleeve.

    I would also say these homages are far more common than people realize, like George Lucas famously copy + p a lot of material from different movies, but they were obscurer movies so I guess he gets a pass?

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  9. #24
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    I should also add, the line that cbm 'should be faithful to the source material' is basically meaningless and is another statement that is never applied consistently. The basic rule on how this form of reasoning goes is like this;

    >> Do I like this cbm? Yes, therefore it is faithful to the source material
    >> Do I dislike this cbm? No, therefore it is not faithful to the source material

    Like, to say Joker isn't faithful to the comics, but Heath Ledger's Joker somehow is...
    #InGunnITrust, #ZackSnyderistheBlueprint, #ReleasetheAyerCut

  10. #25
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    Neil Gaiman once said that when people say they hate something, they're usually right but when they try to explain why they hate something, they're usually wrong. The reaction to Joker is a perfectly good example of this. Claiming it isn't a comic book movie because it doesn't follow arbitrary rules for what a comic book movie is like is intellectually dishonest and calling it out for lack of accuracy to the source material is not only laughably hypocritical* but ignores the fact that it adapts a character who coined the term "multiple choice past".

    *These same people have no issue with other comic book movies taking just as many if not more divergences from the source material as long as it fits a tone they enjoy.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farealmer View Post
    Two issues I have with this.
    1. This was not a comic book movie. It was a different kind of film with some comic elements vestigially tacked on. So those that liked it saying they liked comic book movies might just want to admit they don't like or are tired of comic book movies.
    Or those saying it isn't a comic book movie can just admit they like only one type of comic book movie.

    Disliking a film is one thing. Making up falsehoods about the real reason people who liked what you hated is just being an ******* fanboy.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Or those saying it isn't a comic book movie can just admit they like only one type of comic book movie.

    Disliking a film is one thing. Making up falsehoods about the real reason people who liked what you hated is just being an ******* fanboy.
    Yet I am not the one calling people names in this.

    I like many kinds of comic books and films. But this didn't need to be called Joker. Multiple choice past isn't free reign to make it Joker in name only.

    I also wouldn't say I hated it. It was fun enough for a one time watch. I just don't like people using it as an excuse to crap on other comic book movies. Nor acting like comic movies have forever changed because of it and now comic films, especially R rated ones, must be rated or compared to it.
    Last edited by Farealmer; 01-17-2021 at 12:55 AM.

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    I don't really care that Joker borrows from films such as Fight Club, Taxi Driver, or King of Comedy. It is fine for a film to heavily take inspiration from something as long as it stands on it's own, which I think Joker does.

    The problem I have with Joker is plot contrivances. What are the odds that this nobody of a person would not only start a populist revolution in Gotham and become a talk show sensation?

    I find it very endearing, but I would only give Joker a 6/10. I'd put it in a list of captivating failures.

    Makes a good double feature with Catwoman 2004.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farealmer View Post
    Yet I am not the one calling people names in this.

    I like many kinds of comic books and films.
    So do most of the people who liked Joker.


    But this didn't need to be called Joker.
    Under which law?


    Multiple choice past isn't free reign to make it Joker in name only.
    It's a movie about a guy who goes mad and starts dressing like a clown while committing crimes. That's as Joker as you can get.

    I just don't like people using it as an excuse to crap on other comic book movies. Nor acting like comic movies have forever changed because of it and now comic films, especially R rated ones, must be rated or compared to it.
    More often than not, the opposite happens. There are way more people using other comic book movies to crap on Joker and claiming there shouldn't be movies like it. It's not enough for people who hate this movie or just have a neutral reaction to just say their peace and move on. They write entire dissertations about how it isn't a true comic book movie because of some rule they made up and only succeeded because it borrowed from other stories as if superheroes haven't been doing the same thing since inception.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    I don't really care that Joker borrows from films such as Fight Club, Taxi Driver, or King of Comedy. It is fine for a film to heavily take inspiration from something as long as it stands on it's own, which I think Joker does.

    The problem I have with Joker is plot contrivances. What are the odds that this nobody of a person would not only start a populist revolution in Gotham and become a talk show sensation?

    I find it very endearing, but I would only give Joker a 6/10. I'd put it in a list of captivating failures.

    Makes a good double feature with Catwoman 2004.
    Stranger things have happened in real life. Plenty of movements were started by "nobodies".

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