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  1. #31
    Incredible Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thanatoskun View Post
    Greg Rucka
    That's like objectively wrong.

  2. #32
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    I changed my mind, Samuel R. Delaney is the worst.
    I love this crazy stuff.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

    "You can't make an omelet without breaking a few necks." - Wonder Woman, probably

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahina View Post
    How do you feel about Robert Kanigher giving Diana a human father and gifted with powers from Aphrodite, Athena, Hercules, and Hermes?
    Diana doesn't need a father

  4. #34
    Fantastic Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    My top 10 worst Wonder Woman writers:


    1.) Brian Azzarello
    2.) Brian Azzarello
    3.) Brian Azzarello
    4.) Brian Azzarello
    5.) Brian Azzarello
    6.) Brian Azzarello
    7.) Brian Azzarello
    8.) Brian Azzarello
    9.) Brian Azzarello
    10.) Brian Azzarello


    The stink he left on Wonder Woman, the Amazons, Orion, and the Greek Gods still lingers to this day. He tarnished these characters in ways that no other creator has. Diana crunching testicles, the Amazons being revealed as man-killing, baby-trading sex pirates, Orion being portrayed as a chauvinist pig, and the Greek Gods all having their own deviant sides were disgusting stains on Wonder Woman's mythos.
    The only thing I liked from his writing was Diana being Zeus daughter. I know that change to her origin was kind of mixed but I (ironically) felt it humanized her a bit more. But yeah, he made the Amazons terrible...they're supposed to be a society for humanity to work towards, not run from.
    I didn't mind how he wrote the Gods, they are super petty in real-world mythology and I like when comic book writers remember that.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    I changed my mind, Samuel R. Delaney is the worst.
    Ah, that crappy moment. The one in which Diana somehow forgets that women were all she knew most of her life and that women made her great.

    This is the first time that I've realized Diana's line ends with a question mark, though. She's literally asking if she doesn't like women. What's up with that?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by thanatoskun View Post
    Greg Rucka
    Greg wasn't the worst writer for me. But i wouldn't be honest if i didn't say i wasn't a fan of his run.

  7. #37

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    Brian Azzarello:
    Daddy-Zeus, rapist Amazons, clearly more interested in the gods and other characters than Diana herself...just a wrong-headed approach to her mythos. Luckily, most of it has been retconned away, but some things still linger.

    James Robinson:
    Characterizing Diana as a dumb brute, shilling Jason and Zeus, complete botching of Grail and the concept of "dark" gods invading. The fact that he totally misread the No Man's Land scene from the movie (interpreting it as Diana's "lust for battle" instead of just wanting to help people as she plainly says multiple times) illustrates how off the mark he was with her character.
    The nadir for me was when she needed information from Lashina and Mad Harriet, threw the Lasso aside, said she'd rather beat it out of them...and lost. Like...aside from how out of character that is for her...was he deliberately trying to make Diana look as stupid as possible there?

    Tom Taylor:
    Injustice is, without a doubt, one of the most odious interpretations of Diana's character and there's only so much blame you can lay at Netherrealm Studios. Then there's the slap in the face that was DCeased. By the way, not enough is said about how awfully he portrays Diana's power/skill level. He'll hype her up a good deal, but when it comes down to it, he has her get dropped in embarrassing fashion (or make a fool of herself like accidentally killing Huntress in Injustice). The greatest warrior in the DC universe...murdered with one punch. A deadly unstoppable zombie...just teach Mary Marvel a few months of martial arts and she's done.
    In Taylor's hands, Diana's a big fish in a small pond who gets quickly put in her place when she dares challenge the heavy hitters.

    Peter Tomasi:
    I have to include him for this page alone...

    Wonder Woman should never, ever, EVER need ANYONE to tell her to protect people.

    Bruce Timm (and the general JLU crew):
    No idea what to do with her and couldn't have cared less. So we got saddled with a stuck-up snob who only lightened up when she started crushing on the almighty Bat. No attention or care paid to her mythos, rogues, or even her personal life. Did this Diana even have a life outside the Justice League? No wonder no one cared when she went off to live with the Justice Lords in Batman Beyond.

    Frank Miller:
    His take on Diana probably too over-the-top to be taken seriously, but I include because he seems to have a distressing fascination with the idea that she can only love a man (usually Superman) who "conquers" her. He clearly thinks it's empowering (I guess) but it's really gross.

    Joss Whedon:
    We got a taste of his take on Diana with Justice League...which wasn't great. She's rendered obsolete by Superman, is the humorless den mother for Aquaman to ogle and Flash to fall into her cleavage, and--of course--flirting with Batman.
    Maybe it shouldn't count since it didn't get made, but then there's the draft of his Wonder Woman script and...wow, we really dodged a bullet. Unless you would've liked her big screen debut to consist of Steve smugly condescending her and at times outright berating her when she screws up (by not listening to him). Oh yeah, and there's the "erotic Amazon dance" she would've used to distract the bad guys.

    Zack Snyder:
    Honestly, who's surprised this guy is in love with the vision of Wonder Woman as a "hardcore warrior" who collects severed heads as trophies? There's also the "walked away from mankind a hundred years ago" corner her painted Patty Jenkins into, so we got a Diana who's been around since World War I, but no one knows about her because she was supposed to give up on humanity in her first frickin' movie. She's still going to get her ass handed to her by Superman, but apparently chopping Steppenwolf's head off (after Superman does all the work) will make up for that. And slaughtered Amazons.

    Geoff Johns:
    As far back as 2003...maybe earlier...I thought Johns couldn't write Wonder Woman properly to save his life. Consistently joyless, nagging, aloof, stuck-up, and at times hypocritical. Often banging on how she isn't human and therefore doesn't understand humans. Took all the nuance and context Greg Rucka crafted for Diana's position on killing bad guys and flushed it down the toilet, reducing her to "the one that chops heads off." Then the New 52 hit and we got his Justice League where she was also an angry brute who responds to every situation by hitting it with a sword in addition to a stuck-up, aloof snob.
    The fact that Geoff Johns was DC's golden boy and had such a hand in the company's direction with crossovers and events and the multiple animated movies based on his works (specifically Flashpoint and his New 52 Justice League run...so many fans out there know Wonder Woman best based on his writing and that's mortifying. The long-term damage he's inflicted on Diana is immeasurable and we're going to be feeling it for years.
    "Never place your trust in us. We're only human. Inevitably, we will disappoint you."


  8. #38
    Incredible Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    This is the first time that I've realized Diana's line ends with a question mark, though. She's literally asking if she doesn't like women. What's up with that?
    She's questioning the nonsensical words the writer is making her say.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    Brian Azzarello:
    Daddy-Zeus, rapist Amazons, clearly more interested in the gods and other characters than Diana herself...just a wrong-headed approach to her mythos. Luckily, most of it has been retconned away, but some things still linger.

    James Robinson:
    Characterizing Diana as a dumb brute, shilling Jason and Zeus, complete botching of Grail and the concept of "dark" gods invading. The fact that he totally misread the No Man's Land scene from the movie (interpreting it as Diana's "lust for battle" instead of just wanting to help people as she plainly says multiple times) illustrates how off the mark he was with her character.
    The nadir for me was when she needed information from Lashina and Mad Harriet, threw the Lasso aside, said she'd rather beat it out of them...and lost. Like...aside from how out of character that is for her...was he deliberately trying to make Diana look as stupid as possible there?

    Tom Taylor:
    Injustice is, without a doubt, one of the most odious interpretations of Diana's character and there's only so much blame you can lay at Netherrealm Studios. Then there's the slap in the face that was DCeased. By the way, not enough is said about how awfully he portrays Diana's power/skill level. He'll hype her up a good deal, but when it comes down to it, he has her get dropped in embarrassing fashion (or make a fool of herself like accidentally killing Huntress in Injustice). The greatest warrior in the DC universe...murdered with one punch. A deadly unstoppable zombie...just teach Mary Marvel a few months of martial arts and she's done.
    In Taylor's hands, Diana's a big fish in a small pond who gets quickly put in her place when she dares challenge the heavy hitters.

    Peter Tomasi:
    I have to include him for this page alone...

    Wonder Woman should never, ever, EVER need ANYONE to tell her to protect people.

    Bruce Timm (and the general JLU crew):
    No idea what to do with her and couldn't have cared less. So we got saddled with a stuck-up snob who only lightened up when she started crushing on the almighty Bat. No attention or care paid to her mythos, rogues, or even her personal life. Did this Diana even have a life outside the Justice League? No wonder no one cared when she went off to live with the Justice Lords in Batman Beyond.

    Frank Miller:
    His take on Diana probably too over-the-top to be taken seriously, but I include because he seems to have a distressing fascination with the idea that she can only love a man (usually Superman) who "conquers" her. He clearly thinks it's empowering (I guess) but it's really gross.

    Joss Whedon:
    We got a taste of his take on Diana with Justice League...which wasn't great. She's rendered obsolete by Superman, is the humorless den mother for Aquaman to ogle and Flash to fall into her cleavage, and--of course--flirting with Batman.
    Maybe it shouldn't count since it didn't get made, but then there's the draft of his Wonder Woman script and...wow, we really dodged a bullet. Unless you would've liked her big screen debut to consist of Steve smugly condescending her and at times outright berating her when she screws up (by not listening to him). Oh yeah, and there's the "erotic Amazon dance" she would've used to distract the bad guys.

    Zack Snyder:
    Honestly, who's surprised this guy is in love with the vision of Wonder Woman as a "hardcore warrior" who collects severed heads as trophies? There's also the "walked away from mankind a hundred years ago" corner her painted Patty Jenkins into, so we got a Diana who's been around since World War I, but no one knows about her because she was supposed to give up on humanity in her first frickin' movie. She's still going to get her ass handed to her by Superman, but apparently chopping Steppenwolf's head off (after Superman does all the work) will make up for that. And slaughtered Amazons.

    Geoff Johns:
    As far back as 2003...maybe earlier...I thought Johns couldn't write Wonder Woman properly to save his life. Consistently joyless, nagging, aloof, stuck-up, and at times hypocritical. Often banging on how she isn't human and therefore doesn't understand humans. Took all the nuance and context Greg Rucka crafted for Diana's position on killing bad guys and flushed it down the toilet, reducing her to "the one that chops heads off." Then the New 52 hit and we got his Justice League where she was also an angry brute who responds to every situation by hitting it with a sword in addition to a stuck-up, aloof snob.
    The fact that Geoff Johns was DC's golden boy and had such a hand in the company's direction with crossovers and events and the multiple animated movies based on his works (specifically Flashpoint and his New 52 Justice League run...so many fans out there know Wonder Woman best based on his writing and that's mortifying. The long-term damage he's inflicted on Diana is immeasurable and we're going to be feeling it for years.
    The collecting heads thing was an idea Snyder proposed and then dropped like plenty of people do. Having Diana grow disillusioned after all the horror and trauma she'd witnessed wasn't inherently a bad idea. And it isn't like he wiped out all the Amazons. Every WW since as far back as Perez at least had some Amazons die.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    For every time Azz wrote Diana saying "I love everyone" he shadowed it with her doing something disgusting like killing her mentor. Before anyone says she "had" to kill Ares, no she didn't. If she HAD to kill anyone that day, she should have killed the First Born, not the guy who was like a 2nd father to her. She took the easy way out.
    The First Born was about to kill Ares himself and Diana had already tried killing the First Born. She stabbed both of them with a spear and the First Born survived while Ares didn't. She had either the choice of letting the First Born kill Ares and claim the position of God of War or kill Ares and keep that title out of the First Born's hands.

    As for her crushing Orion's testicles, you conveniently ignore that he had been sexually harassing her throughout the book and even continued doing after that moment. I don't like Azzarello's run anymore than you but Diana's reactions in these two moments are not the real issue here.

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The First Born was about to kill Ares himself and Diana had already tried killing the First Born. She stabbed both of them with a spear and the First Born survived while Ares didn't. She had either the choice of letting the First Born kill Ares and claim the position of God of War or kill Ares and keep that title out of the First Born's hands.

    As for her crushing Orion's testicles, you conveniently ignore that he had been sexually harassing her throughout the book and even continued doing after that moment. I don't like Azzarello's run anymore than you but Diana's reactions in these two moments are not the real issue here.

    My thoughts are that the First Born only survived the attach you mentioned because Ares took the brunt of the blow. I don't care if Orion had been a pervert towards Diana, two wrongs don't make a right especially for someone who usually preaches love over war. Her response was over the top and crude.
    Currently Reading: Crime Syndicate, Justice League, Sensational Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad, The Other History of the DC Universe, & Wonder Woman.

  12. #42
    Lover of Wonderful Things FutureWonder's Avatar
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    For me: Azzarello, Jimenez, and Kanigher.

    ETA: Robinson completely misunderstanding Diana's motivation in the No Man's Land scene of the movie is now making me understand the overall awfulness of his Wonder Woman tales.
    Last edited by FutureWonder; 01-20-2021 at 08:21 AM.

  13. #43
    Spectacular Member rayray1127's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    Brian Azzarello:
    Daddy-Zeus, rapist Amazons, clearly more interested in the gods and other characters than Diana herself...just a wrong-headed approach to her mythos. Luckily, most of it has been retconned away, but some things still linger.

    James Robinson:
    Characterizing Diana as a dumb brute, shilling Jason and Zeus, complete botching of Grail and the concept of "dark" gods invading. The fact that he totally misread the No Man's Land scene from the movie (interpreting it as Diana's "lust for battle" instead of just wanting to help people as she plainly says multiple times) illustrates how off the mark he was with her character.
    The nadir for me was when she needed information from Lashina and Mad Harriet, threw the Lasso aside, said she'd rather beat it out of them...and lost. Like...aside from how out of character that is for her...was he deliberately trying to make Diana look as stupid as possible there?

    Tom Taylor:
    Injustice is, without a doubt, one of the most odious interpretations of Diana's character and there's only so much blame you can lay at Netherrealm Studios. Then there's the slap in the face that was DCeased. By the way, not enough is said about how awfully he portrays Diana's power/skill level. He'll hype her up a good deal, but when it comes down to it, he has her get dropped in embarrassing fashion (or make a fool of herself like accidentally killing Huntress in Injustice). The greatest warrior in the DC universe...murdered with one punch. A deadly unstoppable zombie...just teach Mary Marvel a few months of martial arts and she's done.
    In Taylor's hands, Diana's a big fish in a small pond who gets quickly put in her place when she dares challenge the heavy hitters.

    Peter Tomasi:
    I have to include him for this page alone...

    Wonder Woman should never, ever, EVER need ANYONE to tell her to protect people.

    Bruce Timm (and the general JLU crew):
    No idea what to do with her and couldn't have cared less. So we got saddled with a stuck-up snob who only lightened up when she started crushing on the almighty Bat. No attention or care paid to her mythos, rogues, or even her personal life. Did this Diana even have a life outside the Justice League? No wonder no one cared when she went off to live with the Justice Lords in Batman Beyond.

    Frank Miller:
    His take on Diana probably too over-the-top to be taken seriously, but I include because he seems to have a distressing fascination with the idea that she can only love a man (usually Superman) who "conquers" her. He clearly thinks it's empowering (I guess) but it's really gross.

    Joss Whedon:
    We got a taste of his take on Diana with Justice League...which wasn't great. She's rendered obsolete by Superman, is the humorless den mother for Aquaman to ogle and Flash to fall into her cleavage, and--of course--flirting with Batman.
    Maybe it shouldn't count since it didn't get made, but then there's the draft of his Wonder Woman script and...wow, we really dodged a bullet. Unless you would've liked her big screen debut to consist of Steve smugly condescending her and at times outright berating her when she screws up (by not listening to him). Oh yeah, and there's the "erotic Amazon dance" she would've used to distract the bad guys.

    Zack Snyder:
    Honestly, who's surprised this guy is in love with the vision of Wonder Woman as a "hardcore warrior" who collects severed heads as trophies? There's also the "walked away from mankind a hundred years ago" corner her painted Patty Jenkins into, so we got a Diana who's been around since World War I, but no one knows about her because she was supposed to give up on humanity in her first frickin' movie. She's still going to get her ass handed to her by Superman, but apparently chopping Steppenwolf's head off (after Superman does all the work) will make up for that. And slaughtered Amazons.

    Geoff Johns:
    As far back as 2003...maybe earlier...I thought Johns couldn't write Wonder Woman properly to save his life. Consistently joyless, nagging, aloof, stuck-up, and at times hypocritical. Often banging on how she isn't human and therefore doesn't understand humans. Took all the nuance and context Greg Rucka crafted for Diana's position on killing bad guys and flushed it down the toilet, reducing her to "the one that chops heads off." Then the New 52 hit and we got his Justice League where she was also an angry brute who responds to every situation by hitting it with a sword in addition to a stuck-up, aloof snob.
    The fact that Geoff Johns was DC's golden boy and had such a hand in the company's direction with crossovers and events and the multiple animated movies based on his works (specifically Flashpoint and his New 52 Justice League run...so many fans out there know Wonder Woman best based on his writing and that's mortifying. The long-term damage he's inflicted on Diana is immeasurable and we're going to be feeling it for years.
    This is a GREAT list and I concur whole-heartedly. It's amazing how so many objecively great writers just CANNOT wrap their heads around Wonder Woman. To me, it seems they were the type that said "Eww, Wonder Woman comics are for GIRLS!!!" in their youth, and grew up not giving two poos about her as a character. It's sad, really.

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  14. #44
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The collecting heads thing was an idea Snyder proposed and then dropped like plenty of people do. Having Diana grow disillusioned after all the horror and trauma she'd witnessed wasn't inherently a bad idea. And it isn't like he wiped out all the Amazons. Every WW since as far back as Perez at least had some Amazons die.
    Yeah, but the Amazons who die are usually nameless or have some build up so their deaths have impact if they are named characters (Hellene and Menalippe in Perez). In this, one of the Amazons with an uncertain fate is Philippus. It's not surprising that Hippolyta's consort possibly being killed by Steppenwolf would rub WW fans the wrong way, especially as it isn't even a WW-focused film.

  15. #45
    Mighty Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    I loved Azzarello's run on Wonder Woman. Probably because I was more familiar with Azzarello at the time than Wonder Woman? I'd be interested in hearing from people who despise that run if they think it would be just as bad if it wasn't connected to the Wonder Woman character at all.


    Why does it seem so rare that we get a Wonder Woman run that is well liked by her fans? Why does it seem so easy to get Wonder Woman wrong? Is it because the writers assigned to her aren't fans of the character? Is it because of editorial interferance?

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