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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Most of that rant was crap but at least the last paragraph was fair.
    Lol, opinions and buttholes! I can imagine what you disagree about.

  2. #47
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Lol, opinions and buttholes! I can imagine what you disagree about.
    Well, imagining is the most you can do about that.
    "Cable was right!"

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Mutants can conceal their status (black, brown, asian, indigenous people can't)

    Mutants, for the most part, are EXTREMELY attractive by normal human standards (meaning they are, more often than not, extremely socially successful even without their powers being revealed)
    Not all of them- see Beast, Nightcrawler, Rockslide, just to name a few.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Mutants, for the most part, can turn their abilities on and off (meaning there's no automatic stigma attached to being a mutant. they can choose to be themselves publicly or not and sometimes they are embraced because their powers are pleasing.)
    Not all of them- see Cyclops, Rogue, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Mutants have a culture they have invented for themselves which is largely hidden from non-mutants
    True, but many minority groups, particularly those that were persecuted, have some unique subcultures that most people outside of them don't know much about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Mutants were never enslaved
    Actually, they were in Genosha (although if Marvel really wanted to explore this, they should have made a new character that was a survivor of Genosha enslavement).

    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Mutants are not immigrants
    Except those that are.


    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    they certainly are not an analog for Black Americans who, even in the Marvel universe, have had and still have it much worse than the mutants ever did. And the same can be said for Brown Americans as well and Indigenous Americans. there's no comparison; all those groups exist in the marvel universe with a basically identical history to their real world counterparts.

    one size can't and doesn't fit all.

    doesn't mean they're not awesome. but they weren't designed and haven't evolved to be what so many people keep trying to pretend they are.

    The other thing that makes the mutants a poor analog for ANY marginalized group is, it's not unreasonable to fear mutants. They are actually physical threats to those around them and it makes no sense, survival-wise, that any baseline human would trust any mutant NOT to kill them or invade their mind or whatever. there'd be no way to stop them if they did.
    Actually, from what I wrote above, you might think I disagree with you, but I don't- as I said earlier in this thread, you can use them as a minority allegory in some stories or for a few characters, but trying to make them a perfect stand-in for any specific group not only can be offensive, but also limits story potential too much. The X-men are better use as outcasts, but not tied-in too much to any specific minority or persecuted group (and the Legacy Virus non-sense is a good example of what happens when you do).

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Lol, opinions and buttholes! I can imagine what you disagree about.
    Best ignore em'.

    No point in getting side tracked.
    Black Lives Matter.

  5. #50
    BCB 4sake Baned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Mutants can conceal their status (black, brown, asian, indigenous people can't)
    Mutants, for the most part, can turn their abilities on and off (meaning there's no automatic stigma attached to being a mutant. they can choose to be themselves publicly or not and sometimes they are embraced because their powers are pleasing.)
    Mutants, for the most part, are EXTREMELY attractive by normal human standards (meaning they are, more often than not, extremely socially successful even without their powers being revealed)
    Mutants have a culture they have invented for themselves which is largely hidden from non-mutants
    Mutants were never enslaved
    Mutants are not immigrants

    they certainly are not an analog for Black Americans who, even in the Marvel universe, have had and still have it much worse than the mutants ever did. And the same can be said for Brown Americans as well and Indigenous Americans. there's no comparison; all those groups exist in the marvel universe with a basically identical history to their real world counterparts.

    one size can't and doesn't fit all.

    doesn't mean they're not awesome. but they weren't designed and haven't evolved to be what so many people keep trying to pretend they are.

    The other thing that makes the mutants a poor analog for ANY marginalized group is, it's not unreasonable to fear mutants. They are actually physical threats to those around them and it makes no sense, survival-wise, that any baseline human would trust any mutant NOT to kill them or invade their mind or whatever. there'd be no way to stop them if they did.
    Can’t be better said

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member pageturner's Avatar
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    depends on the story I suppose. Certainly they have more in common with the LGBTQ population these days given they come from all walks of life across the globe.
    But I dont think that is the only connection you can make.

  7. #52
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Mutants can conceal their status (black, brown, asian, indigenous people can't)
    Mutants, for the most part, can turn their abilities on and off (meaning there's no automatic stigma attached to being a mutant. they can choose to be themselves publicly or not and sometimes they are embraced because their powers are pleasing.)
    Mutants, for the most part, are EXTREMELY attractive by normal human standards (meaning they are, more often than not, extremely socially successful even without their powers being revealed)
    Mutants have a culture they have invented for themselves which is largely hidden from non-mutants
    Mutants were never enslaved
    Mutants are not immigrants

    they certainly are not an analog for Black Americans who, even in the Marvel universe, have had and still have it much worse than the mutants ever did. And the same can be said for Brown Americans as well and Indigenous Americans. there's no comparison; all those groups exist in the marvel universe with a basically identical history to their real world counterparts.

    one size can't and doesn't fit all.

    doesn't mean they're not awesome. but they weren't designed and haven't evolved to be what so many people keep trying to pretend they are.

    The other thing that makes the mutants a poor analog for ANY marginalized group is, it's not unreasonable to fear mutants. They are actually physical threats to those around them and it makes no sense, survival-wise, that any baseline human would trust any mutant NOT to kill them or invade their mind or whatever. there'd be no way to stop them if they did.
    Additionally the most prominent ones lived on a posh estate/campus and for the most part never had a real job.

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Additionally the most prominent ones lived on a posh estate/campus and for the most part never had a real job.
    Yes, contrary to… Spider-man.


  9. #54
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    The other thing that makes the mutants a poor analog for ANY marginalized group is, it's not unreasonable to fear mutants. They are actually physical threats to those around them and it makes no sense, survival-wise, that any baseline human would trust any mutant NOT to kill them or invade their mind or whatever. there'd be no way to stop them if they did.
    It makes sense to other mutants to fear telepaths, mind-controllers and other niceties when your power is being green and make plants grow…

    You don’t fear powerful mutants when you have yourself powerful powers.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    True, but many minority groups, particularly those that were persecuted, have some unique subcultures that most people outside of them don't know much about.
    Mutant culture shouldn't just one culture, it should have numerous sub-groups. Not all mutants have the same experiences or cultures. The Morlocks don't act like the X-men, who don't act like the Brotherhood, for instance. They should also be split into groups politically, the Brotherhood would have far more malicious policies with geopolitics then the X-men. The Morlocks would be more inclined to be isolationists, aside from the terrorists who like blowing people up like Masque.

    Actually, they were in Genosha (although if Marvel really wanted to explore this, they should have made a new character that was a survivor of Genosha enslavement).
    It could be argued they were enslaved in New Tien by Emma Frost. Magneto tried to make his own mutant slaves in Stan Lee's run.

    Actually, from what I wrote above, you might think I disagree with you, but I don't- as I said earlier in this thread, you can use them as a minority allegory in some stories or for a few characters, but trying to make them a perfect stand-in for any specific group not only can be offensive, but also limits story potential too much. The X-men are better use as outcasts, but not tied-in too much to any specific minority or persecuted group (and the Legacy Virus non-sense is a good example of what happens when you do).
    Agreed.

  11. #56
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFJamie94 View Post
    It depends on who is the writer at the time.
    As for are they a good representation? Well I can't really say as I'm not a POC, a religious minority or part of the LGBTQ community, but I do feel it changes for different People and different experiences.
    I've seen some folks who don't feel mutants represent them while others have felt that Cyclops speaks to them. Both are just as viable, they just have different views and life experiences.
    The question shouldn't be do they take the place, but can they?

    And I or anyone else shouldn't diminish if someone does feel connected to them.
    I feel there is a place for Mutants to be an allegory for political stand ins and have other characters also tackle such issues.
    Ms Marvel, Miles Morales, they can also stand in for such topics and themes.
    The fact there's an audience that connects more with Miles than they do with Parker says something. Personally, I find it kind of beautiful that People feel they are being represented there.
    A voice of reason...here? I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 01-20-2021 at 05:33 AM.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  12. #57
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Mutants can conceal their status (black, brown, asian, indigenous people can't)
    Mutants, for the most part, can turn their abilities on and off (meaning there's no automatic stigma attached to being a mutant. they can choose to be themselves publicly or not and sometimes they are embraced because their powers are pleasing.)
    Mutants, for the most part, are EXTREMELY attractive by normal human standards (meaning they are, more often than not, extremely socially successful even without their powers being revealed)
    Mutants have a culture they have invented for themselves which is largely hidden from non-mutants
    Mutants were never enslaved
    Mutants are not immigrants

    they certainly are not an analog for Black Americans who, even in the Marvel universe, have had and still have it much worse than the mutants ever did. And the same can be said for Brown Americans as well and Indigenous Americans. there's no comparison; all those groups exist in the marvel universe with a basically identical history to their real world counterparts.

    one size can't and doesn't fit all.

    doesn't mean they're not awesome. but they weren't designed and haven't evolved to be what so many people keep trying to pretend they are.

    The other thing that makes the mutants a poor analog for ANY marginalized group is, it's not unreasonable to fear mutants. They are actually physical threats to those around them and it makes no sense, survival-wise, that any baseline human would trust any mutant NOT to kill them or invade their mind or whatever. there'd be no way to stop them if they did.
    Not only Americans read X-Men comics. So your assertion that mutants/X-Men cannot be representational of Black Americans is somewhat limited and limiting in its specificity.

    One size doesn't fit all, is true but...it was never written to "fit" all. Instead it was written to be relatable in whatever way to the many different individuals who read them...American, British, African, Caribbean etc. Black, White, Brown, etc. Male, Female, Gay, Trans etc. Abled, Disabled etc.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Well, imagining is the most you can do about that.
    Lol, yeah kiddo. Sure slinging it from behind the shield of anonymity. That's just too lame.

  14. #59
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Lol, yeah kiddo. Sure slinging it from behind the shield of anonymity. That's just too lame.
    Aren't you doing the same thing?
    "Cable was right!"

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Not only Americans read X-Men comics. So your assertion that mutants/X-Men cannot be representational of Black Americans is somewhat limited and limiting in its specificity.

    One size doesn't fit all, is true but...it was never written to "fit" all. Instead it was written to be relatable in whatever way to the many different individuals who read them...American, British, African, Caribbean etc. Black, White, Brown, etc. Male, Female, Gay, Trans etc. Abled, Disabled etc.
    Interesting, so how about writers just write them meaningfully into the FICTIONAL narratives. What better way to be relatable to all those you just listed?

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