Does DC hates the 90's?

[LAWtoyoto 432]

I think that’s the truth of how Didio saw it, but it still seems to be very much the product of an echo chamber feeding itself rather than observing actual market trends and capacity.

The Bat books and Green Lantern book, both showed that as long as you had a strong stable of writers, you could have massive amounts of generational overlap and “legacy characters”, and with the Bat books that you don’t even need to worry about age differences that much.

And hell, half the time under Didio’s watch, new legacy characters succeeded in raking in cash *without* hurting the previous characters. It’s easy to try to apply the cases of Hal and Barry in the 90s to the other Silver Age/Big 7 characters, but legacy characters and spin-off babies from the 90s was never the problem during Didio’s run - it was the lack of skilled writers with consistently good editorial support.

Sure, a lot of its cyclical. But Didio arguably did a lot more damage to a lot more brands than just the 90s characters and legacy characters - so much so that I’d say he may have unintentionally disproved his theories about legacy character and generations.

I mean, it would be farcical to pretend that the Big 7’s books from the New 52 started having issues because of the legacy characters he felt were threats - they were problems because his editorial staff still couldn’t figure out how to handle Wonder Woman, Superman, or Flash after a while. All three fo those franchises started strong with good writers, and then Didio wasted most of their efforts with their replacements (or in the case of Superman, driving off both established big name writers and promising newcomers.)

Didio was looking for a scapegoat he could genuinely blame for how the shrinking market and his flaws as a micromanager were accelerating DC’s long term decline. I don’t doubt he thinks that new fans would be driven away by legacy character and older heroes, but I think that’s only because he told himself that often enough that not believing it now would require taking a more depressing type of look back at his work.

No one wants to be told “You could have gotten farther staying friendly with Mark Waid, Peter David, George Perez, and Andy Diggle, and by encouraging those new young writers who wanted shots at the younger characters, than you did by dedicating multiple crisis events to trying to wipe-out legacy characters.”

You are absolute right, I am so proud to be an X-Men fans because there, you don't have to worry if a writer try to wipe out the history of the legacy of Mutants. Every mutants from different generation are all living under the same roof at Krakoa.

In the 80's, you have Chris Claremont as the writer for the X-Men.

in the 90's, Jim lee is the artist for the run along with differen writers.

In the 2000's , Joss Whedon launched his "ASTONISHING X-MEN".

In the 2010's, Brian Bendis also write several X-books despite polarized reception.

And lastly, Jonathan Hickman is the " HEAD OF X" meaning he in charge of making plans with the other X-books.

There is a reason why X-Men fanbase have grow stronger every years.

[Bruce Wayne]

I wonder if this is true:
https://i.imgur.com/OvmgDwd.png

[Captain Nostalgia]

Wally didn't exist in the New 52 until majority of the fans basically demanded to bring him back.
Kyle Rayner got depowered and now rarely shows up.
Tim Drake got sidelined as a background character in most Batbooks.
Dick Grayson was basically dead for 2 years worth of books in favor of Ric.
Bart and Connor didn't exist in the New 52 until the bendis's Young Justice. Before that, they were replaced by the wannable Bar-torr and Kon-el.
Roy Harper doesn't even have his Daughter anymore.... and he's dead
Connor Hawke doesn't even exist anymore, still waiting for him to come back.

Any suggestion why?

Although you could make a case when Didio was in charge, or with Jeff John's decision to bring back Barry, as someone pointed out....

the 90's isn't the demographic DC comics is aiming for nor should it be, if you were 15 in 1995 your now 40.

I'm guessing they were trying to inject some racial/gender diversity into DC by having the core classics alongside Young Justice sidekicks (new Aqualad, Speedy, Kid Flash, ect) which meant cutting out middle men to ensure they grew into their roles? (The middle men being the Legacy Characters)

That's the only reason I can think of.

[LAWtoyoto 432]

Although you could make a case when Didio was in charge, or with Jeff John's decision to bring back Barry, as someone pointed out....

the 90's isn't the demographic DC comics is aiming for nor should it be, if you were 15 in 1995 your now 40.

I'm guessing they were trying to inject some racial/gender diversity into DC by having the core classics alongside Young Justice sidekicks (new Aqualad, Speedy, Kid Flash, ect) which meant cutting out middle men to ensure they grew into their roles? (The middle men being the Legacy Characters)

That's the only reason I can think of.

They can create more diverse hero without axeing the establishing legacy heroes (Wally,Dick,Kyle,Donna)

On one note, the orginal five teen titans is equivalent to the O5 X-Men. (Cyclops,Beast,Iceman,Jean Grey,Angel)

And yet the X-Men become the most popular franchise in the 90's while the Teen Titans become popular around the 80's.

[John Venus]

I wonder if this is true:
https://i.imgur.com/OvmgDwd.png

I mean its straight from the horse's mouth. Waid was also the one who said Didio was mad about the success of 52 and considered Countdown to be '52 done right'. This just confirms what we all knew.

[married guy]

I mean its straight from the horse's mouth. Waid was also the one who said Didio was mad about the success of 52 and considered Countdown to be '52 done right'. This just confirms what we all knew.

I still giggle my arse off at that one.

[mathew101281]

Modern mainstream comics are all about grooming characters to be adapted into other mediums. The problem with a lot of 90s characters is that they are second generation characters, and being second generation characters are intrinsic to their characters. In order for Kyle and Wally’s story to make sense Barry and Hal have to exist. Barry and Hal on the other hand are more self contained.
This makes the older characters more primed for adaption because they are easier to explain.

[John Venus]

Modern mainstream comics are all about grooming characters to be adapted into other mediums. The problem with a lot of 90s characters is that they are second generation characters, and being second generation characters are intrinsic to their characters. In order for Kyle and Wally’s story to make sense Barry and Hal have to exist. Barry and Hal on the other hand are more self contained.
This makes the older characters more primed for adaption because they are easier to explain.

Tell that to an entire generation of people, myself included, who grew up seeing Wally West as the Flash and John Stewart as the Green Lantern thanks to JLU. I had no issue getting into comics either. I knew Wally and Kyle had predecessors and that one died while the other became a villain. I didn't need anything more than that to enjoy the adventures of Kyle and Wally.

The Didio regime didn't even think that adaptations would matter that much. The success of Geoff Johns Green Lantern and Hal Jordan revival lead to the much derided Green Lantern and only when casual audiences started asking 'where's John Stewart?' did they realize that 'oh ****, comics are niche, it's adaptations that reach out to most people' and after that it was all Hal all the time in any adaptation. We were lucky to get a look at John or Guy every now and then.

Their entire business regime was built on the idea of going back to the 'good ol' days' and appealing to a middle aged audience while alienating the audience they gained in the Post Crisis era and they didn't try too hard to reach out to millennial audiences. They ended up undoing all the gains made during the Post Crisis era especially in terms of diversity and created the mess we have today. DC's loss became Marvel's gain as they began investing heavily in legacy heroes, Runaways and Young Avengers became entry points for newer younger audiences then later on Ms Marvel, Miles Morales and Moongirl and Devil Dinosaur.

[M L A]

Mostly what mathew101281 said.

Also if you told me the the main people now in charge started reading in the 90s I wouldn't be surprised, as DC is more 90s than they've been in a while.

Alan, Obsidian, Jade, Lobo, and Wally were all relatively prominent in the 90s with Chase appearing in late 90s. The batbooks are leaning hard into 90s nostalgia (Nightwing especially) with Robin is using tons of Dixon era Nightwing villains + Connor Hawke and 'Tec being a half Huntress title. And honestly had DC not taken more of a DCAU nostalgia route with the GL book (with an apparently Kyle-less movie and show on the way), Kyle probably would be the pushed GL right now instead of John.

[LAWtoyoto 432]

Their entire business regime was built on the idea of going back to the 'good ol' days' and appealing to a middle aged audience while alienating the audience they gained in the Post Crisis era and they didn't try too hard to reach out to millennial audiences. They ended up undoing all the gains made during the Post Crisis era especially in terms of diversity and created the mess we have today. DC's loss became Marvel's gain as they began investing heavily in legacy heroes, Runaways and Young Avengers became entry points for newer younger audiences then later on Ms Marvel, Miles Morales and Moongirl and Devil Dinosaur.

See, this is totally a huge losses for DC Comics right now, when you ask a fan which Legacy heroes you like, they will say Marvel because Ms. Marvel, Mile Morales and most of the young legacy heroes wil push a lot as compared to DC Comics whose higher up are totally "Anti-Millenials and Legacy" by denied to give Dick and Wally some prominent roles.

[BatmanJones]

I don’t know if DC hates the 90s but when it comes to DC Comics, I know that I do.

[Jekyll]

I don’t know if DC hates the 90s but when it comes to DC Comics, I know that I do.

That is to bad since that was the greatest decade of DC comics My DC fandom died with the new 52.

[sunofdarkchild]

DC had much better editors in the 90s. You could have Dixon on Batman for the whole decade, and on Robin for 100 issues, you could have PAD on Supergirl for 79 out of 80 issues and a new Superman book literally every week while keeping the stories engaging and keeping the continuity tight. There were plenty of missteps, but the line was in much better hands and less subject to the whims of people who were promoted beyond their level of incompetence like Didio and Harass.

[Dataweaver]

If the current push is to bring in more diversity to the DCU, why not being back Connor Hawke?

[Noodle]

If the current push is to bring in more diversity to the DCU, why not being back Connor Hawke?

They did in the current Robin series.