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  1. #76
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    Wait a minute, Hellions is the only X-book I am up to date on, so forgive me if it was addressed in another title but in light of the Maddy resurrection explanation (she's a clone so no resurrection for her), how is X-23 running around? I saw her on the cover of an upcoming issue of Uncanny and immediately thought wth?

  2. #77
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmeraldGladiator View Post
    Wait a minute, Hellions is the only X-book I am up to date on, so forgive me if it was addressed in another title but in light of the Maddy resurrection explanation (she's a clone so no resurrection for her), how is X-23 running around? I saw her on the cover of an upcoming issue of Uncanny and immediately thought wth?
    She was never killed. The Resurrection Protocols only applies to characters that are dead. Krakoa isnt going around murdering all the clones.

    FYI, X-23 isnt a clone so the debate wouldnt be the same with her

  3. #78
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    So she is skating on the technicality that she has never died, ok. As for the not clone part was that retconned because originally she was they could only replicate one of the chromosomes so she was female instead of male? Forgive if it was, she was never one of my favorite X-Men so I didn't follow her story too closely. Then again somethings change often like are Pietro and Lorma Magneto's actual kids or not, it changes as often as the are eggs good for you debate does.

  4. #79
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmeraldGladiator View Post
    So she is skating on the technicality that she has never died, ok. As for the not clone part was that retconned because originally she was they could only replicate one of the chromosomes so she was female instead of male? Forgive if it was, she was never one of my favorite X-Men so I didn't follow her story too closely. Then again somethings change often like are Pietro and Lorma Magneto's actual kids or not, it changes as often as the are eggs good for you debate does.
    Thats not a techniicality. She's not dead. No one is being resurrected that is currently alive for obvious reasons. That has nothing to do with Laura or her specific situation

    The word clone is used to distill it to its most simplest form and for marketing but she's never actually been a true clone. Logan is male and she's female. They've never been identical and her origin mini flat out says she isnt a clone. The last time her background was brought up was when Logan returned in 2019 and one of his mini revealed that that Sarah Kinney didnt just carry her, but that her DNA was used to create her, making her, her biological mother, further reaffirming that she isnt a clone

    Back to your original point though, you may want to follow New Mutantas as this was brought up there where Gabby, Laura's clone inquired what would happen to her if she died. The NM tried to assure her that she would be brought back but she challenged that and used Maddy as an example. They told her it was bc Maddy was actively trying to kill people which is why the QC ruled against her
    Last edited by Havok83; 02-15-2021 at 09:41 AM.

  5. #80
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Taking advantage of the commercial break to renew my heartfelt wish to reverse and purge any and all elements of Madelyne being a clone from her origin. I know that it will never happen, but a soul wants what it wants and needs what it needs.

  6. #81
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    If nothing else Maddy should go with gold highlights to differentiate herself from Jean. For me I would think people should be able to tell them apart, Jean probably carries herself differently than Maddy, plus Maddy is always in heels, chest poked out (trying to prove herself) while Jean is probably a little more comfortable in her own skin. I would love for the Hellions to be Maddy's team. A group of mutants who would have more allegiance to Maddy than to Jean. There is no one on the Hellions that has a really close relationship to Jean, moreso than they would with Maddy.

  7. #82
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Fell asleep listening to Ray LaMontagne and dreamt that Madelyne had her own Disney+ show. Madelaine Petsch portrayed in her in the dream and the scene was a bit melancholic, no doubt due to the influence of Ray's song, Empty.

    What would be a good theme song for Maddy's show? And who would you cast?


  8. #83
    Incredible Member Anodyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anodyne View Post
    I have no idea if Madelyne ever met Umar or any Dr. Strange characters. One idea I've had is, have Maddie de-aged to infancy so she can have the childhood she was denied. Can anyone remember who de-aged Magneto? Not sure who should adopt her. Jean maybe, but could she resist the temptation to expect the baby to grow up to become the Goblin Queen?
    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    If old man Cable wasn’t dead, I’d say him.

    But I don’t think she needs a childhood.
    Yes, Madelyne has made do without a childhood; but having one would give her what she's been denied: years of experience, of growing from infancy to womanhood, with the loving guidance of parental figures.
    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Taking advantage of the commercial break to renew my heartfelt wish to reverse and purge any and all elements of Madelyne being a clone from her origin. I know that it will never happen, but a soul wants what it wants and needs what it needs.
    I can think of a way to do that: The Phoenix said it "gave Madelyne life," but it didn't say where. What if, having been rejected by Jean, it is drawn to the fervent desire for life of a dying woman, trapped in the cockpit of a crashed and burning plane? Taking the woman's essence from her charred body, it implants her consciousness in the dormant clone body in Mr. Sinister's lab. But it wants this woman to be another Jean, who will love Scott as the Phoenix loved him; so it suppresses most of Madelyne's own memories, giving her a few of Jean's instead. Sadly, if I understand Marvel's policy correctly, my even mentioning this idea will prevent Marvel from ever using it, even though I hereby give them permission, with no expectation of personal gain.

    But the real problem isn't Maddie's being a clone; it's the callous bigotry that assumes that someone created by cloning would be a less real person than someone conceived in the usual way. (BTW, didn't some people question whether "test-tube babies" had souls?) As far as I'm concerned, all people are real persons (okay, real in their own fictional universe), whether they were created by sexual intercourse, by in vitro fertilization, or by cloning.
    Last edited by Anodyne; 04-09-2021 at 09:22 AM.
    Beverly Allen, the Bee--with honey and stinger.

    "If humans have souls, then clones will have them, too."--Arthur Caplan

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Thats not a techniicality. She's not dead. No one is being resurrected that is currently alive for obvious reasons. That has nothing to do with Laura or her specific situation

    The word clone is used to distill it to its most simplest form and for marketing but she's never actually been a true clone. Logan is male and she's female. They've never been identical and her origin mini flat out says she isnt a clone. The last time her background was brought up was when Logan returned in 2019 and one of his mini revealed that that Sarah Kinney didnt just carry her, but that her DNA was used to create her, making her, her biological mother, further reaffirming that she isnt a clone

    Back to your original point though, you may want to follow New Mutantas as this was brought up there where Gabby, Laura's clone inquired what would happen to her if she died. The NM tried to assure her that she would be brought back but she challenged that and used Maddy as an example. They told her it was bc Maddy was actively trying to kill people which is why the QC ruled against her
    Wasn't the argument against bringing this Version of Maddy back that she is not the "original" version of her? And not because the original was a clone. So Laura and Gabby should be fine even if they are cloned.

  10. #85
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowfyr View Post
    Wasn't the argument against bringing this Version of Maddy back that she is not the "original" version of her? And not because the original was a clone. So Laura and Gabby should be fine even if they are cloned.
    we dont know what the argument was as we never saw the QC debate, just Scott telling Alex she was a clone after the decision was made. JDW elaborated and mentioned that the Hellions Maddie wasnt the original and therefore thats why she wanst brought back. I think Laura and Gabby would be safe too but she's worried and thats part of her character arc in NM right now

  11. #86
    Astonishing Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Alright, I take it to mean that the real Maddie is still alive out there somewhere then.

    And even if she were dead, wouldn't that mean that the real Madelyne Pryor was eligible for resurrection.

  12. #87
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    Alright, I take it to mean that the real Maddie is still alive out there somewhere then.

    And even if she were dead, wouldn't that mean that the real Madelyne Pryor was eligible for resurrection.
    No, bc she merged with Jean Grey in Inferno.

  13. #88
    Astonishing Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    No, bc she merged with Jean Grey in Inferno.
    So than the Maddie that appeared in the Fraction run and the Sisterhood arch don't count as being real Maddie ?
    I thought that the X-Men acted towards her as if she were the real Maddie come back to life. That's just how the story read to me. Maybe I'm wrong.

    But, if Maddie doesn't count as real because she merged with Jean, there is still a way for her to return. All that she would have to do is write a story where Maddie escapes from her merger with Jean. So there is still hope.

    Actually, if you wanted to, you could even say that Maddie managed to separate herself from Jean while Jean was dead. So then it would have been the real Maddie after all. It would take a retcon to do it that way, but I think that you could do it.

    So there is still hope!

  14. #89
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    So than the Maddie that appeared in the Fraction run and the Sisterhood arch don't count as being real Maddie ?
    I thought that the X-Men acted towards her as if she were the real Maddie come back to life. That's just how the story read to me. Maybe I'm wrong.

    But, if Maddie doesn't count as real because she merged with Jean, there is still a way for her to return. All that she would have to do is write a story where Maddie escapes from her merger with Jean. So there is still hope.

    Actually, if you wanted to, you could even say that Maddie managed to separate herself from Jean while Jean was dead. So then it would have been the real Maddie after all. It would take a retcon to do it that way, but I think that you could do it.

    So there is still hope!
    That was the same Maddie. This is my take on it.

    Maddie died in Inferno. The fragment of Jean's soul which gave her life was returned to Jean as she gained her memories and persona. For a short time, Maddie existed as a seperate persona that would occasionally take control of Jean's body until the three (along with Phoenix) were full integrated in Judgement War as one complete personality. I viewed Marvel seeing them as 1 character that was split 3 ways and brought back whole.

    In the mid 90s, X-Man created a new Maddie when he came to this universe. He was reaching out for Jean but instead created a psychic ghost based on a psychic echo of Maddie from the astral plane

    Years later Maddie, still a psychic ghost, needed a body to become corporeal and the only one fitting was that of Jean. In the Sisterhood arc, she tried unsuccessfully to reanimate and take her body. In X-men v4 she returned again but this time was placed in the magically altered body of Ana Cortes who was altered to be a replica of Jean. She disappeared after making a truce with Storm.

    She doesnt turn up again until Hellions and is back for revenge against the X-men and Sinister. I think she is likely seen as a demonic perversion of Jean and heck even the original Maddie. She has her face and was preparing to do heinous things, which is why the ruling did not go in her favor
    Last edited by Havok83; 02-22-2021 at 09:44 PM.

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Well Havok83, your reasoning makes sense.

    I'm just going to be a stubborn bastard and say that Maddie's psychic ghost is still out there, waiting to return.

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