Madelyne Pryor the Goblin Queen Appreciation Thread 2021

[EmeraldGladiator]

So is she still the mother of cable?

Yep she is

[Zelena]

She didn'j have a life, that is why it was easy for the heel turn they made.

She was a competent pilot and thought she found love with Scott Summers. She had a child with him. And then everything goes awry…



But it was a lifetime ago…

[Devaishwarya]

I really want Wells to go deeper into the Maddie conundrum at some point.
I can understand from the QC perspective why it is problematic to resurrect Maddie specifically as she was a direct clone of Jean Grey and the history between them and Scott but...before Inferno ensued, she had forged a life and character of her own separate and far removed from Jean Grey and Scott essentially becoming her own distinct person. And of course her being Cable's biological mother. From that perspective, she could be considered for resurrection barring any overt malicious intent towards Krakoa and its inhabitants.

[seccruz]

She was a competent pilot and thought she found love with Scott Summers. She had a child with him. And then everything goes awry…



But it was a lifetime ago…

all the more reason to never marry Scott...

[Uncanny X-Man]

She was a competent pilot and thought she found love with Scott Summers. She had a child with him. And then everything goes awry…



But it was a lifetime ago…

A truly tragic character if there was ever one.

[Askani's Flame]

I really want Wells to go deeper into the Maddie conundrum at some point.
I can understand from the QC perspective why it is problematic to resurrect Maddie specifically as she was a direct clone of Jean Grey and the history between them and Scott but...before Inferno ensued, she had forged a life and character of her own separate and far removed from Jean Grey and Scott essentially becoming her own distinct person. And of course her being Cable's biological mother. From that perspective, she could be considered for resurrection barring any overt malicious intent towards Krakoa and its inhabitants.

I *THINK* that the issue is they view Maddie no different than one of Multiple Mans dupes in that even though several have lived their own lives and families separate from Jamie they are still only part of him or owe their existence to him. Similarly Maddie is a direct clone of Jean who's mind and memories were absorbed into Jean upon her death. So from a black and white perspective, even though she had a completely different experience than Jean she is still a Jean. I don't necessarily subscribe to this notion myself as I think she's had many things happen to her that should allow her to exist on her own, but I think that is what they are going for by denying her a place in Krakoa.

[Devaishwarya]

Yupp.

I can see the conversation:

Sinister: I nominate for resurrection Mad...
Jean: Hell NO! FOCK NO!

And I wouldn't be mad at her I would actually agree with her, to an extent. Which is why I think it could be a truly riveting story arc to explore.

[Havok83]

I *THINK* that the issue is they view Maddie no different than one of Multiple Mans dupes in that even though several have lived their own lives and families separate from Jamie they are still only part of him or owe their existence to him. Similarly Maddie is a direct clone of Jean who's mind and memories were absorbed into Jean upon her death. So from a black and white perspective, even though she had a completely different experience than Jean she is still a Jean. I don't necessarily subscribe to this notion myself as I think she's had many things happen to her that should allow her to exist on her own, but I think that is what they are going for by denying her a place in Krakoa.

yeah and its kinda explained here. Maddie is a part of Jean

[Devaishwarya]

Is that still a thing? That Maddie is a part of Jean...even now? After her first death in NXM and then her resurrection by the PF...then her second death on the Orchis Mission and subsequent resurrection on Krakoa.
I don't think Jean was resurrected with the Maddie soul/essence/mind in tact.

[Havok83]

Is that still a thing? That Maddie is a part of Jean...even now? After her first death in NXM and then her resurrection by the PF...then her second death on the Orchis Mission and subsequent resurrection on Krakoa.
I don't think Jean was resurrected with the Maddie soul/essence/mind in tact.

It hasnt been brought up in the books but its how JDW still views things and it makes even more sense now in the current era where people are cloned and a copy of their minds is transferred to the new body and yet that new person is considered the original. What happened with Jean, Phoenix II and Maddie can be seen as a prototype for what we have now and a cautionary tale for what happens when someone is resurrected while the original is still alive. Thats how I view it

AIPT: I know we’ve talked about this before, but could you clarify who or what this latest version of Madelyne was? Because I’ve seen a lot of people online trying to figure that out.

Jordan: I mean, I think that’s part of the interesting debate. Again, you didn’t see the scene of the Council, but I imagine the scene in the Council was a lot of the same debates that people are having about this, because what is she? What makes her different from Jean if Madelyne was made from a piece of Jean’s soul?

OK, so let me get this straight. I think this is true. A piece of Jean’s soul was taken by the Phoenix so that it could be her, right? While she slept it off at the bottom of the bay.

So it took a piece of her, right? And then it went Dark Phoenix and got killed on the Moon, right? And then Sinister, I believe, captured that piece of her soul and made Madelyne. And then Madelyne “lived” with a fake life.

So she lived, she married Scott, she had a baby. “Inferno” happened. And I believe that piece of her soul was reabsorbed back into Jean. So now, the essence that made Madelyne live lives in Jean.

[Devaishwarya]

But if that piece of soul was originally Jean's then there really shouldn't be any issue. (except perhaps, for the memories and emotions she's had to assimilate). And considering Maddie was also subsequently resurrected by Enchantress as her own person...sorry...JDW did not make any sense with that response.

[EmeraldGladiator]

Is that still a thing? That Maddie is a part of Jean...even now? After her first death in NXM and then her resurrection by the PF...then her second death on the Orchis Mission and subsequent resurrection on Krakoa.
I don't think Jean was resurrected with the Maddie soul/essence/mind in tact.

I don't think it is really a thing, it was a way to placate Maddy Fans post inferno but never ever mentioned after Inferno and the next 5 issues of X-factor post inferno. Maddy is NOT a part of Jean now. No more so than it is to say that every character that Rogue has ever absorbed is redundant because Rogue has that covered. Maddy's soul is not a part of Jean, Jean's personality has never substantially changed besides the panel above and the first X-Factor arc post Inferno when the team went into space on ship.

[EmeraldGladiator]

Was complaining on the Alex Summers thread about how on a chart of the Summers Grey family tree, they ignored Alex's alternate timeline kids but laid out all of Scott and Jean's they also didn't list Maddy's kid with Alex in Mutant X Scotty and while that is an alternate universe Maddy but so is Nate Grey and he is fully listed out. As is Rachel. She is always disrespected. Part of the reason why I love Maddy as a character and while I don't hate Jean for Maddy's treatment I do partially blame the character of Scott, and the writers that made him such a loser.

[Havok83]

I don't think it is really a thing, it was a way to placate Maddy Fans post inferno but never ever mentioned after Inferno and the next 5 issues of X-factor post inferno. Maddy is NOT a part of Jean now. No more so than it is to say that every character that Rogue has ever absorbed is redundant because Rogue has that covered. Maddy's soul is not a part of Jean, Jean's personality has never substantially changed besides the panel above and the first X-Factor arc post Inferno when the team went into space on ship.

It was a thing for the duration of Simonson's run on X-Factor. Maddie existed as a seperate personality within Jean for almost the next year (not 5 issues) post Inferno at which point they were integrated into one persona with Jean being the dominant one. After that, Jean still had access to Maddie's memories and its why she turned down Scott's proposal. The Maddie stuff doesnt come up much (if at all post-X-Factor) but we know the merger that happened in X-Factor remained a thing bc she talks about her time as Phoenix in the original DPS as if she was there bc of the memories she has

Was complaining on the Alex Summers thread about how on a chart of the Summers Grey family tree, they ignored Alex's alternate timeline kids but laid out all of Scott and Jean's they also didn't list Maddy's kid with Alex in Mutant X Scotty and while that is an alternate universe Maddy but so is Nate Grey and he is fully listed out. As is Rachel. She is always disrespected. Part of the reason why I love Maddy as a character and while I don't hate Jean for Maddy's treatment I do partially blame the character of Scott, and the writers that made him such a loser.

Nate Grey not only existed in 616 for years (as recently as 2 years ago) but was recognized by Scott and Jean as their son and was able to get close to other relatives (Cable, Hope). His inclusion made sense in a way that Scotty from Mutant X did not

[EmeraldGladiator]

funny I remember it being mentioned in the attempted suicide being Maddy and Phoenix when she would get all cosmic on the ship storyline after that I don't recall it being mentioned much at all. Funny how Maddy is a part of Jean is cited but Phoenix is seen as something separate even though the same time Maddy was absorbed so was Phoenix as far as memories et al. Maddy being a part of Jean was a way to clear Scott of the blame for what he did, but it doesn't successfully do that. I also have never seen Jean reference "her" time with Alex in the Outback, if Maddy and Jean are the same individual. Not looking for a fight, it just seemed like a fix to a bad situation that never takes. Zeb Wells feels the same, why else the Maddy need to be recognized as real mindset being mentioned multiple times.