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  1. #1
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    Default Cyttorak vs Odin

    Cyttorak vs Odin

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    If this was a scenario fight instead of defaulting to Khazan, Odin could start things off by destroying the galaxy that Cyttorak is standing in. I know Cyttorak is really, really tough, but Odin is going to show up for this fight wearing a lobster bib.

  3. #3
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    It should be a fight. I give it to Odin, because Odin has better feats and such. But Cyttorak is no slouch, treating Heralds and Classic Strange like they're garbage.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

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    Cyttorak stomps. Odin is no where near the lvl cyttorak is at. Odin is a skyfather, cyttorak is a prinicipality, a very powerful magical entity. Odin struggles to fight 1 Galactus, and he has issues with just 1 celestial. Agamatto alone can handle Galactus, and he is only 1/3rd of the vishanti. If Odin has issues with a Galactus, mephisto, then there is absolutely no way that he can ever hope to defeat someone as powerful at cyttorak, who is in a realm that is so beyond not even Galactus can reach it, but he reach Odin realm with no problem lol.

  5. #5
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Hi - welcome to Rumbles.

    Here, we go by feats - specifically high-end feats in line with a character's presentation. I suggest checking out the Rules sticky, it's helpful.

    What things has Cyttorak done to put him on the same level or higher than Odin?
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

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    Cyttorak is above the vishanti. And Agamotto alone is capable of handling Galactus. Odin cannot handle Galactus. At peak power he can hurt him badly, but in the end Galactus would win. Odin also has issues with a mephisto. An amped Odin had issues with a celestial. He literally had all of Asgard with him in the e destroyer n he still lost. Also, Odin and all of the skyfathers pantheon couldn’t escape a “ universal” threat. Like forreal.... oh and back to Agamotto. Agamotto is only 1/3 of the vishanti. The vishanti = Agamotto, hoggoth, oshtur, who would all stomp odin. Cyttorak > vishanti. Cyttorak was threatening to destroy ALL members of the octessence. He was going to destroy watoomb, ikon, seraphim, oshtur, Agamotto, hoggoth, denak, faltine lord, Sataanish, raggaddor, all at the same time. Cyttorak even crack a shield that the living tribunal couldn’t. Galactus cannot even go to the crimson cosmos of how higher of a realm it is. But Galactus has no issues going to Asgard. Furthermore Trion Juggs is pretty much cytttorak avatar and he himself would give Odin hell.

  7. #7
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Okay, so -

    1. The octessence doesn't include the Vishanti. It also doesn't include Sataanish, the Faltine, Denak.
    2. Where do you get Cyttorak being above the Vishanti? Scans and/or issue numbers, please.
    3. When did Cyttorak crack a shield the Living Tribunal could not? Context, scans, issue numbers, please.

    Basically, I would like to see scans proving the claims. If you can't get the scans, I'm happy with issue numbers so I can look them up myself. ^_^

    On this board, we go by feats. Odin has feats for destroying galaxies in his battles, and is generally viewed as roughly that level. So I'm requesting feats for Cyttorak.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 01-27-2021 at 10:45 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  8. #8
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    I think I’d need to see some serious feats to back up the first two statements in that post.

    Especially about Aggie taking Galactus. That’s a pretty bold statement there.

    But the one about Old Lobster-Face “Cyttorak even crack a shield that the living tribunal couldn’t”? That definitely wins boldest statement of the day.

    I may be misreading the situation, but there seems to be a strange sort of agenda at play here. I’m definitely sensing some bias.

    Edit: Too slow. Ninja’d by Sharp.

  9. #9
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Agamotto HAS fought Galactus. Looked to be about a draw.

    This would not be surprising, as it occurred in Agamotto's own realm, where he's in the middle of his place of power. And the Vishanti are made up of three of the most potent of the 'white magic' entities that users can call upon in Marvel.

    Unlike Odin, most of these kinds of entities get boosts in power when they're in their own realm, either because they ARE the realm itself (like Cytorrak) or because they draw power from it.

    What I'm looking for, here, is evidence that Cytorrak is above Agamotto. I've seen Cyttorak at work, and while I'm perfectly happy putting him at 'treats Heralds like utter trash' level, I would like to see more before I agree that he's above Odin.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 01-27-2021 at 10:45 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  10. #10
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Agamotto HAS fought Galactus. Looked to be about a draw.

    This would not be surprising, as it occurred in Agamotto's own realm, where he's in the middle of his place of power. And the Vishanti are made up of three of the most potent of the 'white magic' entities that users can call upon in Marvel.
    Yeah, I don’t contest he could put up a good, pretty even fight when given a fairly hefty home-turf advantage. But a blanket statement of “Agamotto alone is capable of handling Galactus” without context is pretty disingenuous.

    Unlike Odin, most of these kinds of entities get boosts in power when they're in their own realm, either because they ARE the realm itself (like Cytorrak) or because they draw power from it.

    What I'm looking for, here, is evidence that Cytorrak is above Agamotto. I've seen Cytorrak at work, and while I'm perfectly happy putting him at 'treats Heralds like utter trash' level, I would like to see more before I agree that he's above Odin.
    “Treats Heralds like utter trash” could be Thanos or Sentry.

    There’s a perceptible jump from there to Skyfather level, especially Odin.

  11. #11
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    “Treats Heralds like utter trash” could be Thanos or Sentry.

    There’s a perceptible jump from there to Skyfather level, especially Odin.
    Indeed.

    Now being fair, Cyttorak basically shut down both Strange and Nova (Herald) simultaneously. So it's a jump up from someone like Thanos. The devil is in the details.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 01-27-2021 at 10:44 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  12. #12
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    Ok so cyttorak doesn’t have a lot of feats. He is one of those beings who just doesn’t. Like TOAA doesn’t have a lot of feats, but we can take statements and cosmic hierarchy in play for scaling.
    Agamotto was going to kill Galactus. It nooot a stalemate. Agamotto has infinite energy in his realm, Galactus doesn’t. Galactus feels pain, and he was only fighting an aspect of Agamotto. I never said vishanti is part of octessensce I just included them. And cyttorak was going to destroy them all for claims on dr strange. Living Tribunal invokes power from Raggaddoor, and he even claim that no one should be able to break them. The bands of raggadorr. Tribunal also relies on the protection of the seraphim shield, and cyttorak cracked it. I’m on my phone, so if u want I can send scans on discord or something.
    Last edited by Iz_dabz; 01-27-2021 at 10:46 AM.

  13. #13
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    So, to head something off at the pass, I'm going to note that when Dr. Strange faced the Living Tribunal waaaay back in one of his old series, he was facing the Living Tribunal in essentially the LT's first real appearance.

    At the time, the LT was written as a magical being, who needed to use the 'incantation of oblivion' to destroy a planet. And actually used sorcery to battle against Strange.

    Fast forward a few years, and the Living Tribunal is a cosmic being that can wink entire universes away, and shut-down the Infinity Gauntlet. Casually.

    These two things are not the same. Strange and his magic did pretty well against a Living Tribunal that was written FAAAAAAAR below its more modern level, and this really shouldn't be used to judge anything.

    edit: And I called it, though I simulposted.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  14. #14
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iz_dabz View Post
    Ok so cyttorak doesn’t have a lot of feats. He is one of those beings who just doesn’t. Like TOAA doesn’t have a lot of feats, but we can take statements and cosmic hierarchy in play for scaling.
    Agamotto was going to kill Galactus. It nooot a stalemate. Agamotto has infinite energy in his realm, Galactus doesn’t. Galactus feels pain, and he was only fighting an aspect of Agamotto.
    Issue number? I'd like to look this up (again, it has been a long time since I've read it) for context.

    I never said vishanti is part of octessensce I just included them. And cyttorak was going to destroy them all for claims on dr strange.
    Issue number? If this was when Strange renounced his ties to the entities, as I recall there was nothing to demonstrate Cyttorak was going to kill everyone. The point was made that Cytorrak, like all of the other entities, wanted Strange to assist him, precisely BECAUSE he couldn't just win against them all.

    Living Tribunal invokes power from Raggaddoor, and he even claim that no one should be able to break them. The bands of raggadorr. Tribunal also relies on the protection of the seraphim shield, and cyttorak cracked it. I’m on my phone, so if u want I can send scans on discord or something.
    Covered above. The Living Tribunal, at that point, was being written as a being who required 'The Incantation of Oblivion' to destroy a planet. Who needed to use spells to battle against Strange. This was pretty much his first appearance.

    LATER appearances of the Living Tribunal bumped him to one of the most powerful cosmic beings around, capable of shutting down the Infinity Gauntlet on a whim, destroying entire universes, etc. Without using magic. Strange's fight against the Tribunal was when he was written as much, much less powerful.

    Also, the Living Tribunal in that appearance uses 'The Sign of the Seraphim', a spell meant to turn magic back on its user, NOT the Shield of the Seraphim. <-- this is a nitpick, but true.

    And loads of people, including Dormammu and others, have broken Strange's Seraphimic shield. It's impressive, but it's not on the level of 'blows up universes' or 'shuts down the infinity gauntlet'.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

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    No it was pretty clear living tribunal was the supreme judge of all creation at the time. And Dormammu and eternity destroyed each other for a while. And umar is pretty much equal to Dormammu. And zom is more powerful than 12 umars. And it took the living tribunal to banish zom. So it pretty clear, that living tribunal in that era, is still the same one of the current. Supreme judge of the multiverse of toaa. So yea, cyttorak crak a shield that living tribunal uses for protection. And he also invoke power from raggaddoorr and cyttorak was going to destroy him and other magical entities including vishanti at the same time.

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