Best Fighter in DC [Poll]

[WallyWestFlash]

I think its between Cas and Lady Shiva. I voted for Cas though.

They have fought each other right? Who won?

[Marik Swift]

I don't think Bruce should ever be included in the best fighters list. I mean he is a top tier fighter but I feel he's more of a benchmark that separates the A tier and the S tier. The real dispute is between the O-trio (Bronze Tiger, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon), Cassandra Cain, and Black Canary. my rankings

1. Cassandra Cain - she's basically a metahuman with how good she is, and she's younger so she'll only get better. if she hasn't surpassed everyone else, she will.

i believe these next three are actually interchangeable (when written properly) and slightly edge each other out in particular techniques. if I had to rank them arbitrarily

2. Lady Shiva - Shiva first because she's stayed consistently deadly and relevant.
3. Bronze Tiger - Ben goes here because, even though his skill waxes and wanes, he is always a top tier contender and I can see him being one good story away from reaching new heights. he got my vote just because I like him
4. Richard Dragon - I put Richard Dragon arbitrarily last for the trio because his star faded once the white savior trope died off and I don't see him ever reaching the same heights again short of a reinvention.

5. Black Canary - underrated combatant for a while but she's getting her due now more than before. I think she could outfight most of the others on the list.

Agree with this pretty much.

Bruce, Jason & Dick are already good at a bunch of other stuff, they don't need to be amongst the best fighters also. Them being being benchmarks for that line between master and grandmaster is where they should remain.

And a million times yes to Black Canary being in the top five.

[Lightning Rider]

I suppose in the comic book world, elite women like Black Canary and Shiva are so unbelievably skilled that they can overcome differences in size, bone density, etc. against elite male martial artists, right?

Not trying to be disrespectful or start a huge debate, but the question seems to ask who does best hand to hand, and people generally tend to underestimate the importance of size & strength. It's a different question to who is the most skilled.

[Ra-El]

Voted for Bronze Tiger because I like the character.

I really believe that Hawkman and Hawkwoman should be on the list, they lived thousands of lives and they're always warriors, no matter where or when they're born. Once their memories kicks in, they should be among the most well trained and experienced fighters on the DCU, no just in hand-to-hand but also using weapons. It just makes sense given the characters powers and backstory.

[Lightning Rider]

Voted for Bronze Tiger because I like the character.

I really believe that Hawkman and Hawkwoman should be on the list, they lived thousands of lives and they're always warriors, no matter where or when they're born. Once their memories kicks in, they should be among the most well trained and experienced fighters on the DCU, no just in hand-to-hand but also using weapons. It just makes sense given the characters powers and backstory.

They're definitely up there, but I think they probably reign when it comes to the use of weapons. Only Diana should really be able to hang with them.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I think its between Cas and Lady Shiva. I voted for Cas though.

They have fought each other right? Who won?

During Cass' original run, they fought 3 times.

First time Cass lost, as her brain wiring was all screwed up.

Swecond time, Cass lost because she was containing herself. Shiva ressurected her and asked for a proper fight. Then Cass won.

Third time, Cass pretty much wiped the floor with Shiva.


Current continuity, Cass has "beaten" Shiva once or twice, but didn't seem particularly interested in fighting her, so there weren't really "all out" fights.

[Ra-El]

They're definitely up there, but I think they probably reign when it comes to the use of weapons. Only Diana should really be able to hang with them.

I just feel that's a side from the Hawks that is overlooked.
Something cool they could do with them is that differently from the characters on the list, their fight style could no rely solely on asian martial arts, but also on different ancient styles. Maybe Carter is really into pankration or some medieval martial arts, maybe he was a samurai in one of his past lives.

[BohemiaDrinker]

They're definitely up there, but I think they probably reign when it comes to the use of weapons. Only Diana should really be able to hang with them.

Cass is well versed in most weapons, and has been shown to be able to learn everything that is to know about them in about half an hour or so.

Roy Harper is also known (historically) to be able to turn anything into a wepaon.

So there's them.

[failo.legendkiller]

Lady Shiva

[The Darknight Detective]

I suppose in the comic book world, elite women like Black Canary and Shiva are so unbelievably skilled that they can overcome differences in size, bone density, etc. against elite male martial artists, right?

Not trying to be disrespectful or start a huge debate, but the question seems to ask who does best hand to hand, and people generally tend to underestimate the importance of size & strength. It's a different question to who is the most skilled.

No, it's a fair point and I doubt anybody can name a woman in reality who could best a top male fighter.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Lady Shiva and Cass are at the top, as it should be.

[Frontier]

No, it's a fair point and I doubt anybody can name a woman in reality who could best a top male fighter.

I think when it comes to female vs men in hand-to-hand combat, it comes down to skill versus pure physical strength (where a man would likely have an advantage over a woman).

[The Darknight Detective]

I think when it comes to female vs men in hand-to-hand combat, it comes down to skill versus pure physical strength (where a man would likely have an advantage over a woman).

Right, but the skill level differential between the top fighters for both genders is going to be a lot smaller than the advantage in physical strength a man has. Seriously, would anybody bet against a man in that situation? It might not be fair, but males have the upper hand.

[Frontier]

Right, but the skill level differential between the top fighters for both genders is going to be a lot smaller than the advantage in physical strength a man has. Seriously, would anybody bet against a man in that situation? It might not be fair, but males have the upper hand.

But I don't think pure physical strength is always a decisive factor in a fight.

It would depend on what I knew about the woman and her level of skill.

[Lightning Rider]

Right, but the skill level differential between the top fighters for both genders is going to be a lot smaller than the advantage in physical strength a man has. Seriously, would anybody bet against a man in that situation? It might not be fair, but males have the upper hand.

This also applies to combatants of different sizes. At the elite level of combat sports/martial arts, after a certain amount of weight, the difference is just too much to overcome. (For example, A 140lb boxer would never even be allowed to fight a top 10 ranked 190lb fighter, let alone a heavyweight champion.)

But, it's comics, so it the in-universe rules matter more.