Best Fighter in DC [Poll]

[km_sus]

Who is the best fighter in DC? Vote here!

All theoretical matchups to determine the best are purely hand to hand, testing a characters full strength, speed, agility, skill and wits.

I've excluded super enhanced characters like Deathstroke and Midnighter. Characters with inconsistent feats (Prometheus) or little wider exposure (Constantine Drakon - although his speed feats would classify as metahuman anyway) aren't included either. Of course, Val Armorr (Karate Kid) is excluded, otherwise he would obviously steamroll the competition.

My ranking is:

1. Cassandra Cain
2. Richard Dragon
3. Lady Shiva
4. Bronze Tiger
5. Dick Grayson
6. Bruce Wayne
7. Connor Hawke
8. Jason Todd
9. Black Canary
10. Ra's al Ghul

[caj]

Why is Val Armorr excluded? I came in here to vote for him.

[km_sus]

Why is Val Armorr excluded? I came in here to vote for him.

Because he so obviously wins every time. At least with something like Richard Dragon vs. Cassandra Cain, there's at least a discussion to be had about who would win. Put Val against anyone on this list and he wins easily. It's like putting the Kid Flash on a "Who's the fastest Teen Titan" thread. I've just removed the obvious winner and the superhuman martial artists to make the thread a little more interesting than Val stomps.

[extra skater]

Voted for Bruce.

[Rac7d*]

Why is Jason on this list

[Celgress]

Cassandra Cain gets my vote.

[lemonpeace]

I don't think Bruce should ever be included in the best fighters list. I mean he is a top tier fighter but I feel he's more of a benchmark that separates the A tier and the S tier. The real dispute is between the O-trio (Bronze Tiger, Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon), Cassandra Cain, and Black Canary. my rankings

1. Cassandra Cain - she's basically a metahuman with how good she is, and she's younger so she'll only get better. if she hasn't surpassed everyone else, she will.

i believe these next three are actually interchangeable (when written properly) and slightly edge each other out in particular techniques. if I had to rank them arbitrarily

2. Lady Shiva - Shiva first because she's stayed consistently deadly and relevant.
3. Bronze Tiger - Ben goes here because, even though his skill waxes and wanes, he is always a top tier contender and I can see him being one good story away from reaching new heights. he got my vote just because I like him
4. Richard Dragon - I put Richard Dragon arbitrarily last for the trio because his star faded once the white savior trope died off and I don't see him ever reaching the same heights again short of a reinvention.

5. Black Canary - underrated combatant for a while but she's getting her due now more than before. I think she could outfight most of the others on the list.

[dietrich]

Who is the best fighter in DC? Vote here!

All theoretical matchups to determine the best are purely hand to hand, testing a characters full strength, speed, agility, skill and wits.

I've excluded super enhanced characters like Deathstroke and Midnighter. Characters with inconsistent feats (Prometheus) or little wider exposure (Constantine Drakon - although his speed feats would classify as metahuman anyway) aren't included either. Of course, Val Armorr (Karate Kid) is excluded, otherwise he would obviously steamroll the competition.

My ranking is:

1. Cassandra Cain
2. Richard Dragon
3. Lady Shiva
4. Bronze Tiger
5. Dick Grayson
6. Bruce Wayne
7. Connor Hawke
8. Jason Todd
9. Black Canary
10. Ra's al Ghul

You've got jokes. love how Karate Kid isn't even on this list. Also wasn't Duke training Cass recently?
The fact that you deliberately left off the best fighters because there is no contest shows that you should rename this to good fighters in the DC since the ones are excluded.

[hairys]

You've got jokes. love how Karate Kid isn't even on this list. Also wasn't Duke training Cass recently?
The fact that you deliberately left off the best fighters because there is no contest shows that you should rename this to good fighters in the DC since the ones are excluded.

That's bad writing if true and can be ignored. Agree on Karate Kid, though.

[lemonpeace]

That's bad writing if true and can be ignored. Agree on Karate Kid, though.

they have it the other way round, Cass has been sparring with and training Duke since their time on Outsiders together.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Lets just pretend that Karate Kid has had several hundred years of eugenics to make him peak human :P

[Sutekh]

Lets just pretend that Karate Kid has had several hundred years of eugenics to make him peak human :P

His knowledge of martial arts is more or less superhuman anyway, since Levitz established in the '80s (IIRC) that the world he grew up on, Lythyl, had extradimensional pockets within it that existed outside of normal spacetime, and allowed people to spend virtual years learning stuff or doing stuff (or just hiding out from the authorities) while no time at all passed in the outside world, and, since time was wonky, they didn't get any older! So he was able to master decades worth of fighting skills, while still a teenager.

It was a clever way to justify his abilities (since it can take a lifetime to master even one martial art, let alone dozens!).

But, as for the folks on the poll, I'd put Richard Dragon or Lady Shiva at the top, just because they are hyper-focused, while many of the others on that list, like Batman, have a lot of other stuff going on / more demands on their limited attention.

Top tier heroes would be (Karate Kid), Batman, Black Canary and Bronze Tiger, with Dick and Jason ranking lower.

(Karate Kid isn't on the poll, and I'm fine with that. Legion characters are best served kept the hell away from modern-day comparisons, characters and events, IMO.)

[lemonpeace]

You've got jokes. love how Karate Kid isn't even on this list. Also wasn't Duke training with Cass recently?
The fact that you deliberately left off the best fighters because there is no contest shows that you should rename this to good fighters in the DC since the ones are excluded.

while I think Duke definitely should be in the conversation one day (especially since he's trained with 4 of the people on the list), he hasn't demonstrated the same level of martial arts proficiency as the top tiers yet. i kinda wish Williamson would've tapped Duke to pop up in the tournament over in Robin too, that would've been a golden opportunity to really flex what his mentors have taught him.

although I do agree this list is kinda iffy. I'd probably put Canary higher on the list for sure, and Bruce would go lower.

Karate Kid is weird to me. maybe I just don't know enough about him but IIRC he typically isn't opportunity in the same landscape as the others (being in the future) and he's working with 3000 years worth of martial arts knowledge, likely including info on everyone on the list and beyond. to me that makes it kinda hard to adequately scale him to the others. I guess since he is still a human relying on skill would have to be a top spot contender but I think he needs updated showings against contemporary figures to better scale him.

[Ra-El]

Karate Kid is weird to me. maybe I just don't know enough about him but IIRC he typically isn't opportunity in the same landscape as the others (being in the future) and he's working with 3000 years worth of martial arts knowledge, likely including info on everyone on the list and beyond. to me that makes it kinda hard to adequately scale him to the others. I guess since he is still a human relying on skill would have to be a top spot contender but I think he needs updated showings against contemporary figures to better scale him.

You know who also have over 3000 years worth of martial arts knowledge? Hawkman and Hawkwoman! They should be on the list, it just made so much sense for them to be on it.

Unfortunately, there not much to support it in regard of feats, but I hope someday, some writer will see the sea of opportunities the Hawk's resurrection cycle provides.

[Frontier]

You know who also have over 3000 years worth of martial arts knowledge? Hawkman and Hawkwoman! They should be on the list, it just made so much sense for them to be on it.

Unfortunately, there not much to support it in regard of feats, but I hope someday, some writer will see the sea of opportunities the Hawk's resurrection cycle provides.

It probably doesn't help that the Hawks are more like to bash something over the head with a mace than fight hand-to-hand.