I think its between Cas and Lady Shiva. I voted for Cas though.
They have fought each other right? Who won?
Dick Grayson
Bruce Wayne
Cassandra Cain
Richard Dragon
Lady Shiva
Bronze Tiger
Connor Hawke
Black Canary
Ra's al Ghul
Jason Todd
I think its between Cas and Lady Shiva. I voted for Cas though.
They have fought each other right? Who won?
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Agree with this pretty much.
Bruce, Jason & Dick are already good at a bunch of other stuff, they don't need to be amongst the best fighters also. Them being being benchmarks for that line between master and grandmaster is where they should remain.
And a million times yes to Black Canary being in the top five.
I suppose in the comic book world, elite women like Black Canary and Shiva are so unbelievably skilled that they can overcome differences in size, bone density, etc. against elite male martial artists, right?
Not trying to be disrespectful or start a huge debate, but the question seems to ask who does best hand to hand, and people generally tend to underestimate the importance of size & strength. It's a different question to who is the most skilled.
Voted for Bronze Tiger because I like the character.
I really believe that Hawkman and Hawkwoman should be on the list, they lived thousands of lives and they're always warriors, no matter where or when they're born. Once their memories kicks in, they should be among the most well trained and experienced fighters on the DCU, no just in hand-to-hand but also using weapons. It just makes sense given the characters powers and backstory.
During Cass' original run, they fought 3 times.
First time Cass lost, as her brain wiring was all screwed up.
Swecond time, Cass lost because she was containing herself. Shiva ressurected her and asked for a proper fight. Then Cass won.
Third time, Cass pretty much wiped the floor with Shiva.
Current continuity, Cass has "beaten" Shiva once or twice, but didn't seem particularly interested in fighting her, so there weren't really "all out" fights.
ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.
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I just feel that's a side from the Hawks that is overlooked.
Something cool they could do with them is that differently from the characters on the list, their fight style could no rely solely on asian martial arts, but also on different ancient styles. Maybe Carter is really into pankration or some medieval martial arts, maybe he was a samurai in one of his past lives.
ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.
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Lady Shiva and Cass are at the top, as it should be.
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Right, but the skill level differential between the top fighters for both genders is going to be a lot smaller than the advantage in physical strength a man has. Seriously, would anybody bet against a man in that situation? It might not be fair, but males have the upper hand.
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This also applies to combatants of different sizes. At the elite level of combat sports/martial arts, after a certain amount of weight, the difference is just too much to overcome. (For example, A 140lb boxer would never even be allowed to fight a top 10 ranked 190lb fighter, let alone a heavyweight champion.)
But, it's comics, so it the in-universe rules matter more.