View Poll Results: Best Fighter(s)

Voters
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  • Dick Grayson

    3 3.53%
  • Bruce Wayne

    17 20.00%
  • Cassandra Cain

    18 21.18%
  • Richard Dragon

    10 11.76%
  • Lady Shiva

    16 18.82%
  • Bronze Tiger

    9 10.59%
  • Connor Hawke

    1 1.18%
  • Black Canary

    7 8.24%
  • Ra's al Ghul

    1 1.18%
  • Jason Todd

    3 3.53%
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  1. #76
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    The skill gap between Mountain and Connor is pretty much the skill gap between Cass or Shiva and Bats, though.
    *ahem*
    Funny post covid I'd have though most cap stores would have gone out of business. Quite the surprise.
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  2. #77
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Wasnít it established recently in a Batman issue (possibly in Kingís run) that Bronze Tiger could beat or at least fight Bruce to a draw if itís just one on one with no weapons?

  3. #78
    Been lurking since '08 Marik Swift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prepmaster View Post
    Why is Nightwing ranked higher than Bane? Didnt he get humiliated by Bane once?

    Also where would you rank Harley considering she beat Cheshire in Batman comics?

    Certain comics you just have to take with a grain of salt and this is definitely one of them, cause neither Catwoman nor Harley should stand a chance even against the weakest League of Assassin's members, much less Cheshire & Dark Archer.

    Overall it's sometimes good to keep in panel feats and in universe facts separate. League of Assassin's members are generally used as fodder with even untrained people being capable of beating them, but in universe they are some of the greatest.

    For a thread like this, you would pretty much use universe facts and not panel feats, otherwise you'll always run into inconsistencies (even for Batman).
    Last edited by Marik Swift; 01-22-2021 at 03:15 AM.

  4. #79
    Been lurking since '08 Marik Swift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by km_sus View Post
    Since I've gotten a few comments about it: Jason definitely deserves to be in the discussion when talking about great fighters. While he won't be at the top of many people's list, he does have a lot of skill. For one, he's gone through the exact same training/pilgrimage that Bruce undertook and then some. He's been a student of Shiva, Bruce and Bronze Tiger. His strength feats are insane - just as good as Bruce. While Post-Crisis Jason is a punk, post-Flashpoint Jason has received a massive power boost. He's beaten Deathstroke, Shiva, Ra's (stupid plot reasons, but they all still technically happened) and has fought Bruce and Cass while holding his ground.

    He at least deserves some consideration.
    I'm not saying Jason doesn't deserve some recognition, but it just seems odd to me that you would consider Jason before Dick?

    Sure, Jason has those feats, but it's comics, so some of these feats you have to take with a grain of salt. And even if you want to consider it a feat, Dick himself has beaten Shiva in the past, as have people like Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon, etc, lost to people who have no business beating them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    At least right Death Metal Wildcat (and Dinahs connection to the JSA) and Richard Dragon didn't exist in the current continuity and there was no mentioning of Shiva training her post flashpoint.

    Apart from that Richard Dragon trained Huntress and Barbara but not Dinah, she iirc didn't even new how he was when someone brought him in for their fight against the 12 Brothers.

    And I'm not sure if call that what Shiva gave her really training, and technically at lest Bruce, Tim and Jason got also "training" by her, so that's not really anything that lets her stand out.

    I'm not saying that she is not a strong fighter, but being "the best" or being more skilled than Batman that's something I don't see (especially post flashpoint).


    Question here is also in general what version of the character do you really use as reference. Many characters got imo boost between OYL and Falsh Point and are now post flashpoint back to their "classic" power level.
    I generally just see Bruce as a jack of all trades, master of none. He learned from everyone, but certainly didn't master any of their style, but rather simply just learned them so that he would know how to counter them.

    Dinah on the other hand has pretty much been retcon in almost all continuities to have been training since she was a kid and has has never stopped training consistently ever since, whereas Bruce probably started training when he was like 18 and certainly only finds sparse time to train.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post
    I'm not saying Jason doesn't deserve some recognition, but it just seems odd to me that you would consider Jason before Dick?
    They should imo pretty evenly matched, I would see Jason ahead due to his LoA and All Caste Training (but I'm biased).

    And realisticly Dick should actually be in a pretty poor physical condition at this point, due to all "Ric" stuff. I mean it would require a lot of training to get back into shape after being in Koma for month, but the comics ignored that sofar.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post
    I generally just see Bruce as a jack of all trades, master of none. He learned from everyone, but certainly didn't master any of their style, but rather simply just learned them so that he would know how to counter them.
    But that's typically not how it is portrait in the comics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post
    Dinah on the other hand has pretty much been retcon in almost all continuities to have been training since she was a kid and has has never stopped training consistently ever since, whereas Bruce probably started training when he was like 18 and certainly only finds sparse time to train.
    I don't see Dinah really getting much more opportunity to train than Bruce, and can anyway not properly train without a good sparing partner ...

  7. #82
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    But that's typically not how it is portrait in the comics.
    Nope. Top-tier detective, escape artist, fighter, strategist, brain... he's a master of a variety of things. Now whether or not anybody could be as skilled in so many pursuits, well, as has been mentioned a few times already, it it the comics.
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by prepmaster View Post
    Whats wrong with Batman being able to beat up his underlings (even though its an alternate version of him)?
    I didn't even touch on the details. The fact that is Flashpoint hinder its consideration based on the general crappiness of that work.

  9. #84
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Hey, anyone can give me suggestions to good fighting comics? Not just DC, but comics where the fight is a really important part of the story, and the artist is really good in action, like Waid and Samnee's Black Widow run.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by prepmaster View Post
    In weightlifting, the strongest man can lift twice as much weight as the strongest woman. Men can simply grow more muscles than woman.

    Didnt Cass get beat up by Flashpoint Batman in less than 2 minutes?


    A good rule of thumb is to ignore Tom King's stuff

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by prepmaster View Post
    Whats wrong with Batman being able to beat up his underlings (even though its an alternate version of him)?
    For starters this version of Batman was way past his prime and was outnumbered. If we are talking about realism, his heart should have given out just going up against two of these people.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    For starters this version of Batman was way past his prime and was outnumbered. If we are talking about realism, his heart should have given out just going up against two of these people.
    Yeah, that version wasn't Bruce, but Thomas Wayne.

    Bruce started training at a young age, before he was even a teenager and studied under masters.

    Thomas Wayne only became Batman after he was a full grown adult. I don't know where he got his training, but the willingness to just shoot his enemies worked to his advantage too.

    Frankly, any member of the family should have been enough to bring him down.

  13. #88
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Nah. Mountain is a zero on the fighter scale, while Babs is at least good (though not nearly as good as Cass or Shiva).
    I didn't say Babs, I said Bats. As in "The Batman".

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    *ahem*
    Funny post covid I'd have though most cap stores would have gone out of business. Quite the surprise.
    I didn't understand this sentence (we're not post-covid and I'm not sure if I know what a cap store is), but the sarcasm kind of bleeds trough, so:

    What I'm saying here is actually pretty correct. We've got people like Batman and Bronze Tiger, whose training takes them as far as a "normal" human can go. And then we have Shiva and, specially, Cass, whose brain wiring has been ttinkered with into turning them into fighting machines. For all intents and purposes, they're almost meta. This has been shown, multiple times, both pre and post Flashpoint.

    If you take a no nonsense, no restraining herself Cass, as per comic book logic and showings, there would be no diference for her between fighting Batman and, say, Ted Kord.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

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  14. #89
    Incredible Member prepmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    If you take a no nonsense, no restraining herself Cass, as per comic book logic and showings, there would be no diference for her between fighting Batman and, say, Ted Kord.
    I find it funny that people vote for Cass here but think about it, does anyone really see any writer putting Cass up against other Batman's villains like Bane for example and showing that she is superior to Batman in fighting h2h against his villains? So in "Batman" comics, would you see the likes of Bat villains like Bane being taken down by Cass more easily in a fight than the main protagonist Batman himself? Like Batman, Dick would struggle against Bane but somehow Cass is gonna have an easier time than them in fighting against him? lol
    Last edited by prepmaster; 01-24-2021 at 06:51 AM.

  15. #90
    Incredible Member prepmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    I didn't even touch on the details. The fact that is Flashpoint hinder its consideration based on the general crappiness of that work.
    Sorry but no writer is gonna write "Batman" comics to show how Cass is gonna take down Batman villains more easily than the main protagonist Batman himself even in just physical fights.

    Batman himself has a record of beating multiple rogues in enclosed space at the same time on many occasions. How? Nerve strikes and the use of smoke grenades and other gadgets.




    So the idea of an alternate version of Batman being able to beat up multiple underlings trained by the main version of Batman is not far off.
    Last edited by prepmaster; 01-24-2021 at 06:40 AM.

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