Heroes Reborn is coming back

[mace11]

Yep. "Planet wide events" or "effects every corner of the Marvel Universe" -- and they completely ignore 70% of the planet, i.e. the underwater civilizations. Or Europe. Or Asia. Or Africa. Or South America. Or any part of North America except New York.

Well wakanda plays a really big part in planet wide events,more so these days and that's in marvel africa.

[Digifiend]

IIRC it delayed Savage Avengers and the Thor, Captain America and Iron Man on-goings for a month.

Cap appears to have been delayed for some other reason, as it's next series, United States of Captain America, has ended up launching before the old one finished.

Also, Champions was delayed a month too - there was an issue the week before Young Squadron in May, then nothing in June.

[Daedra]

no that's not the same logic at all. the logic is there are more than 5-6 good writers in existence. what people are reacting to are stylistic differences because the majority of writers that come to marvel were successful prior to coming to marvel and many have relatively successful writing projects going on while they write for marvel.

like that was a great example you just gave. who says a good marvel comic has to engage with sufficiently with continuity? as if there aren't really good comics/stories that take place on alternative universities or are more intentionally self-contained.

I’m sorry but Aaron’s writing lacks any internal consistency, even within the same issue coherence keeps jumping the shark, if I have to shut my brain in order to enjoy a comic book I might as well skip it entirely, nothing of consequence will be lost.

[Tracks]

I’m sorry but Aaron’s writing lacks any internal consistency, even within the same issue coherence keeps jumping the shark, if I have to shut my brain in order to enjoy a comic book I might as well skip it entirely, nothing of consequence will be lost.

where's the lack of internal consistency? i think the fair criticism of Aaron is he doesn't care about broader continuity. Within issue, he tends to include a fair amount of exposition to explain the internal logic of his fights or plot decisions.

[Reviresco]

Well wakanda plays a really big part in planet wide events,more so these days and that's in marvel africa.

Depending on your definition of big, that's still a recent thing, i.e. since / because of the Black Panther movie.

[Reviresco]

where's the lack of internal consistency? i think the fair criticism of Aaron is he doesn't care about broader continuity. Within issue, he tends to include a fair amount of exposition to explain the internal logic of his fights or plot decisions.

There was zero logic or sense in any of Aaron's Phoenix Force stuff. Or his Prehistoric Avengers.

[Tracks]

There was zero logic or sense in any of Aaron's Phoenix Force stuff. Or his Prehistoric Avengers.

Thinking an idea is bad doesn't mean there's no established logic. What specifically was unexplained about the phoenix force stuff, for instance.

[Daedra]

where's the lack of internal consistency? i think the fair criticism of Aaron is he doesn't care about broader continuity. Within issue, he tends to include a fair amount of exposition to explain the internal logic of his fights or plot decisions.

It’s been pointed out profusely over the last 2 years +, the logic is all over the place ( literally from page to page) and no amount of expository dialogue is able to hide the glaring inconsistencies

[Daedra]

There was zero logic or sense in any of Aaron's Phoenix Force stuff. Or his Prehistoric Avengers.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg

[Tracks]

It’s been pointed out profusely over the last 2 years +, the logic is all over the place ( literally from page to page) and no amount of expository dialogue is able to hide the glaring inconsistencies

no, people dislike the ideas because he doesn't put much weight on continuity and sometimes explains caveats away in a panel or two. that's different from them being illogical. Share a glaring inconsistency from the arc that was just mentioned, especially if we're talking about within issue consistency.

Aaron's stories are simple, the threads are pretty easy to follow, and the logic is usually pretty shallow. Those are fair criticisms. Because of that, you might not like the ideas because they don't have much reverence for what came before it. That's different from them being illogical. Those are very distinct things.

[Reviresco]

Thinking an idea is bad doesn't mean there's no established logic. What specifically was unexplained about the phoenix force stuff, for instance.

Dear god. Where to start? It wasn't just ONE idea that was bad. It was stacks and stacks of bad, and stupid ideas. Where's the logic in having a fighting tournament, only to pick a first round loser as the host? Or the phoenix even having a fighting tournament to choose a host.

[Phoenixx9]

Dear god. Where to start? It wasn't just ONE idea that was bad. It was stacks and stacks of bad, and stupid ideas. Where's the logic in having a fighting tournament, only to pick a first round loser as the host? Or the phoenix even having a fighting tournament to choose a host.

Yes, especially when.....[Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


"Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

Lol, sorry, just HAD to input that. If Aaron had but listened, then none of that....stuff would have happened.

[Tracks]

Dear god. Where to start? It wasn't just ONE idea that was bad. It was stacks and stacks of bad, and stupid ideas. Where's the logic in having a fighting tournament, only to pick a first round loser as the host? Or the phoenix even having a fighting tournament to choose a host.

Like I said. You not liking idea. That's fair. That's subjective and you're welcome to your opinion.

Where's the internal logic though?

He's laid that pretty clearly. He's framed Mephisto as an ancient and consistent enemy of the Avengers, which have consistently been made up of certain specific ancient/cosmic energies on earth. So the short logic of why the Phoenix came is Namor called it and Moon Knight intercepted. The logic of why it needs a host is because of this overarching Mephisto storyline that all these specific forces/energies can sense (which T'Challa has noted). Moon Knight then used the last of whatever random cosmic moon energy/will he had to surrender the Phoenix. Hence the motivation for the tournament. The Phoenix was on earth with several willing/interested hosts, hence the tournament.

In addition, it wasn't actually a fighting tournament, it just presented as such. Hence how Shang-Chi could win a round without ever fighting. The Phoenix was learning the various characters, and eventually choosing Echo. They state that pretty clearly. Some of the Phoenix's preferred hosts rejected it, and the ones that wanted it most were uninteresting. They painted the tournament as a sham from the beginning.

Like I said. You can think ALL of these are BAD ideas. That's perfectly fine. But Aaron doesn't just disregard the logic. He has Echo explain all of this. He has T'Challa explain all of this. There's an answer to every why you could ask that he spells out. Within the story, he lays seeds for what'll happen later.

The issue? A lot happens in a few issues, and then he very much wipes the table clean and starts a completely new story with little room for the characters to react. The fact that we just finished another pseudo-Avengers arc and the team has barely gotten to explore the fact that Echo/Phoenix is on the team now is a stylistic choice that I can understand people not liking.

[Daedra]

no, people dislike the ideas because he doesn't put much weight on continuity and sometimes explains caveats away in a panel or two. that's different from them being illogical. Share a glaring inconsistency from the arc that was just mentioned, especially if we're talking about within issue consistency.

Aaron's stories are simple, the threads are pretty easy to follow, and the logic is usually pretty shallow. Those are fair criticisms. Because of that, you might not like the ideas because they don't have much reverence for what came before it. That's different from them being illogical. Those are very distinct things.

“Vibranium remembers being an asteroid therefore I can now use super speed” I should’t have to say anything more, I started to read avengers in the 80’s and I swear I never had to turn off my critical thinking in order to enjoy a good comic adventure.

[Tracks]

“Vibranium remembers being an asteroid therefore I can now use super speed” I should’t have to say anything more, I started to read avengers in the 80’s and I swear I never had to turn off my critical thinking in order to enjoy a good comic adventure.

again, you not liking something is fine. Black Panther absorbing kinetic energy from a character with super speed and converting it to his own speed the way he has done with strength or energy blasts in the past doesn't require some stretch of the imagination...especially since other characters have done it to speedsters in the past. People from the Black Panther appreciation thread were talking about how it makes logical sense why he could do that, he just hasn't.

Jabare and I got into a debate about Aaron's use of Blade too. In Heroes Reborn he casually transformed into a bat, when he's only done that once before (while mind controlled). In the same week Ewing said Blade didn't know how to do that.

Aaron is uses the logic of a particular character over the continuity. Whereas many writers are the opposite. For instance, with Blade there are several stories that don't make complete sense if Blade has always known how to fly. But also Blade having all the powers of a Marvel vampire, it makes no logical sense why he can't fly. Aaron gives weight to the latter, and so a lot of his characters will do new things that should logically be within their skillset, even if they've never done anything similar in continuity. Aaron does this with Black Panther ALL the time.