Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19
  1. #1

    Default Is there only one Beyonder (even after retcon) or several?

    The original Beyonder that visited the 616 Universe during Secret Wars was one singular beeing. Even after the retcon it was implied to be one single beeing. Yet throughout the Marvel Multiverse, we see the Beyonder visiting several alternate Universes and then we have the Beyonder in the TV show Avengers Assemble or Spiderman. These seem to be different from the Beyonder that visited Eart 616. However since the Beyonder is from the Beyonder Realm which is outside of the Multiverse, there should not be several versions of him. So how can this be explained?

  2. #2

    Default

    the multiple retcons have gotten annoying over the years. the one where he was an immature cosmic cube was truly nutty. But whatever-- it's comics, Jake.

  3. #3
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Latverian Embassy
    Posts
    16,563

    Default

    I'd like to know that myself. We did see a host of Beyonders that were engineering all the incursions in Hickman's Avengers/New Avengers arc leading up to Secret Wars 2015. They were shown to be quite alien looking in New Avengers #29 as compared to the Beyonder in Secret Wars II.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #4
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Latverian Embassy
    Posts
    16,563

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    the multiple retcons have gotten annoying over the years. the one where he was an immature cosmic cube was truly nutty. But whatever-- it's comics, Jake.
    In Englehart's FF story he also made the connection with the Molecule Man and the Beyonder. But in an FF annual a few years later Owen broke away from it and escaped back to Earth.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I'd like to know that myself. We did see a host of Beyonders that were engineering all the incursions in Hickman's Avengers/New Avengers arc leading up to Secret Wars 2015. They were shown to be quite alien looking in New Avengers #29 as compared to the Beyonder in Secret Wars II.
    The Beyonders are an entire race that resided in the Beyonder Realm. There are anywhere from hundreds to quadrillions of them. So these are individual beeings and it does make sense that individual Beyonder A is "visiting" Earth 24 000 while individual Beyonder B is "visiting" Earth 17.

    The Original pre Retcon Beyonder/as well as cosmic cube Beyonder however is one single entity. He comes from the Beyonder Realm which isnt part of the marvel Multiverse, so there are no other version of him.Yet whe see him visiting Earth 616 during secret wars, then there is the Beyonder from Spiderman, Avengers Assemble and other Marvel Universes all of which seem to be other version of the original/cosmic cube Beyonder. However because the Beyonder Realm lacks a Multiverse, there should be no other version of him. So who are these other versions of pre retcon/cosmic cube Beyonder?

  6. #6
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The Astral Shores of the Pacific
    Posts
    6,504

    Default

    Funny thing about the multiverse. In the most simplest terms it is based on the concept that a single event can have multiple outcomes. I get that beings outside of the multiverse should not be impacted. But think of the multiverse as a pool of water. As long as you stay outside of it, you remain dry. But dare step even so much as a toe in it? The minute the Beyonder entered the multiverse, at least two possibilities -- two realities -- formed, both valid. The first reality is that the Beyonder entered the multiverse to explore. The second reality is that he did not enter the multiverse at all. And just like that you have at least two Beyonders. The one that did, and the one that didn't. The only way you can only have one Beyonder is if he never looked into the pinhole to spy the multiverse and thus remained forever outside of the multiverse as a single, unique entity.

    All that said, who knows how Marvel will spin it. They could go against the logic and establish that there is only the Beyonder that manifests across all facets of reality as one entity whose actions and consequences are very much linear. They could say the various Beyonders are all somehow quantum entangled so as to appear to be different versions, but in actuality they are one and the same being. They could say it's the same Beyonder, albeit diffracted by Time/Space so as to appear to be different versions. Marvel tends to maximize possibilities, rather than limit stories to an immutable set of rules and/or logic. You just have to go with the flow, or you'll go mad with all of the contradictions and nonsensical departures from what is supposed to represent semi-credible fiction.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,991

    Default

    I remember him being an Inhuman mutant who was kicked out of the society for being too powerful and childish

  8. #8
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant God View Post
    I remember him being an Inhuman mutant who was kicked out of the society for being too powerful and childish
    I believe the general rule is to ignore anything Bendis that makes no sense and flies in the face of both continuity and common sense.

  9. #9
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,728

    Default

    There was a Secret Wars story in Fantastic Four that expanded on the original Beyonder (when Ben was leader).
    "Cable was right!"

  10. #10
    Mighty Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    1,135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    There was a Secret Wars story in Fantastic Four that expanded on the original Beyonder (when Ben was leader).
    That’s what celestialbeyonder is referring to above
    “The Scarlet Witch is the only thing that will scare them. It’s the only thing they’ll respect.” - Hope Summers, Avengers vs X-Men #7

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,886

    Default

    The Beyonders tend to come at you with big armies of forces. They did this to Thor and Hyperion and killed them. So I wonder how do you kill a god, and whatever Hyperion is (Superman?). Then, how are they both back and alive again? Oh, I know Reed Richards “made” everyone again after Secret Wars 2015, but does that mean they are not real? (My head hurts).

  12. #12
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The Astral Shores of the Pacific
    Posts
    6,504

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    The Beyonders tend to come at you with big armies of forces. They did this to Thor and Hyperion and killed them. So I wonder how do you kill a god, and whatever Hyperion is (Superman?). Then, how are they both back and alive again? Oh, I know Reed Richards “made” everyone again after Secret Wars 2015, but does that mean they are not real? (My head hurts).
    Weren't those basically the same group of Beyonders that killed the Living Tribunal in the blink of an eye? It just goes to show you that writers are the only true omnipotent beings in the fictional universe. Anything goes, whether it makes sense or not.

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,886

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Weren't those basically the same group of Beyonders that killed the Living Tribunal in the blink of an eye? It just goes to show you that writers are the only true omnipotent beings in the fictional universe. Anything goes, whether it makes sense or not.
    When Pym saw the Beyonders systematically kill the Living Tribunal, it was planned and deliberate. When Thor and Hyperion called the Beyonders out, I guess the Beyonders lost it and rushed them en masse. Just like Doom called the Beyonders out and they rushed out enraged.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,377

    Default

    I'm nearly certain that a vague, semi-one-off story in Two in One has the Thing encountering a 'race' of Beyonders who have stolen Counter Earth (or one of the, lol) and this would have been a year or so after the original death of Adam Warlock, the cosmic suicide.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  15. #15
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The Astral Shores of the Pacific
    Posts
    6,504

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I'm nearly certain that a vague, semi-one-off story in Two in One has the Thing encountering a 'race' of Beyonders who have stolen Counter Earth (or one of the, lol) and this would have been a year or so after the original death of Adam Warlock, the cosmic suicide.
    Yes, I remember that story -- and if I remember correctly at some point Marvel established that those Beyonders were not the Beyonder of Secret Wars. It was merely a coincidence that they have the same name.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •