If You Could Revive "All-Star Squadron"...

[CaptCleghorn]

I think any attempt at the book would bomb today. I still hope for omniboo of the old series (they're my most wanted series besides the '92 JSA) but I can't see any new series working today at all, unless it was just the JSA, and even then, I don't think it could be strict with history, sadly, and would have to have more international appeal somehow.

Unfortunately DC and many fans agree with you. But these threads aren't "DC should bring them back!", although that heavily implied. These are for our imaginations and likes to be made know and to find out who thinks like us and who differs. We have the option to go wild with our thoughts and given the medium of the forum, I am glad we do have the chance to go on about our likes from the past (lierally the past).

[CaptCleghorn]

I don't know that Roy Thomas could do it now (for a mixture of reasons) but I don't know anyone else who has the particular set of skills to qualify them for the job.

What made ALL-STAR SQUADRON what it was, was that dedication to telling the American involvement in World War Two, from Pearl Harbor onward, not skipping over significant events, and going through the timeline. And, at the same time, referencing the actual published comic book stories from the period.

No other writer is willing to do that. They would rather jump around in time and they would rather make up their own continuity than use the actual stories that were written in the period.

Roy Thomas' love for that era was a singular quality. His dedication to making it all work is inspirational to anyone concerned with continuity and cohesiveness in their funny books.

[hairys]

Between films and book and also comics, I'm all WW2-ed out.

Let's switch the venue.

When Roy Thomas started All-Star Squadron, the country was still just trying to get over the Vietnam War. Nowadays, there's been some distance put between the Vietnam War and the present time that's very similar to the distance between when All-Star Squadron was created and WW2 took place (~40 years). So I'd much rather see a Vietnam-drafted Squadron than WW2 again.

[MajorHoy]

Between films and book and also comics, I'm all WW2-ed out.

Let's switch the venue.

When Roy Thomas started All-Star Squadron, the country was still just trying to get over the Vietnam War. Nowadays, there's been some distance put between the Vietnam War and the present time that's very similar to the distance between when All-Star Squadron was created and WW2 took place (~40 years). So I'd much rather see a Vietnam-drafted Squadron than WW2 again.

Huh?

Many of us had gotten over the Vietnam War back in the 1970s, not 1981 when the All-Star Squadron began.

And the crap about changing it to a Vietnam War-era focused book wouldn't have ANY connection to what All-Star Squadron was about in the first place. For WWII, the USA was ATTACKED in our own territory (Hawaii wasn't a state yet) before we officially declared war. Vietnam wasn't anything like that. There wouldn't be the sense of urgency to mobilize ALL of the U.S.-based superheroes when the country itself wasn't threatened with invasion, and the level of patriotism in people rushing to recruitment centers wasn't anything like it was after December 7, 1941.

[CaptCleghorn]

Huh?

Many of us had gotten over the Vietnam War back in the 1970s, not 1981 when the All-Star Squadron began.

And the crap about changing it to a Vietnam War-era focused book wouldn't have ANY connection to what All-Star Squadron was about in the first place. For WWII, the USA was ATTACKED in our own territory (Hawaii wasn't a state yet) before we officially declared war. Vietnam wasn't anything like that. There wouldn't be the sense of urgency to mobilize ALL of the U.S.-based superheroes when the country itself wasn't threatened with invasion, and the level of patriotism in people rushing to recruitment centers wasn't anything like it was after December 7, 1941.

You don't seem to have a handle on the thread. Let's go back to the original post and see what it was designed for.

If you could revive All-Star Squadron, what would you do with it?

So, we're NOT talking about what the series originally was, but what changes would be made to it.

[MajorHoy]

. . . So, we're NOT talking about what the series originally was, but what changes would be made to it.

But to make it something Vietnam War-era as opposed to WWII wouldn't have ANY link whatsoever to the concept.

It would be like re-imagining Superman as a lesbian from the center of the Earth who had mystic visions and the ability to shoot rainbow-colored beams out of her boobs. Why call that character "Superman"?

[DrNewGod]

But to make it something Vietnam War-era as opposed to WWII wouldn't have ANY link whatsoever to the concept.

It would be like re-imagining Superman as a lesbian from the center of the Earth who had mystic visions and the ability to shoot rainbow-colored beams out of her boobs. Why call that character "Superman"?

I share your thoughts on the matter. In fairness, however, the OP did pose a question that implicitly asks how else it might be done.

[CaptCleghorn]

But to make it something Vietnam War-era as opposed to WWII wouldn't have ANY link whatsoever to the concept.

It would be like re-imagining Superman as a lesbian from the center of the Earth who had mystic visions and the ability to shoot rainbow-colored beams out of her boobs. Why call that character "Superman"?

And what do you think the concept of All-Star Squadron is? There's a war overseas and the adventures of the combined heroes on the homefront are featured dealing with super-criminals and enemy saboteurs. All that's not lining up is the generation involved. Seems like a very viable concept to me and well within the spirit of the original Squadron book.

[hairys]

Huh?

Many of us had gotten over the Vietnam War back in the 1970s, not 1981 when the All-Star Squadron began.

America was not over the Vietnam War by 1981, lol. Think about all the movies made about it during the 80s and also the great comic book The 'Nam published by Marvel.

And the crap about changing it to a Vietnam War-era focused book wouldn't have ANY connection to what All-Star Squadron was about in the first place. For WWII, the USA was ATTACKED in our own territory (Hawaii wasn't a state yet) before we officially declared war. Vietnam wasn't anything like that. There wouldn't be the sense of urgency to mobilize ALL of the U.S.-based superheroes when the country itself wasn't threatened with invasion, and the level of patriotism in people rushing to recruitment centers wasn't anything like it was after December 7, 1941.

Yes, I'm well aware of the differences between the two wars. Those differences are ripe for exploration and would make for a good comic book, imo, rather than another boring, redundant WW2 piece of literature. (Your mileage may vary).

And believe it or not, many young, naive American men did enter the Vietnam War thinking they were going to do some good and would return to the U.S. hailed as heroes like their fathers were when they fought in WW2. Obviously, reality was much different, both in the quagmire that Vietnam became and in the national sentiment for it as the years wore on. Again, this could be explored using the Squadron characters chosen for this hypothetical book .

[DrNewGod]

And what do you think the concept of All-Star Squadron is? There's a war overseas and the adventures of the combined heroes on the homefront are featured dealing with super-criminals and enemy saboteurs. All that's not lining up is the generation involved. Seems like a very viable concept to me and well within the spirit of the original Squadron book.

The Major does have a point in that WWII was the period that coincided with the dawn of the comicbook superhero, and more, there's an attitude congruity that probably doesn't work in any other historical setting. The way WWII is nostalgically remembered by many (without warrant, I'll admit), as innocent, as were superheroes of the period.

A Vietnam-based DC superhero story would be about the disillusionment of previously innocent superheroes. Both Alan Moore (Watchmen) and Robinson (The Golden Age) have already told that story.

It's true that the OP asked a question that lends itself to broad revisioning. However, at it's core, All-Star Squadron was about celebrating The Golden Age Superheroes, and the era in which they thrived. The Major's right in thinking that moving it to other eras would make it something other than All-Star Squadron.

[DrNewGod]

...And believe it or not, many young, naive American men did enter the Vietnam War thinking they were going to do some good and would return to the U.S. hailed as heroes like their fathers were when they fought in WW2. Obviously, reality was much different, both in the quagmire that Vietnam became and in the national sentiment for it as the years wore on. Again, this could be explored using the Squadron characters chosen for this hypothetical book .

Yes you could. But it would be something very different than All-Star Squadron, and would probably merit a name of its own.

[hairys]

Yes you could. But it would be something very different than All-Star Squadron, and would probably merit a name of its own.

Perhaps you're right, but I think it's a bit nitpicky. I consider 5YL Legion to still be Legion even though it's much darker than previous versions of the Legion, for example. I think a non-upbeat Squadron that delves into the cynical aspects of war would still be Squadron, and I think tonally, upbeat war stories should be the exception anyway. War ain't great.

[CaptCleghorn]

The Major does have a point in that WWII was the period that coincided with the dawn of the comicbook superhero, and more, there's an attitude congruity that probably doesn't work in any other historical setting. The way WWII is nostalgically remembered by many (without warrant, I'll admit), as innocent, as were superheroes of the period.

A Vietnam-based DC superhero story would be about the disillusionment of previously innocent superheroes. Both Alan Moore (Watchmen) and Robinson (The Golden Age) have already told that story.

It's true that the OP asked a question that lends itself to broad revisioning. However, at it's core, All-Star Squadron was about celebrating The Golden Age Superheroes, and the era in which they thrived. The Major's right in thinking that moving it to other eras would make it something other than All-Star Squadron.

All-Star Squadron is NOT defined by you, the Major, or myself. It's the name of a comic book based on a group of superheroes collected by the US President during an era of great international turmoil. Now, WW2 has been called the last "good' war. The outlooks on WW2 and Vietnam are very different. But neither was an innocent time. The heroes in DC Comics at the time were, and arguably were more innocent in the Silver Age sixties than they were in the Golden Age forties. John Kennedy giving his blessing to a new All-Star Squadron screams optimism. Yes, what happens later is tragic. But not all stories have happy endings. Nothing about All-Star Squadron promised a happy ending either.

[DrNewGod]

All-Star Squadron is NOT defined by you, the Major, or myself. It's the name of a comic book based on a group of superheroes collected by the US President during an era of great international turmoil. Now, WW2 has been called the last "good' war. The outlooks on WW2 and Vietnam are very different. But neither was an innocent time. The heroes in DC Comics at the time were, and arguably were more innocent in the Silver Age sixties than they were in the Golden Age forties. John Kennedy giving his blessing to a new All-Star Squadron screams optimism. Yes, what happens later is tragic. But not all stories have happy endings. Nothing about All-Star Squadron promised a happy ending either.

The point you're missing is that All-Star Squadron was not just about the times in which it was set, and the way they are remembered, but the comics being written at that time, and their tone. What would be closer to All-Star Squadron's concept set in the late 1960s (IMO) would not feature the 40's heroes (who were appearing only intermittently), but The Doom Patrol, The Teen Titans, The Hawk And The Dove, Adam Strange, and The JLA.

It's not that I think you're wrong, but we disagree about what defines this title. That's okay. Even if you're wrong

[CaptCleghorn]

The point you're missing is that All-Star Squadron was not just about the times in which it was set, and the way they are remembered, but the comics being written at that time, and their tone. What would be closer to All-Star Squadron's concept set in the late 1960s (IMO) would not feature the 40's heroes (who were appearing only intermittently), but The Doom Patrol, The Teen Titans, The Hawk And The Dove, Adam Strange, and The JLA.

It's not that I think you're wrong, but we disagree about what defines this title. That's okay. Even if you're wrong

I agree a sixties All-Star Squadron would feature the JLoA, Titans, Doom Patrol, etc. I don't think I claimed otherwise. And where the original Squadron features the JSA, 7SV, Freedom Fighters, etc, there's really no difference. The stories done then could be used as well. There was very little cross continuity in the silver age and fitting those stories into an overall narrative is much like the original work.