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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Default Why is the Legion of Superheroes such a hard sell?

    Is it the goofy code names? I think it’s the fact that it seems so disconnected to the rest of the DCU. Then again you can make the same case for Batman Beyond as well, and that seems to do okay.
    Last edited by mathew101281; 01-22-2021 at 10:41 AM.

  2. #2
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    I think a big problem is the size. You have dozens of characters, minimum and often too little character focus.

    For me personally, the reboots haven't helped, especially the latest one. How are we supposed to care about a Legion when they can get swiped out by the next big writer?

  3. #3
    Ultimate Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I think a big problem is the size. You have dozens of characters, minimum and often too little character focus.

    For me personally, the reboots haven't helped, especially the latest one. How are we supposed to care about a Legion when they can get swiped out by the next big writer?
    Good points.
    One of the reasons I was wary of jumping onto Legion runs growing up was DC always felt the need to reboot after each cancellation.

    And, while I love the large cast, I’d love a small 6-8 character team. Most team franchises have casts as large as the Legion, but don’t try to feature all of them at once. Well, except the X-Men, and they have the advantage of their fans blindly buying anything they slap an X on.
    The Legion can’t support 10 books, each w. a specialized team that somehow all feature Timberwolf.
    Legion fans just want one well written book that lasts more than a year.

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    It's even a hard-sell here on CBR. I've created several Legion threads that cover their past history and hardly anyone ever posts on them.

    They do get lots of view though. Just not much interest as far as discussions.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    I’ve always felt the Legion is an awesome collection of supporting characters in search of a good main character. It’s no accident that the Legion was at its peak when Superboy and or Supergirl were members, and started to fall off pretty dramatically after that was taken away from them. I feel Superboy/girl adds a focus character that enables new readers to latch on to what can be a pretty intimidating concept. Dumping a large group of unfamiliar characters onto people can also be quite intimidating. I’m not saying the Legion needs Superman, but they do need a breakout star character that serves as a gateway drug of sorts to Legion Lore. One that can stay with the team long term and not be pulled out of it due to 21st century concerns.

    In short they need Wolverine. I’ve always felt that X-men like The Legion, would be way harder to get into if they didn’t have Wolverine who I feel is a gateway drug kind of character.
    Last edited by mathew101281; 01-22-2021 at 11:41 AM.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member LordMikel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    I’ve always felt the Legion is an awesome collection of supporting characters in search of a good main character. It’s no accident that the Legion was at its peak when Superboy and or Supergirl were members, and started to fall off pretty dramatically after that was taken away from them. I feel Superboy/girl adds a focus character that enables new readers to latch on to what can be a pretty intimidating concept. Dumping a large group of unfamiliar characters onto people can also be quite intimidating. I’m not saying the Legion needs Superman, but they do need a breakout star character that serves as a gateway drug of sorts to Legion Lore. One that can stay with the team long term and not be pulled out of it due to 21st century concerns.

    In short they need Wolverine. I’ve always felt that X-men like The Legion, would be way harder to get into if they didn’t have Wolverine who I feel is a gateway drug kind of character.
    Sadly they do though. Both Superboy and Supergirl have been on Legion teams.

    I think the fans are the biggest detriment.
    Legion should be funny.
    Legion should be serious.
    Legion needs to have (Insert character name here) else it will suck
    Legion shouldn't focus on (Insert character name here) as it will suck

    Granted I do also agree with the, "Ugh another reboot" comment.
    I think restorative nostalgia is the number one issue with comic book fans.
    A fine distinction between two types of Nostalgia:

    Reflective Nostalgia allows us to savor our memories but accepts that they are in the past
    Restorative Nostalgia pushes back against the here and now, keeping us stuck trying to relive our glory days.

  7. #7
    Ultimate Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    It's even a hard-sell here on CBR. I've created several Legion threads that cover their past history and hardly anyone ever posts on them.

    They do get lots of view though. Just not much interest as far as discussions.
    ^^^I actually did a search after my first post here, to see if there were threads discussing ideal line ups. While I said a smaller 6-8 character team would be good, I started thinking, who must every good Legion HAVE to include, and wound up in low double digits.
    I think a good Legion team might need to be large by necessity.

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    I’ve always felt the Legion is an awesome collection of supporting characters in search of a good main character. It’s no accident that the Legion was at its peak when Superboy and or Supergirl were members, and started to fall off pretty dramatically after that was taken away from them. I feel Superboy/girl adds a focus character that enables new readers to latch on to what can be a pretty intimidating concept. Dumping a large group of unfamiliar characters onto people can also be quite intimidating. I’m not saying the Legion needs Superman, but they do need a breakout star character that serves as a gateway drug of sorts to Legion Lore. One that can stay with the team long term and not be pulled out of it due to 21st century concerns.

    In short they need Wolverine. I’ve always felt that X-men like The Legion, would be way harder to get into if they didn’t have Wolverine who I feel is a gateway drug kind of character.
    ^^^I hadn’t ever considered that.

  8. #8
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    It's even a hard-sell here on CBR. I've created several Legion threads that cover their past history and hardly anyone ever posts on them.

    They do get lots of view though. Just not much interest as far as discussions.
    I bought Legion Volume One. That story about the Legion of Super Pets standing in for the Legion was awesome. Oh, wait. That didn't happen anymore. In fact, almost everything in that whole volume didn't happen anymore. And that's the earliest, most formative stories.

    When you're already dealing with that many characters, reboots just make people say the heck with it.

    I did read the first couple of issues of the new Legion and I liked them. But too many characters, all rebooted so that their history and continuity is irrelevant. At the most core level, Superboy (Superman when he was a boy) is integral to their history and origins and that character simply does not exist anymore.
    Power with Girl is better.

  9. #9
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    I think it's more about the reader's own perceptions.
    Batman's been around since 1940 and has been rebooted less times than the Legion, but people don't complain about not knowing where to start, or 'do I need to read every Batman comic since 1940?'

    X-Men has had just as many, if not more, characters than Legion. And new readers are always finding new entry-points into their books. Without rebooting, I might add.
    They even have their own version of Interlac now.

    I agree that the reboots are not helping the franchise. If you want a writer to take the team into new directions, fine. Just pick up where the last writer left off and go with it.
    Rebooting just adds stopping points and splinters the fan-base.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

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    Ultimate Member Robotman's Avatar
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    I was really sad that DC squandered Johns and Frank’s LoS work. They did a great job of revamping the classic team. Superman and the Legion of Superheroes is one of my favorite comics and was a great jumping on point for new readers. It gave the LoS a pretty relevant mission statement. Some of the best comics take relatable issues and present them in a larger than life sci fi setting (basically the Marvel Silver Age). Having the Legion as a team of alien immigrants (like Superman) trying to overcome their differences and unit to fight against bigotry and xenophobia was a good angle. Obviously it doesn’t have to be that every story. Not every X Men comic dealt with anti-mutant bigotry. Sometimes they just fought bad guys.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    I think it's more about the reader's own perceptions.
    Batman's been around since 1940 and has been rebooted less times than the Legion, but people don't complain about not knowing where to start, or 'do I need to read every Batman comic since 1940?'

    X-Men has had just as many, if not more, characters than Legion. And new readers are always finding new entry-points into their books. Without rebooting, I might add.
    They even have their own version of Interlac now.

    I agree that the reboots are not helping the franchise. If you want a writer to take the team into new directions, fine. Just pick up where the last writer left off and go with it.
    Rebooting just adds stopping points and splinters the fan-base.
    That's an unfair comparison. Batman's origin are crystal clear and very basic : a rich got got his parents killed in an alley and vowed to fight crime. That's it.

    The Legion is in the far future, with its most popular takes offering a very (out)dated vision of what said future would be, with horrible costumes (I really either dislike or am in a sort of guilty pleasure when I look at old Legion's costumes) and its has obnoxious fans, even more so than other old comic series.

    And they are tied to Superman, who, lets face it, isn't resonating too much with the modern world either.

  12. #12
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    That's an unfair comparison. Batman's origin are crystal clear and very basic : a rich got got his parents killed in an alley and vowed to fight crime. That's it.

    The Legion is in the far future, with its most popular takes offering a very (out)dated vision of what said future would be, with horrible costumes (I really either dislike or am in a sort of guilty pleasure when I look at old Legion's costumes) and its has obnoxious fans, even more so than other old comic series.

    And they are tied to Superman, who, lets face it, isn't resonating too much with the modern world either.
    Not to mention that Batman is one guy, two if we're counting Alfred. The Legion is a conglomerate of, what, thirty people? All with unique origins, personalities and motivations.

    It's not the same.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Not to mention that Batman is one guy, two if we're counting Alfred. The Legion is a conglomerate of, what, thirty people? All with unique origins, personalities and motivations.

    It's not the same.
    Yes, in today's world a tertiary franchise like the LoSH probably can't sustain such a large group. But a small group couldn't be a Legion of course.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I think a big problem is the size. You have dozens of characters, minimum and often too little character focus.

    For me personally, the reboots haven't helped, especially the latest one. How are we supposed to care about a Legion when they can get swiped out by the next big writer?
    Size is actually a draw for me. Reboots are a big part of the problem. I can't believe they let Bendis do yet another reboot. I'd be fine with updates to character names and outfit -- as well as introducing new members. That keeps the team/series fresh.

    The team, however, being set in the future makes it isolated -- so most readers really do need an entry character such as Superboy to get them interested. I'd wager many people got into Legion via Superboy. Those who didn't probably just love team books.

  15. #15
    Mighty Member Dr. Skeleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    I think it’s the fact that it seems so disconnected to the rest of the DCU.
    This. When I was a kid, I got some LOSH comics mainly because of Superboy, although I thought Lighting Lad, Brainac 5 and Phantom Girl were pretty cool. Maybe DC needs for them to go the way of the likes of Spider-Man 2009, Cable, and other future themed heroes to start making constant marks in the modern world and play a big role. I also enjoyed the LOSH cartoon as well.

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