Why is the Legion of Superheroes such a hard sell?

[Cyberstrike]

I think the idea of Star Trek but with superheroes as the crew might be an interesting take on the concept with a smaller cast of characters but still have rest of the Legion out there like the rest of the Starfleet.

[kcekada]

I think that's what Legion Lost could have been during new 52. I thought the art on that was good, but the story was kinda meh, and the 20th century setting didn't help.

[Jim Kelly]

I have several different ideas on how to relaunch the Legion of Super-Heroes (all involve keeping the old continuity in some fashion). One idea would be to launch a science fiction series set a thousands years or so in the future, but not to identify it as the Legion of Super-Heroes. It could start with a completely different set of character and flesh out the universe of the future. As more background was filled in, the Legion and other concepts (Science Police, United Planets, the Wanderers, the Heroes of Lallor, the Controllers, Sorcerors' World) would appear.

[Thor-Ul]

In which case, reimagining them for a new audience of fans is exactly pointless. You can create *anything* for a new fanbase. It might catch on. It might not.

But if the Legion is impenetrable to newer, younger audiences because we've been taught that superhero teams have to have exactly seven members ('cause our tiny human brains can supposedly only handle seven things at once, never minding that the Argonauts, back in the days of ancient Greece, had *fifty members* and those people didn't even have Netflix!), then perhaps it shouldn't have to be twisted into an unrecognizable caricature of it self for them to 'get it?'

And, again, this isn't just the Legion I'm talking about. If someone says that they want to write a Black Panther story, but find the whole Wakanda business too opaque and 'unrealistic' and wants to set it in an urban American environment and deal with social issues and street crime and stuff, then he doesn't want to write a Black Panther story at all, he wants to write a Luke Cage story, and is just missing the damn point.

If you want a 'Legion of Super-Heroes' that isn't set in the far future, doesn't have dozens of members, doesn't have corny codenames, etc. then it's right there, under the title 'Justice League.' Your search is over. Enjoy.

But not every restaurant needs to be Taco Bell. And not every comic book needs to be the Justice League. I'll be over here in my lane, *not* telling Justice League fans that 'the problem' with the Justice League is that there aren't nearly enough of them, they get dragged into too many crossovers and need their own space for their own stories and need to have sillier names and not take themselves so seriously.

An excellent way to explain it, Sutekh. Your example is the best. You want to see the Legion on present time? You are asking for L.E.G.I.O.N. ask for those guys.

[CaptCleghorn]

What makes the Legion, the Legion?

Lots of members. Yes, there are about two dozen active members at any one time. There are also supporting cast and assorted villains. I don't see the problem as the Justice League, Avengers, X-Men and other super groups all have dozens of members hanging around, although rarely at one time. An online Who's Who makes identification considerably easier. I'm not sure there's a problem.

They're in the future. Yep, they are. This allows for a far more advanced human civilization that is on par with so many other alien planets. For those who want regular crossovers, why complain about a large cast if the team has regular guest stars? Also, the future allows for drastic consequences such as planets being destroyed. Present day stories really need to take place on today's Earth and not mess anything up too much. The JL is always going to save the planet eventually.

There's a variety of alien races and they're all different. That's the idea. Where every other team book has a variety of personalities, the Legion uses species to give people different emotions (or not) and attitudes. It's nice to see a character who behaves a certain way in the book to go home and see that their planet remained so much like that while they've mellowed out and blended.

The Superman connection. While I think the Superman as a boy having the Legion as a way for him to develop and mature, I personally prefer for him to be used less, such as with the old Levitz/Giffen run when Superboy and/or Supergirl showing up meant $#!+ was going to hit the fan. Now Whether Superboy is Clark or Jon I'm not sure matters overall. I'd prefer Clark, but if Jon's a teenager, why wouldn't Clark send his kid to Legion camp?

Now these are all aspects of the Legion that I think are major parts of the concept. Every time the idea gets away from any of these, the less like the Legion it is. A team of seven to ten in the present day is an all too familiar concept. It may even be L.E.G.I.O.N. but it's not the Legion of Super-Heroes. There are many ways to handle the book, but without these facets, it ain't the Legion.

[Thor-Ul]

A far future teen team that has nothing to do with the Legion (set either in the 25th+ century, or 35th+, or just some AU with no Legion-analogue), and had members like Gold Lantern, Monster Boy and Dr. Fate (and, presumably some ladies...) but no fourth versions of Lightning Lad, Shrinking Violet, Brainiac 5, etc. could have been cool. (And perhaps given us more depth on these new characters, who, unfortunately, got lost in the crowd sometimes.)

I'm well beyond bored with 'new writers version of Lightning Lad, Brainy, etc.' Counting Superboy's Legion and 5YL, this is like, take 6? Yikes. Even for DC, that's a lot! And so the newer characters like Kid Quantum 2 and Dragonmage, or Dream Boy and Gazelle, or Dragonwing and Variable Lad, kind of catch my interest, since I've seen so many different Ultra Boys and Mon-El's and Wildfires and Dream Girls and Triplicate Girls that it's gotten hard to surprise me. (And, really, I'm not that impressed with new twists on these characters anyway. There's not *that* much wrong with them that they needed 'fixing.')

Ironically, sometimes the most iteresting thing in each reboot are the new characters who were not reworks of others and era the first ones into being discarded for the next version.

Grant Morrison wrote the X-Men at one time and Grant Morrison wrote about the Legion of Super-Familiars in the 853rd century. I would have liked to see them return.

I think Morrison gets it. Those stories were so far in the future that one can get away with anything. Which is essentially what they were doing in the 1960s with the Legion or with Hal as Pol Manning in the 58th century. If it's far enough in the future then whatever.

Could had been interesting. Morrison wrote a promising adult Legion in his Superman run which we only saw small pieces. And a great reorientation for the X-Men, another group with a hughe cast. But now with Grant distancing himself from DC I saw that possibility as very unlikely.

Well the obvious one is

1. Constant reboots that continually changed character appearances, and killed off timelines alienated the existing fanbase, which was rather large at one point and time. (There was a time when the Legion was one of DC's most popular titles)

2. Anything that takes place in the far future or distant past (Hex, Warlord) away from the Superman, Batman and the rest of the DCU heroes has always been a harder sell.

And Legion fans can be shy about picking up a new book, because it will either be:
A. Legion in name only to keep the trademark alive.
B. Erased in the next event or reboot.

Exactly. The most damaging thing has been the reboots. One or two I understand. But there are already five. Here there is no consistency between development of characters. Each reboot works on the same way, bring the initial characters a teenagers and start again with all the same stories. No new territory explored.

I mean Bendis's X-men wasn't that great, and the same goes for his Legion book.
I feel like when Geoff Johns and Gary Frank reintroduced Legion, DC should have find a X-writer instead of Paul Levitz.

Legion need a jump point for the book, maybe the same approach Morrison did with New X-Men would have been nice.

Bendis is the antithesis for books with large casts and science fiction. With the Guardians of the Galaxy, he put them on earth. Yes, Johns and Frank should had reintroduced the Legion title, not Levitz, that was the worse option. About Morrison, I already spoke.

They could have used Superman and Superboy's adventure with the Legion as a jump point for new readers.
But Superman books aren't doing that great either, so...

Bendis again. He had some interesting points, but overal, the balance was negative. He had moments, but I think than everything he did will eventually overlooked, retconed and forgotten. Not any addition to the Superman myths.

But back on the Legion, each reboot had the need to present all the characters at the same time and not development. The cast of the legion is hughe, yes. But they were developed for years and each Legionnarie had his background and building for years. Each reboot had the need to be different and change expectations to surprise audiences, but that is what causes inconsistencies in the characters. Cosmic boy is now a privileged prince instead of a struggling athlete from a economically depressed planet. It is the same character in some way?


And by the way, third month without any legion title or any news about a relaunch. I starting to think than the only excuse for this Legion title was an excuse to show how good a Superman could be Jon Kent and give him legitimacy as a new Superman.

[kcekada]

DC hasn't learned that reboots never work. It's a shame they had Ryan Sook invest so much time in creating new versions of the characters, when he should have just been updating the costumes of the classic members and inventing new characters. Well, he did create some new characters, but Dr. Fate in the future is a pass for me -- especially with White Witch around. Beast Boy or Animal Boy -- was kinda interesting, but he can't do anything that Cham can't do better. Golden Lantern was okay, but since when did the Legion allow members that had artificial powers?

[Sutekh]

DC hasn't learned that reboots never work. It's a shame they had Ryan Sook invest so much time in creating new versions of the characters, when he should have just been updating the costumes of the classic members and inventing new characters. Well, he did create some new characters, but Dr. Fate in the future is a pass for me -- especially with White Witch around. Beast Boy or Animal Boy -- was kinda interesting, but he can't do anything that Cham can't do better. Golden Lantern was okay, but since when did the Legion allow members that had artificial powers?

All of them would have been more interesting and gotten to shine more on their own team. Monster Boy on a team without Cham, gets to shine. Dr. Fate on a team without the White Witch, ditto.

As for Gold Lantern, who knows whether or not this version of the Legion even has that rule... (Or any other of the rules we are familiar with, which, frankly, even the classic Legion kind of skirted around, allowing Karate Kid, who had no actual super-power, and both Lightning Lad and Lightning Lass, in later years, or Chameleon Boy and Chameleon Girl, to serve at the same time despite not having 'unique' powers.) Heck, as of Legion of Three Worlds, which suggested that Rond Vidar was a Legionnaire, even the 'classic' Legion seemed to be okay with a Lantern member (although he technically did have a 'unique super-power,' of immunity to his father, Universo's, mind control, much like Mon-El had the 'unique super-power' over Superboy of not folding up and dying in the presence of Kryptonite, a 'super-power' which I share!).

[Thor-Ul]

DC hasn't learned that reboots never work. It's a shame they had Ryan Sook invest so much time in creating new versions of the characters, when he should have just been updating the costumes of the classic members and inventing new characters.

Ryan Sook, is a good artist, and indeed, his talent would had been prefered in another project.

Well, he did create some new characters, but Dr. Fate in the future is a pass for me -- especially with White Witch around. Beast Boy or Animal Boy -- was kinda interesting, but he can't do anything that Cham can't do better.

All those characters, for worse, depends a lot on what is happening with other titles and characters. A weakness on Bendis' Legion is than there are too much ties to the present time. Those conections were a surprise then and now in the past Legions, but in this version, is common coin. Its suprises me than he doesn't revealed than the "Lightning twins" were descendants of Black Lightning.

Golden Lantern was okay, but since when did the Legion allow members that had artificial powers?

If Bendis practically erased everything than made the Legion the Legion, do you think he would had keep something like that standing? Honestly, I think he would had erased interlac if Hickman on X-men would not had started with its own version with the krakoan language.