Why is the Legion of Superheroes such a hard sell?

[EmeraldGladiator]

I love the big team but like kcekada said it is usually smalker groups except for rare occasions. I loved the satellite era of the JLA but rare were the arcs that involved the whole team unless you are talking cameos. That is why LSH and JLA issues had roll calls on front page so you knew who was in the book. Switching up the rolls allows for multiple character interactions.

[Sutekh]

I love the big team but like kcekada said it is usually smalker groups except for rare occasions. I loved the satellite era of the JLA but rare were the arcs that involved the whole team unless you are talking cameos. That is why LSH and JLA issues had roll calls on front page so you knew who was in the book. Switching up the rolls allows for multiple character interactions.

This is true, and generally the whole team should only be showing up for enormous once-every-five-years sort of 'Great Darkness' type situations, with many, many individual storylines leading up to these 'all hands on deck' type situations. Where Bendis fell down, I think, is trying to introduce all twenty or thirty of them at once. You don't come out of the wilderness and sit down for the seven course meal. Start with an appetizer! Build up to the 'big event!'

(I feel the same way with Justice League relaunches that start with Darkseid right out of the gate. Or a Titans relaunch that *starts* with Trigon resurfacing. I mean, good lord, save something for later, start with some foreplay and don't shoot your wad on the first six issues! Where do you go from there? A never ending series of world-ending threats, each more ridiculously over the top (and, since they'll be forgotten and topped next year anyway, irrelevant) than the last?)

Also, as a writer, spend some time getting the reader invested in the characters and the world around them before blowing stuff up and threatening them all. If it's week one of meeting Mon-El's Krypto-family, and I literally don't even remember their names, then why on Krypton would I give a rat's butt that some idiot with an axe wants to murder them all?

It's like, 'Oh noes, a bunch of nameless characters I've never seen before on some world I've never heard of before are gonna die. I care so much... Not. I mean, really, if the writer doesn't care to name the characters, or write six words about their world or culture, than why the hell should *I* care about them?'

[Korath]

I remain of the opinion that people who are *not* fans of the Legion are not the best demographic to consult on how to make the Legion successful.

'Cause they might indeed make *something* successful, but it *won't* be the Legion...

If there were more than five fans of the classic Legion left, you would have a point.

As it is, the classic Legion has zero appeal for a newer, younger audience.

[Robanker]

I remain of the opinion that people who are *not* fans of the Legion are not the best demographic to consult on how to make the Legion successful.

'Cause they might indeed make *something* successful, but it *won't* be the Legion...

Considering the market of Legion fans seems to be shrinking, some new blood is needed and thus pretty good to at least consult.

I get the 'too many characters' complaints. Honestly, if you want the Legion to be popular again you would have to start off with a smaller team first with the possibility of introducing more characters down the line.

The question is who would you put on the team? The core trio (Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl and Lightning Lad) seems obvious but there would be Legion members who could use the spotlight?

I'd argue you bring in Brainiac 5, Dawnstar and Bouncing Boy in the second wave. I'm leaving most my favorites off but they're some of the most iconic members.

Trickle in Shadow Lass, Mon-El, Triplicate Girl, Sun Boy, etc afterward.

No matter how you slice it, though, there are too many characters. Someone will get shortchanged unless it becomes so successful others can start headlining spin off books

[Sutekh]

As it is, the classic Legion has zero appeal for a newer, younger audience.

In which case, reimagining them for a new audience of fans is exactly pointless. You can create *anything* for a new fanbase. It might catch on. It might not.

But if the Legion is impenetrable to newer, younger audiences because we've been taught that superhero teams have to have exactly seven members ('cause our tiny human brains can supposedly only handle seven things at once, never minding that the Argonauts, back in the days of ancient Greece, had *fifty members* and those people didn't even have Netflix!), then perhaps it shouldn't have to be twisted into an unrecognizable caricature of it self for them to 'get it?'

And, again, this isn't just the Legion I'm talking about. If someone says that they want to write a Black Panther story, but find the whole Wakanda business too opaque and 'unrealistic' and wants to set it in an urban American environment and deal with social issues and street crime and stuff, then he doesn't want to write a Black Panther story at all, he wants to write a Luke Cage story, and is just missing the damn point.

If you want a 'Legion of Super-Heroes' that isn't set in the far future, doesn't have dozens of members, doesn't have corny codenames, etc. then it's right there, under the title 'Justice League.' Your search is over. Enjoy.

But not every restaurant needs to be Taco Bell. And not every comic book needs to be the Justice League. I'll be over here in my lane, *not* telling Justice League fans that 'the problem' with the Justice League is that there aren't nearly enough of them, they get dragged into too many crossovers and need their own space for their own stories and need to have sillier names and not take themselves so seriously.

[EmeraldGladiator]

There you are very eloquently put my feelings exactly, Sutekh

[Korath]

In which case, reimagining them for a new audience of fans is exactly pointless. You can create *anything* for a new fanbase. It might catch on. It might not.

But if the Legion is impenetrable to newer, younger audiences because we've been taught that superhero teams have to have exactly seven members ('cause our tiny human brains can supposedly only handle seven things at once, never minding that the Argonauts, back in the days of ancient Greece, had *fifty members* and those people didn't even have Netflix!), then perhaps it shouldn't have to be twisted into an unrecognizable caricature of it self for them to 'get it?'

And, again, this isn't just the Legion I'm talking about. If someone says that they want to write a Black Panther story, but find the whole Wakanda business too opaque and 'unrealistic' and wants to set it in an urban American environment and deal with social issues and street crime and stuff, then he doesn't want to write a Black Panther story at all, he wants to write a Luke Cage story, and is just missing the damn point.

If you want a 'Legion of Super-Heroes' that isn't set in the far future, doesn't have dozens of members, doesn't have corny codenames, etc. then it's right there, under the title 'Justice League.' Your search is over. Enjoy.

But not every restaurant needs to be Taco Bell. And not every comic book needs to be the Justice League. I'll be over here in my lane, *not* telling Justice League fans that 'the problem' with the Justice League is that there aren't nearly enough of them, they get dragged into too many crossovers and need their own space for their own stories and need to have sillier names and not take themselves so seriously.

There is a difference between not wanting mouldy food but fresh one and wanting to eat a pizza instead of a Taco Bell, you know ?

The legion doesn't need its antiquated costumes, it's outdated vision of the future and its enormous cast from the get go. What it needs is to struck a chord with the current readership and beyond (but of course the comic industry is in decline so it's harder nowadays).

[Comic-Reader Lad]

I just thought of how I got invested in the Legion back in the 1970s.

My first issue was Superboy 203, which featured the debut of Mike Grell on pencils and the death of Invisible Kid. I had no idea who the hell he was, but I was affected by the story.

I knew who Superboy was, so the idea of his having a bunch of friends in the future and having adventures with them was mindshattering to me. I really just liked that idea.

Also, I found the Legion easy to get into because, back then, DC comics in general were done-in-one stories, so each issue I got a complete story with different Legionnaires.

They were introduced and showed off their powers in each issue, so it was easy to get to know and understand them.

The future setting and the various home planets of the team really were just window dressing and didn't intrude on the plots.

I think, even though the dozens of members and backstories of the Legionnaires isn't really all that hard to grasp, it's the concept of "perception is reality" at play here.

If people talk themselves into believing that the series is too hard to get into, then they won't try. At 8 years old, I was able to get into the team without all this "confusion" people talk themselves into these days.

In the next relaunch, I would suggest going back to the idea of done-in-one stories that feature no more than 6 Legionnaires in each issue. The story would center around 1 Legionnaire (say Lightning Lad vs. Lightning Lord) with the rest along as supporting characters.

Do that for the first year in order to introduce your cast and lay the foundation slowly. That'll give time for readers to meet everyone and decide who their favorites are.

Then, in year 2, start with 2 and 3 part stories that build out the Legion milieu with visits to alien worlds & dimensions, United Planets, Khunds, Dark Circle, etc.

And, yes, having Superboy (Superman as a boy, I don't care about any other Superboy) in every issue as a gateway character was a big help. I liked that character, so I was along for the ride. The buy-in on my part was easy because I got to see things through his eyes.

I don't think kids today would have any problem with this. The idea that there was a different sampling of the team in each issue, yet I knew there were more out there was intriguing to me, and drew me into the series even more because I wanted to meet them.

I also don't think the codenames would be a turnoff. If kids can accept "Ant-Man," I don't think they'd balk at "Cosmic Boy."

[kcekada]

Legion of Super Heroes should be exactly what the name implies. A large group of super heroes. Maybe teams just don't have the fanbase they did in the 70s and 80s -- so nothing will work. But in its heyday, Legion was a well produced super hero book. The setting didn't matter much -- and by the 80s -- they didn't even need Superboy to prop sells.

You can create a book that uses classic characters that will appeal to younger/newer fans. You just need to make it fresh. That can include changes to classic characters and the introduction of new members, villains, etc. I wouldn't expect (or want) the Legion to be wearing outfits from the 70s, 80s or even 90s -- even though Lightning Lad's is one of the few that still stands up today. But I do expect to be able to recognize old favorites (something most of us couldn't do with current versions of Phantom Girl, Shrinking Violet, Element Lad, etc.).

[EmeraldGladiator]

That Bronze Age Lightning Lad costume is one of my all time favorites and for me it stands uo to this day. All tweaks to it have never made it any better. It is just that good, probably why Garth is my favorite Legionnaire

[Stick Figure]

I thought Bendis nailed it. Again maybe being a new reader made me more receptive to the book. I know I have no interest in reading Legion stories rooted in 80’s or 90’s continuity. Books should be written for “now”.

[kcekada]

I thought Bendis nailed it. Again maybe being a new reader made me more receptive to the book. I know I have no interest in reading Legion stories rooted in 80’s or 90’s continuity. Books should be written for “now”.

Being rooted in a previous version does not means the books can't be written for 'now'. All of the JLA characters, with very few exceptions, are still basically the same characters they've always been. Perhaps Marvel's characters are a better example since they wisely don't keep rebooting in a misguided attempt to appeal to new readers.

[Zero Hunter]

I thought Bendis nailed it. Again maybe being a new reader made me more receptive to the book. I know I have no interest in reading Legion stories rooted in 80’s or 90’s continuity. Books should be written for “now”.

Here is the big question though. Are you a fan of the characters or are you a Bendis fan? If he left the book would you stick around or would you just follow Bendis to his next book?

[Stick Figure]

Here is the big question though. Are you a fan of the characters or are you a Bendis fan? If he left the book would you stick around or would you just follow Bendis to his next book?

I liked the freshness of the book so I might stick around to see what another writer does. I do mostly just follow Bendis though. Occasionally I’ll stick with a book though.

[EmeraldGladiator]

Stick I appreciate you point of view even though it is diametrically opposed to my own. Quick question though, would your liking of the title be any different if Bendis did a team in the future with Jon Kent that had nothing to do with the Legion? I only ask because if Bendis just wanted to do a teen team book set in the future and called it Young Justice 3071 and I would have had much less of a problem with it.