Why is the Legion of Superheroes such a hard sell?

[Thor-Ul]

I'd like to see the current Legion series end with a visit from the founders of the Levitz/Retroboot Legion -- for whatever reason. Maybe the timelines got crossed -- and the Bendis Legion accidentally visited the wrong past, and now the timeline needs restored.

It would be a nice and simple way, but I doubt it would work for DC. It too much easy. For me would be perfect. I mean, this Legion has not the success DC wanted, I think. Either they are not pushing the property or they are waiting to much for a relaunch.
At this point, I would prefer a Keith Giffen 5YL Black Label GN. At least it would be more original.

[EmeraldGladiator]

It would be a nice and simple way, but I doubt it would work for DC. It too much easy. For me would be perfect. I mean, this Legion has not the success DC wanted, I think. Either they are not pushing the property or they are waiting to much for a relaunch.
At this point, I would prefer a Keith Giffen 5YL Black Label GN. At least it would be more original.

I think 5YL was a well written Tales of the Dark Multiverse version of the Legion. I would love to buy that. Having the Retroboot version hinted at in Doomsday Clock return backed by Geoff Johns and an amazing artist would be the best possible option.

[Thor-Ul]

I don't think Johns would had been very happy with the inclusion of this reboot. I wonder if he is already working in a way to undo it.
As a reflection. Mark Waid commented than when he was working on the threeboot series and all the Lightning saga happened, he felt like all his work had no back up from the editorial and in part that was the cause he left the series.
I think now is happening something similar. I think this last reboot was pushed more by DiDio (who loves the reboots) than Bendis and with DiDio out of DC, this experiment don't have enough editorial support.
Of course I could be wrong and Bendis will use a lot his Legion with the Justice League against Leviathan.

[EmeraldGladiator]

I don't think Johns would had been very happy with the inclusion of this reboot. I wonder if he is already working in a way to undo it.

I get the feeling that Bendis undid what Johns was trying to do in Doomsday Clock a mistake that DC is paying for with the added scar tissue of yet another failed Legion reboot instead of going with Johns' proven version of the team. Maybe Doc Manhattan can come and fix this.

[Zero Hunter]

I get the feeling that Bendis undid what Johns was trying to do in Doomsday Clock a mistake that DC is paying for with the added scar tissue of yet another failed Legion reboot instead of going with Johns' proven version of the team. Maybe Doc Manhattan can come and fix this.

Oh make not mistake Bendis undid a lot of what Johns was setting up in Doomsday Clock. Along with Snyder and Didio. Johns had a road map laid out and they came in and just said "naw we aren't doing any of that"

[EmeraldGladiator]

Oh make not mistake Bendis undid a lot of what Johns was setting up in Doomsday Clock. Along with Snyder and Didio. Johns had a road map laid out and they came in and just said "naw we aren't doing any of that"

Hindsight that decision not looking so great. I was always dubious of DC running Doomsday Clock and Metal at the same time. DC had never done simultaneous mega crossovers simultaneously is rare. It appears DC chose poorly on who to back. Sort of like when all the DC marketing was behind Amazons Attack while a little thing called the Sinestro Corps War changed comicdom for a fair bit of time. Johns has proven able to steer the entire DCU in a creatively and commercially favorable direction, Bendis and Snyder (as much as I love American Vampire) haven't demonstrated the ability to do so at least not yet.

[Thor-Ul]

Considering also than Johns at the moment was more focused in is media presence, that must had weakened his position.
And considering than Snyder was not friend of DiDio, as the rumours said, seems like there was a three side conflict there.

[EmeraldGladiator]

Considering also than Johns at the moment was more focused in is media presence, that must had weakened his position.
And considering than Snyder was not friend of DiDio, as the rumours said, seems like there was a three side conflict there.

Maybe Didio and Johns have a Brady Belichick type dynamic. Johns' Sinestro Corps War run and DC immediately after that was probably a highpoint for Didio. He when offered an option of either helping Johns retake the Iron Throne or siding with Snyder instead probably decided Snyder because if it works Didio himself would get more credit but if Johns were to do it again, Johns would get most of the credit. Mixed metaphors but you hopefully get what I am trying to say.

[Thor-Ul]

I get the feeling that Bendis undid what Johns was trying to do in Doomsday Clock a mistake that DC is paying for with the added scar tissue of yet another failed Legion reboot instead of going with Johns' proven version of the team. Maybe Doc Manhattan can come and fix this.

You can see that from a mille away. Eleven chapters talking about tradition and reclaim history and legacy and then... a rebooted Legion appears. It betrayed the whole concept from DdC. Imagine if the N52earth2 JSA would appear in DdC instead of the Golden Age team.

[kcekada]

I get the feeling that Bendis undid what Johns was trying to do in Doomsday Clock a mistake that DC is paying for with the added scar tissue of yet another failed Legion reboot instead of going with Johns' proven version of the team. Maybe Doc Manhattan can come and fix this.

Halfway through Doomsday Clock, Imra vanishes because her timeline no longer existed. I'm pretty sure that is NOT what Johns had planned. He had to do that to accommodate the Bendis reboot.

[kcekada]

Oh make not mistake Bendis undid a lot of what Johns was setting up in Doomsday Clock. Along with Snyder and Didio. Johns had a road map laid out and they came in and just said "naw we aren't doing any of that"

I don't get the appeal of Snyder. I thought his first Metal series was much ado about nothing. Couldn't be bothered with his latest Metal series. I thought his work on Swamp Thing in new 52 was good, but have had no interest in his Batman or JLA work.

[EmeraldGladiator]

DC trying to find the next big thing, find a guy that does something extraordinary on a small book and keep promoting him. Worked like gangbusters for Geoff but won't work for everyone. I love American Vampire (Snyder) as much as anything but I don't think Snyder has "mettle" to be the voice/emotional leader of the entire DCU. He can at least run his individual titles. His Batman run was successful. Bendis seems unable to even do that much less be an architect of DC's new direction. The only of Bendis books that might be considered not a commercial disaster would be his Superman and that might have more to do with Ivan Reis art as it does with Bendis' storytelling. I know that is why I bought them.

[Korath]

Hindsight that decision not looking so great. I was always dubious of DC running Doomsday Clock and Metal at the same time. DC had never done simultaneous mega crossovers simultaneously is rare. It appears DC chose poorly on who to back. Sort of like when all the DC marketing was behind Amazons Attack while a little thing called the Sinestro Corps War changed comicdom for a fair bit of time. Johns has proven able to steer the entire DCU in a creatively and commercially favorable direction, Bendis and Snyder (as much as I love American Vampire) haven't demonstrated the ability to do so at least not yet.

I actually think DC made the right choice. If DDC was supposed be the standard bearer of what Johns wanted for the DCU, it's a good thing it was thwarted. It was a really poor story, in fact being barely deserving of such a name at all. It's was beautifully crafted but utterly vapid and empty and never knew what it wanted to be from the get go. It wasn't really proposing something great, and his following book Three Jokers, wasn't good at all either...

[EmeraldGladiator]

I actually think DC made the right choice. If DDC was supposed be the standard bearer of what Johns wanted for the DCU, it's a good thing it was thwarted. It was a really poor story, in fact being barely deserving of such a name at all. It's was beautifully crafted but utterly vapid and empty and never knew what it wanted to be from the get go. It wasn't really proposing something great, and his following book Three Jokers, wasn't good at all either...

You can't really judge a project as empty or vapid if the whole point of the story was changed halfway through. Sure it seems like a waste of time now but that is because we were told to invest in Imra only for her to disappear, care about Johnny Thunder only for nothing to come of that and to be happy about Wally's return only to have him turned into a killer. None of these were the original endings of the story and the editorial rewrites are probably the reason it took so long Gary Frank probably had to draw the whole thing twice. If halfway through Morrison's JLA 7th issue he was told to scrap everything and move characters in place for a My Little Ponies crossover would that be on him? If I was in charge of DC comics I would put Johns and Reis in charge of a Hal Jordan GL book (with Abnett and Lanning on GLC book drawn by Darryl Banks), put Johns and Fabok on the Retroboot Legion and Johns and Frank on JSA. Those are my three favorite DC properties, that's how much I trust him.

[Korath]

You can't really judge a project as empty or vapid if the whole point of the story was changed halfway through. Sure it seems like a waste of time now but that is because we were told to invest in Imra only for her to disappear, care about Johnny Thunder only for nothing to come of that and to be happy about Wally's return only to have him turned into a killer. None of these were the original endings of the story and the editorial rewrites are probably the readin it took so long Gary Frank probably had to draw the whole thing twice.

The book itself never knew what it wanted to do, even from the start. I criticized every issue of it back in the main thread about the series. It had good art, and it looked at first glance like a good story, but it wasn't. It lacked a clear vision, a backbone if you will, from the very start. The premise itself wasn't great and it misread the whole point of Watchmen, either in its structure or thematic. And I don't think the first issues were impacted by the changes of editorial directions, otherwise Imra and co wouldn't have been there at all I think.