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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    At its best, the Legion was really just a straightforward superhero series that just happened to take place in the future. Writers shouldn't really add too much on top of that. That's when the series starts to feel remote and unrelatable.
    I agree. I don't know why DC is always trying to rethink and restart it. Each time they do (no matter how popular the creative team may be), the series eventually loses steam. I know they went back to the classic team in new 52, but that series just wasn't very well-written. Some of the new characters introduced like Dragonwing (I think) and Chemical Kid -- weren't very interesting.

  2. #47
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    My experience with the Legion consist of Geoff Johns 'Superman and the Legion of Superheroes', their guest appearances in Smallville and JLU, Legion of Three Worlds and a handful comics that usually involved them being jerks to either the Subs or other characters. I have a stack of LEGION comics left untouched.

    I can't say I came out reading those characters as a fan of any of the characters. I like Tom Kallor Starman but that's because of his appearances in JSA and later the animated movie and less to do with him as a Legion member. I don't think the Legion has a strong hook besides 'future team inspired by Superman'. If I were asked to do a Legion story, I wouldn't bother with the Legion, I would focus on the Subs because at least they have the 'heroes who were rejected because their powers suck' thing going for them. Or do a story with a smaller team.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    I agree. I don't know why DC is always trying to rethink and restart it. Each time they do (no matter how popular the creative team may be), the series eventually loses steam. I know they went back to the classic team in new 52, but that series just wasn't very well-written. Some of the new characters introduced like Dragonwing (I think) and Chemical Kid -- weren't very interesting.
    That was because DC went full nostalgia driven and instead try to go with a clear direction and new ideas, they went to the past and put Levitz to write like it was twenty years ago, for a audience different and totally out of form. Levitz is a good writer and his original run in the legion one of the bests, but experience shows than lightning can't be bottled twice. Levitz was not the writer for that moment and instead of making people go to the title, he drove them away.
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  4. #49
    Fantastic Member Menacer's Avatar
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    The first time I recall being exposed to The Legion of Super-Heroes was 1998 in Superman Transformed -- generally hated Blue Superman storyline-- easily one of my favorite runs... I own all 70ish issues from the main run.

    Anyway in Transformed ...Superman breaks into Lexcorp and simultaneously Brainac 5 and the Legion do the same... long story short an incredible attempt to repower superman by channeling the sun into him follows, fails... later Metron booms them into the sun...

    This single book introduced me to New Gods and the Legion when I was 13 years old...

    I've read plenty new gods since then, and the Legion has popped up loads in my readings.


    Today at the used book store I scored Legionaries Book one

    Any fans of this book?
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    Last edited by Menacer; 01-23-2021 at 08:24 PM.

  5. #50
    Fantastic Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Double post
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    Last edited by Menacer; 01-23-2021 at 08:25 PM.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Part of it is there hasn’t been a big successful outside media project using them to make people aware of their existence. Look at the Titans: their book has mostly been a train wreck for the past decade or so, but they still have fans amongst the younger generations because of the cartoon, because of Robin/Dick Grayson, because the team was small enough for people to pick favorites.

    Legion is huge, it’s disconnected from the present DCU, we’ve gone long periods of time with no Legion book, they had a cartoon but it was only two seasons and didn’t get as much love as it deserved, they tried to erase the connection to Superman which didn’t help, they’ve rebooted so many times that it’s hard for anyone to connect, etc. They should’ve just stuck with the Retroboot or used the classic set up as a reboot. The founding trio go back in time to meet Superman as a kid, they all team up and found the Legion, Superman has adventures with them but doesn’t remember because he gets mind wiped every time he goes back to the “present”. That’s a pretty simple easy explanation which gives them a connection to what’s going on in the present.

    Also put out a cartoon, TV series, animated movie, SOMETHING in outside media with them in it. Something to let the general public know they exist.
    One more reason I dislike the classic setting of Legion. What's the point of picking young Clark kent (beyond to say see, he wasn't green when he became Superman!) and have him have cosmic adventures only to mind wipe him again. That's just super dumb... And if the Legion needs a character from the present so much to last, perhaps it shouldn't be set in the future. What's the point beyond a dumb gimmick. Instead of the Legion, DC should invest in the current cosmic corner of their Universe, which is severely lacking.
    Last edited by Korath; 01-24-2021 at 12:11 AM.

  7. #52
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    One more reason I dislike the classic setting of Legion. What's the point of picking young Clark kent (beyond to say see, he wasn't green when he became Superman!) and have him have cosmic adventures only to mind wipe him again. That's just super dumb... And if the Legion needs a character from the present so much to last, perhaps it shouldn't be set in the future. What's the point beyond a dumb gimmick. Instead of the Legion, DC should invest in the current cosmic corner of their Universe, which is severely lacking.
    Wiping away someone's conscious memories can only go so far.Clark's emotional maturity changes.His outlook on things changes.His experiences remain,it's sort of like clark's memories of krypton in some continuities.For clark it would be like going to bed thinking "i hate this place.I am never gonna be accepted here,as me".Only on the next day, he would be like"mmph!i am ok.I guess,i would just have to try a bit harder".Clark is pretty optimistic.That's his m.o.And regardless of legion,DC's cosmic corner sucks for me(except for the kirby stuff).There is no clear structure to it and there is not enough world building .It's boring.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 01-24-2021 at 01:02 AM.
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  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    One more reason I dislike the classic setting of Legion. What's the point of picking young Clark kent (beyond to say see, he wasn't green when he became Superman!) and have him have cosmic adventures only to mind wipe him again. That's just super dumb... And if the Legion needs a character from the present so much to last, perhaps it shouldn't be set in the future. What's the point beyond a dumb gimmick. Instead of the Legion, DC should invest in the current cosmic corner of their Universe, which is severely lacking.
    And that's an issue with early Silver Age DC. There were gimmicks meant to get kids to buy comics and the cover of Superboy not being allowed in their club (can you imagine?) would have made a kid wonder what was going on. Early Legion had a few things that were anathema to modern super-hero stories. Some old time fans relish them, others try to find some way to work them in and still look "sophisticated". Personally, I kind of ignore the weirder stuff that was meant to attract a kid and focus on the modern take. Alan Moore had a brilliant line in "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" when Brainiac 5 asks Kal if he would tell them what happens in their futures as the Legion there are still early in their careers. ANY time travel story has possible implications. WE need to just assume he's Superman, he'll do the right thing.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Wiping away someone's conscious memories can only go so far.Clark's emotional maturity changes.His outlook on things changes.His experiences remain,it's sort of like clark's memories of krypton in some continuities.For clark it would be like going to bed thinking "i hate this place.I am never gonna be accepted here,as me".Only on the next day, he would be like"mmph!i am ok.I guess,i would just have to try a bit harder".Clark is pretty optimistic.That's his m.o.And regardless of legion,DC's cosmic corner sucks for me(except for the kirby stuff).There is no clear structure to it and there is not enough world building .It's boring.
    One thing I found interesting from the Legion appearance on the Smallville show, was that while the old classic Legion comics (and even Johns Legion of Three Worlds) leaned on the idea of Superboy 'learning something' from his experiences with the Legion, Smallville took it in a different direction and had the Legion be surprised by some of Clark's idealistic choices, and ended up learning something from him. It was, being Smallville, ham-fisted and groan-worthy, but I did like the *idea* that it was a two way street, and not just young farmboy Clark learning stuff from his cosmopolitan future friends.

    And then Johns did his Legion of Three Worlds riff where Superboy learned about truth, justice and the American way from the three founders (with Cosmic Boy representing 'the American way?'), and I was like, oh dear.

  10. #55
    Spectacular Member Stick Figure's Avatar
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    I came to the Bendis stuff pretty fresh. A friend showed me some issues from the 70’s & 80’s but they weren’t for me. I love the recent book! It’s all new so I have no baggage. The problem I see is there are multiple versions each with their own fan base. I see comments about how old costumes were better. Old relationships were better. This character should be doing this. A Legion book is never going to succeed in that climate. I guess they need to do a Legion book that borrows nothing from previous continuity. Maybe then it can breathe without having so many preconceived ideas thrown on.

    Bendis & Sook did brilliant work to me. Loved it!

  11. #56
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    If they had just stuck with the 1980s idea that the Legion adventures happen in real time--and therefore the earlier members are adults (they just don't show it because it's a thousand years in the future and science keeps them young and/or most of them are aliens with different metabolisms)--then they could have just kept going forward with new members, new worlds, new concepts. It wasn't a comic that needed to be rebooted all the time. Going back to the beginning again seems to be a daft notion that the really good stories were the early ones, so we just have to keep going back there because that's what fans want. Whereas, the truth is the Legion kept getting better and better as it progressed, with new members, relationships, deaths, births. You could jump on at any point, like with any soap opera, because there were new story lines written for the current audience.

    I liked Superboy in the 1960s (maybe even more than his adult version, Superman) and that was a really popular comic at the time--so a good way to get readers into the Legion. Now maybe it's not important--but given the Legion kept going forward in time, there would always be room for another new star (like Flash or Impulse) to serve as that entry point. However, I don't really like the Legion to be connected with present time continuity, as it's the present continuity that always fouls up the Legion future. If there's no connection, then the Legion is free to keep going, without retcons and reboots. If it doesn't make sense with the present mainstream continuity, you can just blame the fact that it's a thousand years in the future and mysterious things have happened in the meantime.
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  12. #57
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Going back to the beginning again seems to be a daft notion that the really good stories were the early ones, so we just have to keep going back there because that's what fans want.
    People often defend this by saying that in order to rebuild the franchise we need to get back to the basics, to the formula that worked. But in practice it often ends up with franchise being forever stuck in one place.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick Figure View Post
    I came to the Bendis stuff pretty fresh. A friend showed me some issues from the 70ís & 80ís but they werenít for me. I love the recent book! Itís all new so I have no baggage. The problem I see is there are multiple versions each with their own fan base. I see comments about how old costumes were better. Old relationships were better. This character should be doing this. A Legion book is never going to succeed in that climate. I guess they need to do a Legion book that borrows nothing from previous continuity. Maybe then it can breathe without having so many preconceived ideas thrown on.

    Bendis & Sook did brilliant work to me. Loved it!
    I came in fresh too and I was happy.

  14. #59
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Of all DC's many properties, Legion seemed like the clear choice for which one CW should invest in. The interpersonal drama, the extensive cast of diverse characters? The multiple histories to select from allowing more leeway in characterization... It was all there. I'm still amazed they only touch on it a little for Supergirl instead of just doing a Legion show. They must be terrified of production costs setting it in the future.
    I definitely don't see the CW having the budget for the Legion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    One more reason I dislike the classic setting of Legion. What's the point of picking young Clark kent (beyond to say see, he wasn't green when he became Superman!) and have him have cosmic adventures only to mind wipe him again. That's just super dumb... And if the Legion needs a character from the present so much to last, perhaps it shouldn't be set in the future. What's the point beyond a dumb gimmick. Instead of the Legion, DC should invest in the current cosmic corner of their Universe, which is severely lacking.
    There've been interpretations where they make sure Clark only doesn't remember stuff he absolutely can't know at that point in his life to keep the timeline intact.

    I mean, it's only one or two heroes from the present (Superboy and Supergirl) so I don't think that's such a knock against them. And there have been long Legion runs without them. The Legion would basically overwhelm everything else if they were in the present-day DCU.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stick Figure View Post
    I came to the Bendis stuff pretty fresh. A friend showed me some issues from the 70’s & 80’s but they weren’t for me. I love the recent book! It’s all new so I have no baggage. The problem I see is there are multiple versions each with their own fan base. I see comments about how old costumes were better. Old relationships were better. This character should be doing this. A Legion book is never going to succeed in that climate. I guess they need to do a Legion book that borrows nothing from previous continuity. Maybe then it can breathe without having so many preconceived ideas thrown on.

    Bendis & Sook did brilliant work to me. Loved it!
    I don't really see how you can do a full reboot though. There've been too many reboots as it is.

  15. #60
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    It's too much man, you can't flood the uninitated with about 30 plus characters, it's why my eyes always glaze-over whenever the Legion showed up as it just becomes an assualt of strange names and colours. I can tell their's a deep passion for the team but their appeal just get's lost in sea of characters.

    DC needs to decide on main group of 5/6 Legionanaires and start pushing them as the face in comics and outside media so the general public can at least form a visual basis for the team.

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