Tim Drake's First Love Interest: Ariana Dzerchenko

[Frontier]

I feel like if they brought her back now it would be to emphasize how Tim's relationship issues were rooted in not only his Superhero identity but his sexuality.

[Timothy Hunter]

I'm quite surprised that people still remember Ariana. To be honest I always liked her, even if most of her relationship with Tim was filled with drama - in my mind she was always the opposite of Stephanie. I'd like to think Dixon was going for a Betty and Veronica situation, but I'm pretty sure that Tim and Stephanie were always meant to be put together and Ariana was just there to drum up the melodrama until we were all sick of it.

In the end she went where all of Tim's supporting cast goes: into the ether. Ives, Dana, Callie, Zoanne, Shotgun - they're all supporting characters that have been lost to the wayside. That's one of the things I disliked the most about the Robin series as time went on. Dixon himself traded the old cast for the new Brentwood cast after No Man's Land, Jon Lewis ditched the Brentwood cast, Willingham introduced his own characters like Bernard and Darla, Beechen switched Tim to a new school and we ended up at the end of 183 issues with almost none of Tim's supporting cast intact. The only one who makes it all the way through from the mini series to Red Robin is Ives, if you can believe it.

If I were in charge of a new Red Robin series or a similar ongoing, I would just bring all of the cast back, no muss no fuss. One of the greatest strengths of Tim's time as Robin was his supporting cast. Tim Drake Robin is the most Peter Parker like character in the Bat mythos. Unlike Bruce, who doesn't have to answer to anyone, Tim has responsibilities and people checking up on him. An admirable thing about Tim was how much he valued his secret identity. When Bruce tells Stephanie who Robin is, Tim freaks out at Batman. Even to someone he's known for over 80 issues, he still tears Batman a new one for releasing his secret. That's why Tim was inspiring at such a young age: because he had a deep rooted responsibility to protect the people in his life and keep the two halves of himself separate for everyone's safety. It was interesting, but ultimately saddening that this was eroded away through the years.

But yeah, I'd just bring her back as is. Maybe's she's just running a deli in Gotham somewhere. She wanted to work in fashion, but she never got there. Maybe a story about how not everyone can achieve their dreams/goals? She doesn't need to be brought back as a romantic interest, but just a supporting character that brings accountability to Tim's other half of life.

You're right on the ball. I thought that the 187 issues of Tim Drake's first ongoing was very consistent (aside from Jon Lewis and that Cassandra Cain fiasco) but nothing beats Tim's initial cast of supporting characters. I want to know what Shotgun Smith was up to!

[NOCTPHOENIX]

I feel like if they brought her back now it would be to emphasize how Tim's relationship issues were rooted in not only his Superhero identity but his sexuality.

Wait have they implied this?

[Frontier]

Wait have they implied this?

Not that I'm aware of, but I wouldn't put it past them right now.

[Restingvoice]

Meg Fitz isn't like Tom King in the sense that she won't put down the other love interests in comparison. She'll acknowledge that relationship exists and has meaning to Tim, similar to Steph, Cassie and Conner, but the conclusion will be something related to Tim's current state

Though I think Ariana's too far back especially since the same story's already done with Steph, Cass and Conner. They're more relevant and present. They were 14 back then and should be in college now. How many relationship broken up that far back can be relevant today? Unlike Steph, they didn't see each other again.

Now Darla Aquista on the other hand... THAT can be used as a Bernard backstory, like he was going after her because he was actually attracted to Tim but didn't realize it yet, something like that

[ChangingStation]

Meg Fitz isn't like Tom King in the sense that she won't put down the other love interests in comparison. She'll acknowledge that relationship exists and has meaning to Tim, similar to Steph, Cassie and Conner, but the conclusion will be something related to Tim's current state

Though I think Ariana's too far back especially since the same story's already done with Steph, Cass and Conner. They're more relevant and present. They were 14 back then and should be in college now. How many relationship broken up that far back can be relevant today? Unlike Steph, they didn't see each other again.

Now Darla Aquista on the other hand... THAT can be used as a Bernard backstory, like he was going after her because he was actually attracted to Tim but didn't realize it yet, something like that

Didn't Fitzmartin write a bit in Dark Crisis Young Justice where its suggested that Tim was the one to break up with Cassie, ignoring that Cassie was the one to break up with him because it was unhealthy? And more relevantly suggested that Conner somehow mistreated Cassie throughout their relationship?

I won't go as far to say that she'll put down the other love interests, though there can be seen some element of passive aggressiveness in certain actions, but she didn't exactly treat them that great either.

[OBrianTallent]

Didn't Fitzmartin write a bit in Dark Crisis Young Justice where its suggested that Tim was the one to break up with Cassie, ignoring that Cassie was the one to break up with him because it was unhealthy? And more relevantly suggested that Conner somehow mistreated Cassie throughout their relationship?

I won't go as far to say that she'll put down the other love interests, though there can be seen some element of passive aggressiveness in certain actions, but she didn't exactly treat them that great either.

Yes. Fitzmartin has been off on just about all of her Robin/YJ history, especially where relationships with Tim have been concerned.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Meg Fitz isn't like Tom King in the sense that she won't put down the other love interests in comparison. She'll acknowledge that relationship exists and has meaning to Tim, similar to Steph, Cassie and Conner, but the conclusion will be something related to Tim's current state

Though I think Ariana's too far back especially since the same story's already done with Steph, Cass and Conner. They're more relevant and present. They were 14 back then and should be in college now. How many relationship broken up that far back can be relevant today? Unlike Steph, they didn't see each other again.

Now Darla Aquista on the other hand... THAT can be used as a Bernard backstory, like he was going after her because he was actually attracted to Tim but didn't realize it yet, something like that

What are you talking about? She is putting down Steph. She literally says Tim was 'settling for' Bernard, is acting that Tim is in love for the first time, claims this is the first time his relationship has helped him define himself out of Batman and the Batfamn when Steph did that, has the weird emphasis on Steph hating Tim's new boat after showing how much Bernard and Tim like it and is basically saying Bernard is better than his past relationships including Steph. Not to mention Dark Crisis YJ when fake Batman implies Steph is some kind of shallow girl who only likes Tim for his costume/identity Tim doesn't defend her.

She is acting like Steph is a girl he dated for like a week, given how quicky he got over her and moved on. It holds no meaning to Tim whatsoever despite the fact he has loved her despite her dying, almost getting him killed (bad writing/OOC stuff) and reality changing. Not to mention how she is still getting over him. Everything she had Tim say in the pride special about Steph being "everything he wanted and more, and not lying about his feelings" is contradicted by everything else she has written about their relationship and in Tim's thought, so it feels like Tim was lying to her to make her feel good.

Any "meaning" Steph has from now on will just be as his "bestie" to ensure she isn't a threat. Even though in Red Robin and Batgirl despite their breakup, and eventual reconcilliation the two didn't properly finishing the transitition into friends due to lingering feelings and being cut short

Didn't Fitzmartin write a bit in Dark Crisis Young Justice where its suggested that Tim was the one to break up with Cassie, ignoring that Cassie was the one to break up with him because it was unhealthy? And more relevantly suggested that Conner somehow mistreated Cassie throughout their relationship?

I won't go as far to say that she'll put down the other love interests, though there can be seen some element of passive aggressiveness in certain actions, but she didn't exactly treat them that great either.

Not to mention in doing it removes Cassie's entire agency and perspective in the original version of the events and didn't really tell us what role Cassie had in the rewrite except for being dumped. She also in doing ignores that Tim had a genuine interest in the relationship work and wanted it to work. While Cassie's confrontation with her future self made her realize she was using Tim as a rebound, Tim's confrontation made him see his feelings for Cassie were genuine/becoming genuine and this is was something that could work and he wanted. Even on their first date Tim was going to tell her his feelings were real.

So she undermined his genuine interest in Cassie which of course treats it poorly.

[WebLurker]

...claims this is the first time his relationship has helped him define himself out of Batman and the Batfamn when Steph did that...

Steph is part of the BatFamily, too, so how does that work?

Not to mention Dark Crisis YJ when fake Batman implies Steph is some kind of shallow girl who only likes Tim for his costume/identity Tim doesn't defend her.

Wouldn't that reflect more on how Tim see Steph on some level (or how Fitzmartian is writing him as seeing Steph) than an objective labeling of the character?

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Steph is part of the BatFamily, too, so how does that work?



Wouldn't that reflect more on how Tim see Steph on some level (or how Fitzmartian is writing him as seeing Steph) than an objective labeling of the character?

I think we've had this discussion before but:

https://incoherentbabblings.tumblr.c...ions-trying-to

https://preview.redd.it/kh4kz5dz0zr9...=webp&155d1d27


As for the second point that's Fitzmarting writing Tim as being OOC and making him an asshat (par the course) if he actually does think that.

[ChangingStation]

Steph is part of the BatFamily, too, so how does that work?

To put it simply, not only is Stephanie part of the Batfamily mostly because of Tim, her relationship within it has often been on shaky grounds as a result. And as a result she gets issues about defining yourself outside it.

Or at least that's how I see it.

But this is a bit off topic when we were talking about Fitzmartin trying to adapt old characters like Arianna or Darla. And I have to say, I'm not confident of Fitzmartin's chances of being true to their initial characterisations.

[Konja7]

What are you talking about? She is putting down Steph. She literally says Tim was 'settling for' Bernard, is acting that Tim is in love for the first time, claims this is the first time his relationship has helped him define himself out of Batman and the Batfamn when Steph did that, has the weird emphasis on Steph hating Tim's new boat after showing how much Bernard and Tim like it and is basically saying Bernard is better than his past relationships including Steph. Not to mention Dark Crisis YJ when fake Batman implies Steph is some kind of shallow girl who only likes Tim for his costume/identity Tim doesn't defend her.

Honestly, I don't think Fitzmartin is trying to put Stephanie down. If Fitzmartin wanted this, she will likely make Stephanie homophobic or at least hostile to the relationship between Tim and Bernard (Fitzmartin isn't subtle when she wants to put a character down).

Fitzmartin wants to highlight the importance of Tim's relationship Bernard. Unfortunately, this is written in a way that ends up diminishing the importance of Tim's relationship with Stephanie. However, I don't think she really wants to make Stephanie look bad.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Honestly, I don't think Fitzmartin is trying to put Stephanie down. If Fitzmartin wanted this, she will likely make Stephanie homophobic or at least hostile to the relationship between Tim and Bernard (Fitzmartin isn't subtle when she wants to put a character down).

Fitzmartin wants to highlight the importance of Tim's relationship Bernard. Unfortunately, this is written in a way that ends up diminishing the importance of Tim's relationship with Stephanie. However, I don't think she really wants to make Stephanie look bad.

At the very least she hates the Tim and Stephanie relationship (and Tim with women in general) and is willing to throw it under the bus/trash it while also throwing shade at Steph in the process like the above stuff does.