Characters who your opinion has changed on over the years.

[babyblob]

So I wanted to see about some characters people's views have changed on for one reason or another. Could be you didnt like the growth or you just out grew them or whatever. Can be comics, movies, what ever.

I have a couple. The biggest for me is Batman. I used to love reading him. of course most of what I read was from the 60's or 70's. back when Superman was his best pal, he cared about Robin, and treated the Metal Men as crime fighting equals. (yes even Tin) But I havnt enjoyed too much of the modern stuff. Where Bruce is a jerk and batman can do everything including punk out guys like Green Lantern and Superman.

Another for me that I used to enjoy but do not anymore is Doctor Strange. I can handle him in guest roles and I loved the movie. But when I read his solo stuff I get more bored then anything. I used to love reading him. But now struggle through it.

As for things that changed for the better?

I used to hate reading the Silver age Dc. Didnt mind Marvel. But I avoided Dc at all costs. Now Silver Ager Dc is like one of my favorite ears of comics. I just love all the goofiness and cheese. I think this is because when I was in prison my bunkmate who was a huge comic book fan had some Showcase presents Black and White books with the 60's and 70's reprints. He let me read them and they were a great escape for me.

So what are some characters from any media that your have changed on and why?

[Adam Allen]

Well, going back decades for this, but I grew up in the 80s, and I used to love Wolverine, along with all of the other X-Men. I mean, I loved comics, loved Marvel over DC if you forced me to pick a company, and loved the X-Men over the rest of Marvel, again if you made me pick ... okay, as a single character, still would have been Spider-Man, but if we're talking more than a single character, again, the X-characters. I don't know if I would even have ever said Wolverine was ever my favorite X-Man, but that didn't really matter, because the X-Men was a whole ensemble thing. Loved Nightcrawler, and his friendship with Logan, loved Storm, so Wolverine was cool for his friendship with her ... Kitty was probably my favorite, and of course there was the whole Wolverine and Kitty min-series, so again -- at the end of the day, lots of reasons to like the dude with the metal claws, skeleton, and healing factor.

Fast forward to his taking center stage through the movies, and somewhere around his taking top billing in a "Wolverine and the X-Men" comic and cartoon, and I kind of started to hate him. I think it's for exactly the same reasons that I originally liked him. Like, I read the first issue of Wolverine and the X-Men, where Professor X is touring Logan's new school with him, and talking about how he always hoped one of his students would eventually take over for him as the leader for the next generation of mutants -- you know, without any mention at all that he'd hoped that was going to be Cyclops? -- and yeah, kind of couldn't stand Logan, by that point. It's that his sheer popularity just warped all of the other characters, the entire narrative of the story, to put him at the center. It was irritating.

Kind of disappointing too though, because hating on Wolverine for being popular was kind of a cliche thing. Still, couldn't help it. Don't know if I still hate him exactly, but he certainly never returned to the status of a favorite, that he once had.

[Zelena]

I would say the X-men as a whole too…

I wouldn’t say I hate them because they are just puppets maniputed by a puppeteer.

When I was little, I felt close to the X-men because they were very human despite their strange powers… So, they showed that being human covered a very broad definition.

Now, I see them the way they are in reality: puppets without a soul. The generosity has disappeared.

[CSTowle]

On the X-Men theme, Cyclops. I liked the terrorist/freedom fighter turn he took when Disney started suppressing the line and some of the writers started having him act like one would if they lived in a world where mutants were not only feared and hated, but seeming to be on the road to extinction. I will say that I never was a fan of Wolverine, but the turn they took with him (like with Daenerys in GoT, also was never a fan of but felt bad towards the end) was out of character and made him look awful. Not into children as soldiers? He's the guy who went out of his way to team up with underage girls at every opportunity (Kitty/Jubilee).

For the most part I'd say any character can be interesting if the writing is. I grew up reading really bad Image comics because they were popular, but never liked most of the characters. Then you had writers like Alan Moore take on Rob Liefeld's Supreme (Superman knock-off) and Jim Lee's WildC.A.T.S., and Warren Ellis take on Stormwatch, and suddenly those books are among my favorites.

As a curmudgeonly old comics nerd I'm often sad that all of these comic movies are coming out, and I'm not enjoying very many of them. Not just the changes from the comics themselves (almost has to happen to adapt to a movie audience, so I get that), but just how bad or at best C+ average the writing and acting is because (again) they have to appeal to a wide audience. Most have adopted the Guardians of the Galaxy template of action/quip/quip/action/quip/quip because it was successful and easy, lots of CGI monsters and explosions, but I don't care about any of the characters. And some (like Spider-Man) are so far from who they are in the comics outside of some superficial details that I wish they'd call them something else (maybe Iron-Lad?).

There are exceptions. Legion/David Haller is a character I couldn't stand in the comics. His TV series is one of my favorite comic-related things ever. "Watchmen" on HBO sounded like a horrible idea, and by all rights should have been a horrible product, but was very good. Maybe part of that was my hating the Legion character and having such low expectations for the Watchmen series that I was surprised, as opposed to really liking Spider-Man and the X-Men and having to cringe through their counterparts on the big screen. But I find writing is the key, and while I have favorite characters I'd much rather follow a writer or writers than characters.

[Mister Mets]

I can't think of characters I've grown to dislike over the years. If a book that once interested me is one I find boring now, I'm not likely to think about it much.

There are a few characters I've come to appreciate. I initially thought Aquaman, the Barry Allen Flash and Hal Jordan Green Lantern were bland, but then read takes on the characters that showed what made them unique.

[Adam Allen]

On the X-Men theme, Cyclops. I liked the terrorist/freedom fighter turn he took when Disney started suppressing the line and some of the writers started having him act like one would if they lived in a world where mutants were not only feared and hated, but seeming to be on the road to extinction. I will say that I never was a fan of Wolverine, but the turn they took with him (like with Daenerys in GoT, also was never a fan of but felt bad towards the end) was out of character and made him look awful. Not into children as soldiers? He's the guy who went out of his way to team up with underage girls at every opportunity (Kitty/Jubilee).

For the most part I'd say any character can be interesting if the writing is. I grew up reading really bad Image comics because they were popular, but never liked most of the characters. Then you had writers like Alan Moore take on Rob Liefeld's Supreme (Superman knock-off) and Jim Lee's WildC.A.T.S., and Warren Ellis take on Stormwatch, and suddenly those books are among my favorites.

As a curmudgeonly old comics nerd I'm often sad that all of these comic movies are coming out, and I'm not enjoying very many of them. Not just the changes from the comics themselves (almost has to happen to adapt to a movie audience, so I get that), but just how bad or at best C+ average the writing and acting is because (again) they have to appeal to a wide audience. Most have adopted the Guardians of the Galaxy template of action/quip/quip/action/quip/quip because it was successful and easy, lots of CGI monsters and explosions, but I don't care about any of the characters. And some (like Spider-Man) are so far from who they are in the comics outside of some superficial details that I wish they'd call them something else (maybe Iron-Lad?).

There are exceptions. Legion/David Haller is a character I couldn't stand in the comics. His TV series is one of my favorite comic-related things ever. "Watchmen" on HBO sounded like a horrible idea, and by all rights should have been a horrible product, but was very good. Maybe part of that was my hating the Legion character and having such low expectations for the Watchmen series that I was surprised, as opposed to really liking Spider-Man and the X-Men and having to cringe through their counterparts on the big screen. But I find writing is the key, and while I have favorite characters I'd much rather follow a writer or writers than characters.

That is one that changed within just a few years (the length of the series), for me. I am totally with you about loving season one. I mean, I never hated Legion from the comics, but then I never really read the stuff even by the time he killed Professor X and started House of M. My only exposure was where David was more or less a minor character, while "Legion" as a whole served as a plot device -- somehow, several x-characters got pulled into his head, you get to meet several alternate personalities, including at least one bad guy, but then of course the good guys prevail. So, basically I was neutral on the character, when the show started.

I absolutely loved the first season, though. Great characters, and I loved the sense of unreality -- very much fit to the story centering around David, and his being something of an unreliable narrator. I loved how it seemed vague, what time period the show was set in, and the idea that it might be somehow a part of the larger X-Men cinematic universe. Apocalypse of course had been a horrid movie, so this seemed a better potential follow-up to First Class and Days of Future Past. Basically, gave some hope for the franchise not totally falling apart.

Of course, by the end, it was not connected to any of the movies at all, and this was I guess just some completely separate and different universe than any of that. Which would have been fair enough, but I also felt like the show just started to fall apart through season two, mostly I'd say by focusing much too completely on David, to the exclusion of the other characters. And sure, I realize the show is called Legion, and he is the central character. Still think it would have been better if seasons two and three were less focused on him and Sid, and if the supporting characters from season one had been focused on more. I guess kind of like how what I liked about X-Men back in the day was that it was an ensemble thing ... some arcs and issues might focus more on Storm, or Rogue, or Colossus, and no one character ever really just dominated as having the overall narrative of the book being about them.

I think Legion would have been a better show, had they gone that route. Because, much as I think the actor did a great job, David ultimately was just not so incredibly interesting, to need everything to just remain focused on him, all the way through. Maybe it's the overall kind of message that I have kind of a problem with; you know, even in our own lives? Sure, obviously you are unavoidably the main character, in your own story. But, you know what, it's still not always just all about you!

[Jackalope89]

Agreed on Batman. Old Batman, despite his trauma as a child, was able to grow up and not be controlled by his anger and be an over d-bag. Let alone the whole bat-god thing.

[Powerboy]

So I wanted to see about some characters people's views have changed on for one reason or another. Could be you didnt like the growth or you just out grew them or whatever. Can be comics, movies, what ever.

I have a couple. The biggest for me is Batman. I used to love reading him. of course most of what I read was from the 60's or 70's. back when Superman was his best pal, he cared about Robin, and treated the Metal Men as crime fighting equals. (yes even Tin) But I havnt enjoyed too much of the modern stuff. Where Bruce is a jerk and batman can do everything including punk out guys like Green Lantern and Superman.

Another for me that I used to enjoy but do not anymore is Doctor Strange. I can handle him in guest roles and I loved the movie. But when I read his solo stuff I get more bored then anything. I used to love reading him. But now struggle through it.

As for things that changed for the better?

I used to hate reading the Silver age Dc. Didnt mind Marvel. But I avoided Dc at all costs. Now Silver Ager Dc is like one of my favorite ears of comics. I just love all the goofiness and cheese. I think this is because when I was in prison my bunkmate who was a huge comic book fan had some Showcase presents Black and White books with the 60's and 70's reprints. He let me read them and they were a great escape for me.

So what are some characters from any media that your have changed on and why?

Interesting discussion I had about Batman with a friend of mine.

Him: I used to be completely a Batman fanatic. He had the best Rogue's gallery and the best everything. The Batmobile, Bat-plane, Bat-cave and so on along with the utility belt and on and on including the various bat-a-rangs. Then they went into this Dark Knight stuff and I just drifted away and lost all interest.

Me: Yeah. A lot of people love the Frank Miller stuff and a lot don't.

Him: Okay, you're going to have to explain that to me. Who is Frank Miller and what did he do?

Me: Oh, I just assumed you knew since you mentioned the Dark Knight stuff. About 1985, Miller wrote "The Dark Knight Returns". It was out of continuity but became very popular and the in continuity Batman became very cynical and the friendship with Superman was shaky at best and so on.

Him: Oh, well, no. Maybe this Miller guy took it to an extreme but that Dark Knight stuff started long before that, at least ten years before, which is when I stopped reading Batman.

I'm not as negative on the Dark Knight stuff as he is but definitely not a fan.

But I relate on that other thing too.

During the 1970s, I reached an age where I was really tired of the DC stuff because I was growing out of the age group so much of it was designed for. There were things I loved like the Green Lantern and Green Arrow trip across America. But I was much more a Marvel guy because it was adapting to the changing age of current readers. In fact, when Superman (1978) came out, I loved it so much I gave DC another try after several years absent. Unfortunately, the particular Superman comic I bought only reaffirmed my opinion that DC was still for little kids.

But, jump ahead to decades later and I love the old Silver Age DC stuff. Of course it's for kids and people that can enjoy stuff for kids. Why should it adapt to an older group and leave children behind? Or offer stuff specially made for children that is not the main focus and seems blatantly dumbed down?

Although I wasn't in prison, I think the principle is the same. The Silver Age stuff was a fun escape while the current stuff generally isn't. It's also nostalgia. It's what comics were when I was growing up and that's a big part of the appeal.