Is there bias or unintentional sexism in tom taylor's writing of WW?

[Alpha]

It's just far too undefined.

What if Joker was on one side of the room and Bane was on the other?

If Bane knocked her across the room to the Joker side, would she suddenly loose her Bane strength and be left with Joker strength?

How strong is she if she's not fighting anyone? If a bridge started to collapse, would she be able to hold it up or would she have to wait for Bizarro to try punching her first? What if she's holding up the bridge and Bizarro then stops trying to hit her?

What counts as fighting? Does she have to wait for Ares to throw a punch? If Circe is just standing there insulting her, does that count? Does she get their strength as soon as they appears?

Yeah I love all these little questions.

As far as your question about a bridge. I think the wording of her power rule would be "Diana is as strong as any single challenge she faces". That is the game of words that gods like to play. So the bridge would also be considered an adversary simply because she is trying to lift it.

And Diana's aura automatically makes her as strong as the strongest person around her, so even if it's not a villain she would still be as strong as him. And she can use the Lasso of Truth as an extension of that aura, so if she holds onto it and someone else is tied up in it, it counts as her touching them and thus also matching their strength.

And to me the coolest part is that Veronica Cale would punch her and break her hand on Diana's hard skin, and then would get punched back and cry like a baby. But whenever there was a fight versus Darkseid or Mongul or whoever, Diana would instantly be the powerhouse regardless of whatever the writer wants. Like yeah, Thor also has that kind of cosmical rule eith his hammer and there are moments where writers break the rule, but it's very rare and they always have to make up an explicit excuse that points out how much of an exception this is.

[Stanlos]

I'm really shocked that this list placed Diana so highly. Because you know these lists usually downplay her.

The 15 Strongest Movie Superheroes, Ranked



https://www.cbr.com/strongest-movie-...cu-pixar-dceu/

I no longer take the CBR articles seriously. They are now a verb away from being about as reputable as the old Wizard Magazine writers room.

Some truly silly stuff has been coming out of there lately

[Stanlos]

The quote is "as strong as ANY superman"

It was relative to point to Dominant Force. So those weird tropes where the feminine is maligned as lesser hold no sway over WW. The rape fantasies, the notions of bitching someone out, etc. Etc all got turned on their head.

And that is something that is to this day STILL challenging to folk. And the weird for me is the double standard. First means something until it is her creator who was first to literally define the character at conception as "Invincible yet human"; or to define her strength and speed as superior, bar none.

Neither Superman's creators nor Captain Marvel creators were on that. And WW being what she was defined to be does not lessen Supes and the others in ANY way.

We can look to Grant Morrison's WW Earth One to see a concise encapsulation of the challenge for basic folks. In it he has WW be subjugated by Dr. Psycho as she falls unconscious he refers to her as "just another woman"

And that is the base desire for those folks. They cannot brook such a challenge when literally so much of their identities and world views are built on a particular performative view of what Woman is and what Woman is NOT and--they wish--cannot be.

But guess what? WW has zero bleeps to give.

She is not "just" anything and she is not anyone's lesser. No matter how much you wish it so.

Grant Morrison has also been recorded stating that WW "isn't like a real woman at all". Too bad for him and others like him because she is both Woman and Wonder.

Her design is as legitimate as any other heroes. And the idea of her quite literally has changed the world for the better.

She wields Dominant Force and is inferior to no man, super or otherwise. And she doesn't have to trade her Feminity to do it. WW = Feminine + Dominant Force

As an aside:
That is why I am not sold on this notion that she or her sisters all have to be jacked to high heaven.

[Alpha]

As an aside:
That is why I am not sold on this notion that she or her sisters all have to be jacked to high heaven.

I'm not sure what you mean. It seems like you're saying a bulky woman is less feminine, but I'm guessing that's not what you meant so please explain what it is you wanted to say

[SonOfBaldwin]

It's not really a matter of opinion tho. If the person you are talking to doesn't know the information, then it's literally not mansplaining. It's not really a matter of opinion

The point behind mansplaining is that it reveals a baseline disrespect for the female gender by disregarding any of their merit and treating them as children that need to be informed.

If we watch Scooby Doo and you tell me you felt like Scooby Doo was a human, you can feel whatever you want, but the word human has a meaning, and Scooby Doo isn't one.

Conveniently making your opinion a "fact" and making up analogies to favor your perspective just so that you can discount my opinion as wrong or irrelevant is not a game I play. Having revealed yourself thusly, this is not a conversation I'm going to continue. And you are not changing my mind or my perspective. Take care.

[SonOfBaldwin]

The quote is "as strong as ANY superman"

It was relative to point to Dominant Force. So those weird tropes where the feminine is maligned as lesser hold no sway over WW. The rape fantasies, the notions of bitching someone out, etc. Etc all got turned on their head.

And that is something that is to this day STILL challenging to folk. And the weird for me is the double standard. First means something until it is her creator who was first to literally define the character at conception as "Invincible yet human"; or to define her strength and speed as superior, bar none.

Neither Superman's creators nor Captain Marvel creators were on that. And WW being what she was defined to be does not lessen Supes and the others in ANY way.

We can look to Grant Morrison's WW Earth One to see a concise encapsulation of the challenge for basic folks. In it he has WW be subjugated by Dr. Psycho as she falls unconscious he refers to her as "just another woman"

And that is the base desire for those folks. They cannot brook such a challenge when literally so much of their identities and world views are built on a particular performative view of what Woman is and what Woman is NOT and--they wish--cannot be.

But guess what? WW has zero bleeps to give.

She is not "just" anything and she is not anyone's lesser. No matter how much you wish it so.

Grant Morrison has also been recorded stating that WW "isn't like a real woman at all". Too bad for him and others like him because she is both Woman and Wonder.

Her design is as legitimate as any other heroes. And the idea of her quite literally has changed the world for the better.

She wields Dominant Force and is inferior to no man, super or otherwise. And she doesn't have to trade her Feminity to do it. WW = Feminine + Dominant Force

As an aside:
That is why I am not sold on this notion that she or her sisters all have to be jacked to high heaven.

[Alpha]

Conveniently making your opinion a "fact" and making up analogies to favor your perspective just so that you can discount my opinion as wrong or irrelevant is not a game I play. Having revealed yourself thusly, this is not a conversation I'm going to continue. And you are not changing my mind or my perspective. Take care.

It's not an opinion. You used an expression that has a meaning and the situation you described doesn't fit that description.

You can say that Steve Trevor explaining the world to Diana is problematic, and I could agree (which I don't) but even if I agreed it still wouldn't make it mansplaining.

My personal opinions have nothing to do with it, you either don't know what the expression means or you purposely ignore it's meaning.

If a white person becomes Black Panther it isn't Blackface. It's problematic but it isn't blackface. And regardless of what I think about Steve, it wasn't mansplaining. You can choose to be conscious about what you're doung or continue to pretend I'm some kind of authoritarian over words. Your choice

But if you're trying to talk about serious issues, I'm gonna taoe you seriously. You aren't a kid so take responsibility for what you do.

[bardkeep]

The quote is "as strong as ANY superman"

It was relative to point to Dominant Force. So those weird tropes where the feminine is maligned as lesser hold no sway over WW. The rape fantasies, the notions of bitching someone out, etc. Etc all got turned on their head.

And that is something that is to this day STILL challenging to folk. And the weird for me is the double standard. First means something until it is her creator who was first to literally define the character at conception as "Invincible yet human"; or to define her strength and speed as superior, bar none.

Neither Superman's creators nor Captain Marvel creators were on that. And WW being what she was defined to be does not lessen Supes and the others in ANY way.

We can look to Grant Morrison's WW Earth One to see a concise encapsulation of the challenge for basic folks. In it he has WW be subjugated by Dr. Psycho as she falls unconscious he refers to her as "just another woman"

And that is the base desire for those folks. They cannot brook such a challenge when literally so much of their identities and world views are built on a particular performative view of what Woman is and what Woman is NOT and--they wish--cannot be.

But guess what? WW has zero bleeps to give.

She is not "just" anything and she is not anyone's lesser. No matter how much you wish it so.

Grant Morrison has also been recorded stating that WW "isn't like a real woman at all". Too bad for him and others like him because she is both Woman and Wonder.

Her design is as legitimate as any other heroes. And the idea of her quite literally has changed the world for the better.

She wields Dominant Force and is inferior to no man, super or otherwise. And she doesn't have to trade her Feminity to do it. WW = Feminine + Dominant Force

As an aside:
That is why I am not sold on this notion that she or her sisters all have to be jacked to high heaven.

This is it, and this is exactly what I mean when I say "when you write her, you inherit her politics." It's one of many reasons why I find it endlessly frustrating when her narrative is rewritten to ensure that she's an exception in a story that still favors the male hegemon (see: n52).

Only thing I'm not sure about is the last point - I don't think her being thin reinforces any of the points you made. She shouldn't be drawn looking like a male bodybuilder with ****, but there's a lot of merit to a design that resists the demand that women be small. Darwyn Cooke's Diana feels like the perfect in-between - she's always the tallest in the room and she looks strong and takes up space, but her body type is VERY feminine.

[Stanlos]

I'm not sure what you mean. It seems like you're saying a bulky woman is less feminine, but I'm guessing that's not what you meant so please explain what it is you wanted to say

That is indeed not what I said. Thank you for acknowledging that. The post refers to my existing post in that thread and deals with how conventional thought typically views the packaging for strength. Male or Female, it needn't be uberbulky especially in the case of Supes and Wondy where the explanations for their powers go beyond exercise as opposed to say Cap Marvel where in old interps Cap is Billy's fantasy idea of what a hero looks like.

That is one thing I think the Rebirth team really excelled in and that is showing a wide variety of female bodies with all of them being strong and powerful (although sadly not as strong or powerful as the original interp in Marston's run).

Hopefully that along with the original reply in that thread helps clarify my thought.

[Stanlos]

This is it, and this is exactly what I mean when I say "when you write her, you inherit her politics." It's one of many reasons why I find it endlessly frustrating when her narrative is rewritten to ensure that she's an exception in a story that still favors the male hegemon (see: n52).

Only thing I'm not sure about is the last point - I don't think her being thin reinforces any of the points you made. She shouldn't be drawn looking like a male bodybuilder with ****, but there's a lot of merit to a design that resists the demand that women be small. Darwyn Cooke's Diana feels like the perfect in-between - she's always the tallest in the room and she looks strong and takes up space, but her body type is VERY feminine.

We're on the same page with the body type thing essentially. I think what I am failing to communicate is the challenge in that area will be different today than it was in the 40s. But no matter what, she should always be a proponent of safety and celebration of all forms of women.

[Alpha]

This is it, and this is exactly what I mean when I say "when you write her, you inherit her politics." It's one of many reasons why I find it endlessly frustrating when her narrative is rewritten to ensure that she's an exception in a story that still favors the male hegemon (see: n52).

Only thing I'm not sure about is the last point - I don't think her being thin reinforces any of the points you made. She shouldn't be drawn looking like a male bodybuilder with ****, but there's a lot of merit to a design that resists the demand that women be small. Darwyn Cooke's Diana feels like the perfect in-between - she's always the tallest in the room and she looks strong and takes up space, but her body type is VERY feminine.

Wouldn't you consider this feminine?

[bardkeep]

Wouldn't you consider this feminine?

It works with Otto Schmidt's heavily stylized design, but with less cartoonish takes I prefer something less top-heavy like these:





Basically thighs that are much bigger than her arms, wide hips, a proportional chest, and a defined waist, with plenty of muscle definition but not overly cut/lean. I like it a lot because it's a uniquely feminine depiction of a strong body that you don't see represented much in comic books or animation.

[Alpha]

Yeah I can be satisfied with that. Still like some slight more experimentation with her bulkyness from time to time, but I'm good with what you posted

[Stanlos]

An Amazon salute and a twirl to you, Sis!

[Guy_McNichts]

So, unless they're somehow still mourning Diana, looks like the Wonders are taking another hit in this series.

Pretty on brand for Taylor at this point.

Apparently, as I understand, the heroes found a cure for zombie virus. So Hippolyta and the Amazons are back to normal and have only just found out about Diana's death, so this will indeed be her they're mourning and not Cassie.

I'm calling it right now: this is going to be so cringe. Painfully so.

I know Taylor has actually defended the one-punch death on Twitter as a noble and heroic sacrifice, and from what I've seen, he's very petty about online comments. What are the odds he uses this funeral-or-whatever scene to insist no, really, Wonder Woman getting murdered with literally a single blow was totally heroic and saved lives?

Honestly, I almost wish it was Cassie. Because then we could roll our eyes over Taylor being Taylor. Now he's just going to rub our faces in his awful treatment of Diana.