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  1. #16
    Spectacular Member JTHM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    See it bothers me with the mass murdering villains who want to redeem themselves by becoming heroes/anti heroes. If they were really sorry and wanted to make amends they would turn themselves into the police and do their time just like any other criminal. Do they get a pass for not going to jail because they have powers? Do you think the family of a person Venom has killed will go "Well he murdered my father but he stopped a hold up at the 7-11 so im cool with that."

    Sorry like I said that has always been a part of comics that bothered me. I hate seeing the villain turned hero/anti hero story.
    Venom was never a mass murderer. At least, not the Eddie Brock incarnation.

    I'm not saying Eddie is completely guilt-free of the bad things he did under the Symbiote, but again, he was bonded to an alien that fed on his rage and amplified a lot of his bad tendencies. He wasn't in his right state of mind either, Murdock wasn't entirely making stuff up in that.

    And to be honest, I don't really get appealing to sensibilities like that either. Like, I understand the point, but it's not like those were real people either. There is a lot, lot of characters in comics that have gone through arcs like those, and it happens because the crux of permanent continuity is that, if you want to write a story like that, you gotta carry around the continuity of everyone else before you. And that's not exclusive to Venom either. - Even Spider-Man himself had mishaps that do not fit current or older depictions of the character, so the writer in turn decides to ignore them to their benefit.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post

    In a world were the heroes want people who cause deaths held accountable, even accidental deaths it is okay to hang with a mass murderer and let him go at the end of of the story because gee whiz he helped stop a purse snatcher.

    That is the one area of comics that have always bothered me.
    Why do you say it's a world where heroes want people accountable?

    Nobody is held accountable in superhero comics. A villain will never get what he deserves because he needs to keep coming back in future stories.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evolutionaryFan View Post
    Why do you say it's a world where heroes want people accountable?

    Nobody is held accountable in superhero comics. A villain will never get what he deserves because he needs to keep coming back in future stories.
    I get that. I mean the whole go to jail and escape just a couple hours later is a huge thing in comics. Like Arkham in Batman stories. I love the line no jail will ever hold me.

    But what I hate is when they do this villain redemption arcs. The writers ignoring years of murder and crimes. I know it is not real life I just hate that plot device. I know Venom/Eddie was not as bad as others. Its like the second run of Superior Spiderman. Everyone knew that this was Doc Ock in a cloned body. He has killed how many people? Tried to destroy the Earth's ozone layer. But that is all good because he said he was really sorry and stopped a car jacking. Even Peter who he tried to erase out of existence is fine with it.

    I just really have to not think about it when I read those stories. Because if I think too hard they will be less fun.

    I say held accountable because there are tons of stories, or at least were dont know too many now where the heroes were like man he killed a guy he needs to be in jail. He robbed a bank he needs to be in jail. Then go to a baseball game with The Punisher.
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  4. #19
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    I thought he got pardoned after he carried everyone during Absolute Carnage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    are you implying that captain america talking about how cool a known murderer is while captain marvel's only thought is that he's hot is terrible writing or something
    Say it ain't so.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I get that. I mean the whole go to jail and escape just a couple hours later is a huge thing in comics. Like Arkham in Batman stories. I love the line no jail will ever hold me.

    But what I hate is when they do this villain redemption arcs. The writers ignoring years of murder and crimes. I know it is not real life I just hate that plot device. I know Venom/Eddie was not as bad as others. Its like the second run of Superior Spiderman. Everyone knew that this was Doc Ock in a cloned body. He has killed how many people? Tried to destroy the Earth's ozone layer. But that is all good because he said he was really sorry and stopped a car jacking. Even Peter who he tried to erase out of existence is fine with it.

    I just really have to not think about it when I read those stories. Because if I think too hard they will be less fun.
    Yeah, I experience a lot of that with superhero comics. I miss the time when I was younger and these kinds of issues just wouldn't occur to me. I'd just read the story and go with the flow.

  6. #21
    Spectacular Member Toonstrack's Avatar
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    Venom already helped save the world at least 3 times and that's just Coates run. Considering that pretty much Avenger at this point has just as much if not more blood on their hands than Eddie I dont see the problem

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    Considering that pretty much Avenger at this point has just as much if not more blood on their hands than Eddie I dont see the problem
    Is this really true? The average Avenger has killed a bunch of innocent people?

  8. #23
    Spectacular Member Toonstrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evolutionaryFan View Post
    Is this really true? The average Avenger has killed a bunch of innocent people?

    Well Tony and Thor definitely do. Widow probably does too. Carol, I don't know enough of her story to say definitely. Hulk probably not as he was recently retconned into nor actually killing anyone in any of his attacks. Hawkeye, uncertain. Ghost Rider was on the team, that in and of itself is a whole can of worms. Cap between his alternate versions and secret empire and other bad decisions probably has a few casualties.

  9. #24
    Spectacular Member JTHM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evolutionaryFan View Post
    Is this really true? The average Avenger has killed a bunch of innocent people?
    Black Widow is an iconic member and she is well capable of killing people without much thought for it. In fact she killed many people who didn't deserve it thanks to the Red Room.

  10. #25
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    I thought he got pardoned after he carried everyone during Absolute Carnage.



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  11. #26
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    Venom already helped save the world at least 3 times and that's just Coates run. Considering that pretty much Avenger at this point has just as much if not more blood on their hands than Eddie I dont see the problem
    Quote Originally Posted by evolutionaryFan View Post
    Is this really true? The average Avenger has killed a bunch of innocent people?
    Not quite true, I'd say, but particularly in the 2000s, starting around Avengers Disassembled or so, the Avengers collectively have a lot of innocent blood to answer for due to a lot of bad decisions they made in that era, the original superhero Civil War chief among them. Even before that, Hank Pym, a founding Avenger, was Ultron's creator and Ultron went on to slaughter an entire country and then turn the corpses into cyborg drones, not to mention he even hijacked the Phalanx in space and used it/them to conquer much of the known universe, starting with the Kree Empire, in Annihilation: Conquest. Hell, that was what made that period almost unbearable, that the likes of the "heroes" were at best going too far out of good intentions or at worst were utterly amoral hypocrites, while the villains were almost all remorselessly, gleefully psychopathic murderers.
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  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Captain Craig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    Venom has pretty much become the marvel Version of Harley Quinn. A person who has done very bad things, killed innocent people. But he sells and is popular so it is okay for him to play poker with the very heroes he has tried many times to kill.
    Venom was laying the foundation for DC to do this with Harley when she was still just a toon in a leotard.
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  13. #28
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    Is this really true? The average Avenger has killed a bunch of innocent people?
    Cap did in ww2, namor did, wolverine has, mockingbird did once in wca, deadpool did, blade did, conan did, thor has. black widow has, ares has.

    Keep in mind most of these were when they were not on duty as avengers and on their own time. Mockingbird did as a avenger and was kicked out for it!

    As for venom they did put him on trial twice--

    [IMG][/IMG]

    and again here--

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Last edited by Gaastra; 01-27-2021 at 07:46 AM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHM View Post
    Venom was never a mass murderer. At least, not the Eddie Brock incarnation.

    I'm not saying Eddie is completely guilt-free of the bad things he did under the Symbiote, but again, he was bonded to an alien that fed on his rage and amplified a lot of his bad tendencies. He wasn't in his right state of mind either, Murdock wasn't entirely making stuff up in that.

    And to be honest, I don't really get appealing to sensibilities like that either. Like, I understand the point, but it's not like those were real people either. There is a lot, lot of characters in comics that have gone through arcs like those, and it happens because the crux of permanent continuity is that, if you want to write a story like that, you gotta carry around the continuity of everyone else before you. And that's not exclusive to Venom either. - Even Spider-Man himself had mishaps that do not fit current or older depictions of the character, so the writer in turn decides to ignore them to their benefit.
    This.

    If I remember correctly, I think the only innocent person Brock has killed was prison guard or something just after he re-bonded with the symbiote. The family of that guard went after him hard for this (i cant remember the series, it was way back in the 90s).

    At least going by the Brock solo series, he hasn't actually killed that many people and always made a point of protecting innocent people. Even when he was trying to kill Spider-man, he's always been laser focused on killing Peter alone.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    Cap did in ww2, namor did, wolverine has, mockingbird did once in wca, deadpool did, blade did, conan did, thor has. black widow has, ares has.

    Keep in mind most of these were when they were not on duty as avengers and on their own time. Mockingbird did as a avenger and was kicked out for it!

    As for venom they did put him on trial twice--

    [IMG][/IMG]

    and again here--

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Very true.

    Most Avengers have killed individually before. Iron Man has also killed a number of people before (he fairly recently killed Mallen at the end of the Ellis Extremis arc).

    A lot of Marvel characters don't actually have explicit no-kill policies.
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