Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
I think that was toyed with here and there in older comics, but not really a thing until Tim came around. I can't say I care for it. Robin's main role was to function as a Watson to Batman's Holmes and give him someone to bounce ideas off of, and to provide guidance for someone who went through a similar tragedy and also simply to have a friend. Robin being a needed morality chain to keep Batman from flying off the handle isn't a remotely good look for Batman. I think Bruce consciously reigns himself in to be a good influence for Dick, but it would still be a small part of their relationship and Bruce would would also independtly mature as he grows older (he is typically only in his early 20s when he starts).

Even when Dick became Nightwing originally, his friction with Bruce comes across as Dick not being a totally reliable narrator and he's as much to blame for the friction in their dynamic as Bruce is, and then they come to terms at Donna's wedding like adults. Instead post-COIE changed it to Bruce firing him and it escalated from there. I think despite the overall boost in popularity for the brand, as a character Batman took some of the hardest hits in the changes around COIE. He changes, and most definitely not for the better. In a realistic scenario, the Batman-Robin dynamic wouldn't be healthy but it's fantasy. Nowadays, even within the fantasy setting of the DCU it comes across poorly, and that's not remotely a good thing to me either.
I think people kind of oversell the idea of Robin being around keeps Batman from flying off the handle. It was more how the two balanced each other out and how Robin was the light to Batman's dark and how Batman helped the Robin's develop as people from their personal tragedies and prior lives. In general Batman's surrogate family has a healing effect on him and the loss he continually deals with.
Much like the firing of Dick post-COIE and later crawling back to the Bat-offices when the Titans brand fell off, it comes off as a demotion that elevates Batman even further over Robin by giving him even that much more experience.

The argument that establishing the character dynamics between Batman and the villain doesn't entirely work, because it's not as if it has to be mutually exclusive. With the simple writing of the older comics, it's not like it would have happened even if Robin hadn't been there. And in stuff like BTAS, Poison Ivy's first encounter was pretty much a villain of the week, and her more character driven episode "House and Garden" had Robin in it.
I just don't see it so much of a demotion from just an initial encounter, because continuity-wise we know that the more Supervillains popped up in Gotham the harder it became for Batman to do his job before Robin showed up and then Batgirl. I don't even see writers thinking they need to elevate Batman over Robin because Robin is already Batman's sidekick.

It may not be mutually exclusive but it was how a lot of those initial encounters in Post-Crisis were structured story-wise. I for one prefer where Robin comes in after Harvey Dent becomes Two-Face so we have that battle of the "partners" rivalry.

Ivy's first appearance entirely set up her character and motivations, though. Robin worked in "House and Garden" but did he need to be in her debut episode just because he was in the comics?
Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
Also, as a fan of old-school Dick Grayson and the dynamic with Bruce, Alfred being Bruce's guardian has resulted in Dick being displaced as the person closest to Bruce, who he trusted most, etc (as he was in the bronze age when Dick was a young man). I don't care for that. Besides that, though, and what's really irritating to me is that it's resulted in the idea of Bruce who took Dick in expecting Alfred to do the heavy-lifting and having to be nudged/coerced/ordered to be a parent, v. the original where Bruce willingly took on the role and had no problem being that parent.
Isn't it always Bruce's choice, though? I mean, maybe there was one or two instances of Alfred suggesting the idea, but any neglect I can think of came less from Bruce putting the brunt of the work on Alfred and more Bruce being busy as Batman (particularly trying to find Tony Zucco or some major crime).