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  1. #9
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Jun 2019
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    You kinda answered your own question: No Man's Land.

    It's kinda hard not to become nihilistic when your own government leaves you and your beloved city for dead.
    I'm going to the voice of opposition here. A lot of people say he went bad after No Man's Land - to me, he was already bad by then. It's the point of no return for me, when I generally only read Batman stuff published after that if I've heard something that sounds particularly good or want specific information. The way he ordered Dick to take Blackgate with no regard to what Dick had going on was very disrespectful. Earlier, there was the spying on Babs in the Clocktower, which I had major issue with. But the biggie was the set up for No Man's Land when he'd rather have Gothamites suffer and die than have other heroes in his city or cede any control. I have so many problems with others listening, too, but it made so selfish, and so egocentric that it was just the last straw to me.

    For me, things begin going downhill late pre-COIE (the entire set up of Batman and the Outsiders - a team only answerable to Batman and the disrespect for the JLA, is so problematic to me). And Bruce started treating other heroes more poorly - quite visible in some early post-COIE works. And he was a very poor parent to Jason at times post-COIE. But there was still a some good, too, for a while. I've heard it said that some vestiges of pre-COIE Batman remained until the mid 1990s, and then just petered out, but I'm not sure if that's true.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 01-25-2021 at 04:53 PM.

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