What's Your Headcanon For Why Batman Turned Into A Jerk In The '00s?

[Zaresh]

Not really, the Batfamily are always chewing him out and calling him out whenever he does anything wrong. At best he's written as a "jerkass has a point" type, where people will admit he's right about something but still think he's an *******.

No, not in most batcomics I read. They always justify it. Last time? When he punched Tim, or when he send Damian to what was going to be disaster. Sure, they point out "maybe you should've done differently". But there's always a "but" afterwards, like "but you have a point". And that "but" invalidates any criticism. And then they keep allowing him doing it again anyways. There are no consequences.

[Agent Z]

The Batgod whining has been jumped the shark, as you said anytime he does ANYTHING remotely impressive, people will cry Batgod. It's hard to even take the complaints seriously anymore. I'm convinced that if Bruce could open a pickle jar someone else was struggling with that lame insult would rear it's ugly head. I especially find it funny how the JL/U Batman was called that for the things he did, but Robin on the Teen Titans cartoon who was pretty much Batgod Jr. never got labeled with any such nickname.

Teen Titans Robin could fight Slade evenly 1 on 1 even when Slade could beat the other 3 SUPERPOWERED members all by himself. But sure, a teenage boy with no powers is a match for him. Robin could also be a moody jerk on the show but he never gets **** for it. Bruce not acting like Mister Rogers makes him a monster tho.

Also, if Bruce is such a horrible person with so many negative character traits, how the hell is he a Mary Sue? Wouldn't a Mary Sue be someone with no flaws? You could call him one if he acted like Ned Flanders but he doesn't. He has flaws that get brought up by other characters all the damn time. "I don't like this character so I hate when they have impressive feats" isn't the same thing as said character being a Mary Sue.

Your memory of that show is inaccurate.

Robin never fought Slade evenly. Almost every time he and Slade faced off ended with Robin getting his ass kicked. To say nothing of the numerous times Slade outwitted him. And anyway, Slade does have super powers according to the show's writers. Furthermore, Slade was beaten by Terra, Raven and Beast Boy on separate occasions each, with the former being the one who killed him. TT Robin never did anything as ridiculous as dodging Omega Beams and the show was a lot more willing to treat him as wrong when he was.

You're seriously reaching to try and find some kind of double standard for why Batman gets flack for things other characters don't.

[The tall man]

The Batgod term is so overused, when is the last time in several years anyone can point to a comic and legitimately claim Batgod? As has been said it's now a term for haters to attack Batman anytime he is shown as being competent. No one who read King's run or is currently reading Tynion's run can claim Batgod exist, hell Bruce was practically incompetent and ineffective in King's run. Other characters can have ridiculous showings and people love it, Superman, Wonder Woman people want them to be more powerful, but when it comes to Batman he has to be limited because it's not realistic. Never mind that realistic goes out the window when it comes to other characters doing amazing feats, even other non-powered characters. Look at half the things a non-powered Lex Luthor does, no one says a word. Cass does near super human things and is celebrated for it, Bruce gets castigated. It all boils down to hating on Batman plain and simple. Batman gets as good as he gives in regards to other characters. He is frequently the punching bag of the batfamily so they can look like badasses by telling Bruce off. He's the child abuser, the bad father, he made Gotham worse, the a-hole and of course the jerk. Every thing is Batman's fault and he is the worst character in the DCU, that's the mindset and belief of many, especially on this board. And it frustrates them that he is so popular and the #1 seller. But he has his fans and he's not going anywhere, he will continue to sell and the haters will just have to deal, or not.

[Agent Z]

The purpose of this thread was coming up with in-universe reasons for why Batman became a jerk. How this evolved into people whining about how everyone hates Bruce is a mystery to me.

[Jcady59]

The purpose of this thread was coming up with in-universe reasons for why Batman became a jerk. How this evolved into people whining about how everyone hates Bruce is a mystery to me.

Because the answer to the question the thread asked was given in like the 3rd post the rest of the thread was used as a platform for particular people to bitch about the character.

[SiegePerilous02]

The Batgod whining has been jumped the shark, as you said anytime he does ANYTHING remotely impressive, people will cry Batgod. It's hard to even take the complaints seriously anymore. I'm convinced that if Bruce could open a pickle jar someone else was struggling with that lame insult would rear it's ugly head. I especially find it funny how the JL/U Batman was called that for the things he did, but Robin on the Teen Titans cartoon who was pretty much Batgod Jr. never got labeled with any such nickname.

Teen Titans Robin could fight Slade evenly 1 on 1 even when Slade could beat the other 3 SUPERPOWERED members all by himself. But sure, a teenage boy with no powers is a match for him. Robin could also be a moody jerk on the show but he never gets **** for it. Bruce not acting like Mister Rogers makes him a monster tho.

Also, if Bruce is such a horrible person with so many negative character traits, how the hell is he a Mary Sue? Wouldn't a Mary Sue be someone with no flaws? You could call him one if he acted like Ned Flanders but he doesn't. He has flaws that get brought up by other characters all the damn time. "I don't like this character so I hate when they have impressive feats" isn't the same thing as said character being a Mary Sue.

TT Robin never did anything like outrun Darkseid's Omega Beams, never won against Slade in a straight up fight, and was depicted as being in the wrong or the butt of jokes the same as every other character. The show also had a more OTT cartoonish style and tone that lent itself to him pulling off some crazier stunts and surviving, but even then the competence of the team was well balanced.

At this point, the whining about Batgod "whining" is jumping the shark.

Not really, the Batfamily are always chewing him out and calling him out whenever he does anything wrong. At best he's written as a "jerkass has a point" type, where people will admit he's right about something but still think he's an *******.

And it never leads to any lasting consequences. He'd be written as a villain by this point if DC would actually apply consequences and pull the trigger. It would make far more sense than any other major hero going bad.

Not that I would want that, but I seriously dislike they've brought him to this point to begin with. It's why rebooting the Bat-verse and starting over with a new Bruce without as much baggage has a LOT of appeal to me.

[prepmaster]

Every thing is Batman's fault and he is the worst character in the DCU.

When other heroes get potrayed as villains that Batman has to fight against, people here blame on writers/developers having Batman's favoritism, not because these writers/developers want to tell a controversial story that would sell the most.

[Tzigone]

When other heroes get potrayed as villains that Batman has to fight against, people here blame on writers/developers having Batman's favoritism, not because these writers/developers want to tell a controversial story that would sell the most.

Well the favortism is because Batman sells the most (and a self-feeding cycle because depicting those other characters as so inferior makes them less and less popular). That's why Batman isn't the villain other heroes successfully fight against. He's always better than everyone else - either in morality or in competence (when they are all on the same side and not being controversial), or both. Regardless if it consistent with prior behavior or makes logical sense. They are diminished to make him look more impressive.

[Zaresh]

Yeah, he's privileged, in and out universe. No one can derny it.

But publishers and creatives need to be responsible with the image and messages they're spreading. No matter what the audience wants. It's a hard balance to maintain, but it is necessary to be somewhat responsible. This one is a small matter, but what'd happen if Bruce turns into a racist, macho psychopath who cares for no one or nothing than his own brand of justice because that's the popular take that sells? And with no consequences in universe.

_{I'm sorry if my words are rather hard today. I've had a tough day at work and home, and my words are tinted by it.}

[Gaius]

When other heroes get potrayed as villains that Batman has to fight against, people here blame on writers/developers having Batman's favoritism, not because these writers/developers want to tell a controversial story that would sell the most.

The criticism is that it is rare for it to go other way where Bruce is portrayed as in the wrong and even the times they do, DC will jump through hoops to justify his actions. Look no further than Tower of Babel and how Bruce having contingency torture plans for his friends is an accepted part of his character now or later retcons like Identity Crisis to excuse Bruce's actions. Or how has never been brought to task for stuff like building essentially Skynet that got scores of people killed but Wonder Woman, 15 years later, still gets fingers wagged at her for killing Max Lord in Infinite Crisis.

Miller making Superman a fascist tool for Batman to stand up against in the 80s was controversial. Almost 40 years later and now unequivocally the top dog of DC, making a video game with that as the premise, Batgod pulling a never before seen anti-lasso out of his ass or being able to use lantern rings like their any old tool is not controversial it's just showboating.

[Alan2099]

And it never leads to any lasting consequences. He'd be written as a villain by this point if DC would actually apply consequences and pull the trigger. It would make far more sense than any other major hero going bad.

Hmmm... emotionally traumatized control freak that feels he's always right and that the rules don't apply to him who that sits around in a dark cave plotting how to murder all his friends ...

Nah. I don't see how you can possibly get villain out of that.

[SiegePerilous02]

The criticism is that it is rare for it to go other way where Bruce is portrayed as in the wrong and even the times they do, DC will jump through hoops to justify his actions. Look no further than Tower of Babel and how Bruce having contingency torture plans for his friends is an accepted part of his character now or later retcons like Identity Crisis to excuse Bruce's actions. Or how has never been brought to task for stuff like building essentially Skynet that got scores of people killed but Wonder Woman, 15 years later, still gets fingers wagged at her for killing Max Lord in Infinite Crisis.

Miller making Superman a fascist tool for Batman to stand up against in the 80s was controversial. Almost 40 years later and now unequivocally the top dog of DC, making a video game with that as the premise, Batgod pulling a never before seen anti-lasso out of his ass or being able to use lantern rings like their any old tool is not controversial it's just showboating.

What's funny is that he had some in Alex Ross's Justice and they were used against the League. The League didn't give him a hard time about it because he wasn't a holier than thou douchebag about it. In fact, he showed a lot of humility and apologized and was very wrathful towards the Riddler for making him attack his friends.

What a difference characterization makes.

[The True Detective]

Your memory of that show is inaccurate.

Robin never fought Slade evenly. Almost every time he and Slade faced off ended with Robin getting his ass kicked. To say nothing of the numerous times Slade outwitted him. And anyway, Slade does have super powers according to the show's writers. Furthermore, Slade was beaten by Terra, Raven and Beast Boy on separate occasions each, with the former being the one who killed him. TT Robin never did anything as ridiculous as dodging Omega Beams and the show was a lot more willing to treat him as wrong when he was.

Your seriously reaching to try and find some kind of double standard for why Batman gets flack for things other characters don't.

Ok I was wrong, I guess I had some sort of Mandela Effect where I thought Robin fought Spade evenly, but I don't have to reach to prove there are double standards. If there wasn't a double standard why wasn't there an outcry in how strong Captain America was made to look in Infinity War?

Cap, somehow, was able to stop Thanos' punch, Thanos even had a strained look on his face as if Cap was too strong for him. He also survived a direct him from him. MCU Cap being moderately superhuman wouldn't explain how he could survive a hit from someone as strong as Thanos. The very same Thanos who earlier in the movie was whooping Hulk and Thor like it was nothing. There aren't threads crying about how CapGod made Hulk and Thor look weak like there would be if Darkseid easily destroyed Superman and Wonder Woman but had a minor struggle with Batman.

Cap does that in a $2B grossing movie to little annoyance from comic book fans, Bruce dodges Darkseid's Omega Effect on a cartoon and here we are 15 years later and it's still being brought up. You can't tell me if Batman blocked a punch from Darkseid and tanked a hit from him this place wouldn't throw a fit.

[Agent Z]

Ok I was wrong, I guess I had some sort of Mandela Effect where I thought Robin fought Spade evenly, but I don't have to reach to prove there are double standards. If there wasn't a double standard why wasn't there an outcry in how strong Captain America was made to look in Infinity War?

Cap, somehow, was able to stop Thanos' punch, Thanos even had a strained look on his face as if Cap was too strong for him. He also survived a direct him from him. MCU Cap being moderately superhuman wouldn't explain how he could survive a hit from someone as strong as Thanos. The very same Thanos who earlier in the movie was whooping Hulk and Thor like it was nothing. There aren't threads crying about how CapGod made Hulk and Thor look weak like there would be if Darkseid easily destroyed Superman and Wonder Woman but had a minor struggle with Batman.

Cap does that in a $2B grossing movie to little annoyance from comic book fans, Bruce dodges Darkseid's Omega Effect on a cartoon and here we are 15 years later and it's still being brought up. You can't tell me if Batman blocked a punch from Darkseid and tanked a hit from him this place wouldn't throw a fit.

A super powered Steve Rogers barely surviving a fight with Thanos (a fight he didn't win mind you) is not remotely the same as a human Batman dodging Omega Beams, something that is outright stated in-universe to have never been done by anyone else prior.

Also, here's the fight with Steve in question.



@2:52. At most, Thanos is mildly suprised that Steve could block his punch while Steve is the one showing strain and effort.

If that's your proof of a double standard, it's unconvincing.

[The True Detective]

A super powered Steve Rogers barely surviving a fight with Thanos (a fight he didn't win mind you) is not remotely the same as a human Batman dodging Omega Beams, something that is outright stated in-universe to have never been done by anyone else prior.

Also, here's the fight with Steve in question.



@2:52. At most, Thanos is mildly suprised that Steve could block his punch while Steve is the one showing strain and effort.

If that's your proof of a double standard, it's unconvincing.

Lol he's a low tier superpowered man, I repeat Thanos wrecked Hulk and Thor earlier. Are you telling me Cap is anywhere close to those 2 in terms of strength? He looked like he was straining to me, he was reaching towards Cap, Cap was putting up a resistance and Thanos furrowed his brow because he had to put effort into it. He shouldn't have to use any effort whatsoever to reach over and punch him, Cap's an ant to him that scene's up there with the most ridiculous Batgod moments. Btw you haven't acknowledged the other part where Thanos full on punches Cap who manages to survive.

I get it you hate Batman, and want to bury your head in the sand when other characters do things you'll get angry at him doing but come on, there's no way you can seriously defend that Infinity War scene. Why would Thanos have to strain and struggle for a mildly superhuman guy when he didn't AT ALL for a God of Thunder and giant rage monster with near limitless strength.