What's Your Headcanon For Why Batman Turned Into A Jerk In The '00s?

[Agent Z]

On this board? The very same board where Bruce can't even win a popularity contest against his own sidekicks?

These contests are often pretty close in Bruce's favor and there is a difference between him being outright hated.

I won't deny that there are Bruce fans who hate the Batfamily and wish they were either gone or significantly lowered but they're a vocal minority. The average poster on this forum either flat out despises Bruce or tolerates him and strongly prefers his family, even when he isn't being a dick. At this point most posters here just don't like the character anymore, you could make him act like Adam West's version from here on out and the Batfamily would still be more liked around these parts.

I have seen no less than six threads on this board calling for the Batfamily to be reduced. The only time people here are complaining about Bruce is when he's acting like a jerk.

This thread which is yet another negative thread about him has way more posts than Bruce's very own respect thread which, surprise, surprise also has a lot less views than the other Bat characters respect threads.

The comments in this thread are about trying to come up with an explanation for why Bruce has become such a jackass over the years. People aren't just bashing him for the sake of it.

I mean, I could say that Alfred is the one being hated on here since one or two posters have blamed him for how Bruce turned out.

[SiegePerilous02]

There is definitely a mix of Bruce acting like a prick to the Bat-Family because writers like to write him that way at the expense of the Family, or they write him that way as a source of angst to any particular family member or an opportunity to stand up to him/show him up to boost them. In the latter case, it is done for the story purposes of the character in question and not Bruce and frequently happens in their book, not his. That being said, fans of Dick, Jason, Babs, Cass, etc aren't exactly clamoring for this either. I imagine a lot of them just begrudgingly deal with it if they are otherwise enjoying that character's book (pretty much how I approach Wonder Woman: the Hikiteia).

I agree with other posters that the influx of Bat-Family and Bruce being a douche is mostly coincidence, not causation. The Bat-Family just exploded around the time they started to cement Bruce's personality as being awful, not helped in particular by Chuck Dixon who pretty much wrote everybody in the Family and established the popular dynamics. This is why I personally don't care for the extended Bat-Family because I don't really have an example of it existing with a Batman I can like, and I chiefly read this for Batman himself. Morrison was the main writer who could sell the massive network of allies with a Batman who skewed closer to his pre-COIE personality, and sometimes Dini as well. But then we had Snyder come on board with Bruce punching out Dick's tooth or breaking Harper Row's nose after Damian's death, and all good will got sapped.

[babyblob]

The thing is as much as many of us hate Batjerk/Batgod there is always a thread going on about the current issues that we have bought and read. I still buy batman and Detective issues. So as much as we seem to hate it we seem to still support it. I know some have dropped the books but there are still a good number who buy them. So whose fault is it really that Batgod/Batjerk has stuck around so long?

[SiegePerilous02]

The thing is as much as many of us hate Batjerk/Batgod there is always a thread going on about the current issues that we have bought and read. I still buy batman and Detective issues. So as much as we seem to hate it we seem to still support it. I know some have dropped the books but there are still a good number who buy them. So whose fault is it really that Batgod/Batjerk has stuck around so long?

This is exactly why I find it to distressing.

Clearly the majority aren't phased by this anymore. If it bothers them, it's seemingly not enough to prevent them from giving DC money, and since Batman's the most reliable seller, DC just keeps it going like this and shoving Batman into everything else. Which wouldn't be nearly as bothersome if it was a Silver/Bronze age style Batman who wasn't a jerk to other heroes.

[The True Detective]

These contests are often pretty close in Bruce's favor and there is a difference between him being outright hated.



I have seen no less than six threads on this board calling for the Batfamily to be reduced. The only time people here are complaining about Bruce is when he's acting like a jerk.



The comments in this thread are about trying to come up with an explanation for why Bruce has become such a jackass over the years. People aren't just bashing him for the sake of it.

I mean, I could say that Alfred is the one being hated on here since one or two posters have blamed him for how Bruce turned out.

The latest poll isn't close at all, Dick's leading with 81 votes to Bruce's 60. Bruce is closer in votes to the 3rd place Damian who has 53. Even if he isn't outright hated like you claim, which I disagree with, it shows he's still not the most liked character of his own franchise, at least on this forum. If you were an outside observer and knew nothing about comics and read this forum you'd think Dick was easily the most popular Bat character.

People complain about him for way more than just the times he's a jerk. They complain he's overexposed, boring, overrated, too dark, makes other characters look weak, makes other characters look stupid, exists, etc. Regular complaints about his usefulness on the JL, meanwhile his also not superpowered Family members can join a team with superhumans to zero issue.

When's the last time you saw anyone ask what Dick brings to the Titans? Because I see people ask what "a guy in a bat costume" brings to the table on a team with Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash and company. Or how him being on the team is unrealistic and he at the most works best off field helping the team through comms. No one ever asks what the hell Dick or any of the other Batfamily members can contribute fighting alongside powerhouses like Starfire or Raven. Those complaints are chiefly reserved for Bruce.

[Astralabius]

The latest poll isn't close at all, Dick's leading with 81 votes to Bruce's 60. Bruce is closer in votes to the 3rd place Damian who has 53. Even if he isn't outright hated like you claim, which I disagree with, it shows he's still not the most liked character of his own franchise, at least on this forum. If you were an outside observer and knew nothing about comics and read this forum you'd think Dick was easily the most popular Bat character.

People complain about him for way more than just the times he's a jerk. They complain he's overexposed, boring, overrated, too dark, makes other characters look weak, makes other characters look stupid, exists, etc. Regular complaints about his usefulness on the JL, meanwhile his also not superpowered Family members can join a team with superhumans to zero issue.

When's the last time you saw anyone ask what Dick brings to the Titans? Because I see people ask what "a guy in a bat costume" brings to the table on a team with Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash and company. Or how him being on the team is unrealistic and he at the most works best off field helping the team through comms. No one ever asks what the hell Dick or any of the other Batfamily members can contribute fighting alongside powerhouses like Starfire or Raven. Those complaints are chiefly reserved for Bruce.

The Titans are friends, the Justice League not necessarily. That's a huge difference. I'm not deciding who is in my group of friends based on their usefulness.
But if we want to talk about what Dick contributes to teams then it's that he's usually the one bringing people together.
And of course people complain more about Batman than about other characters. It's only natural if there is so much content for him. There is a lot more to complain about.

[Jewel Runner]

The Justice League or at least should be when properly written, just as Batman and Superman despite their differences have been close as brothers before.

[The True Detective]

The Titans are friends, the Justice League not necessarily. That's a huge difference. I'm not deciding who is in my group of friends based on their usefulness.
But if we want to talk about what Dick contributes to teams then it's that he's usually the one bringing people together.
And of course people complain more about Batman than about other characters. It's only natural if there is so much content for him. There is a lot more to complain about.

Bringing people together doesn't mean he has to be in the field with the other characters who actually have powers fighting similarly superpowered threats. A coach recruits players without actually playing themselves. Btw, I'm not saying I personally think Dick shouldn't be on the Titans, just that people should keep the same energy they have for Bruce, for his kids. If Bruce fighting metahumans is unrealstic and he should be off field helping in other ways, you can say the same thing about the other Batfamily members.

Alfred's a valuable member of the family but he helps in other, non combat ways, so the Titans being a family doesn't mean Dick automatically should be used in fights. If I have to hear that Bruce can use his detective skills, tactical mind and resources to help the JL, it's only fair we bring up that Dick (or any other Batfamily member) can contribute to their teams in the same way.

The amount of content he has doesn't explain all the hate he gets, Spider-Man appears in a similar amount of stuff and gets a lot less hate on this forum.

[SiegePerilous02]

Spider-Man gets less hate because he's less of an asshole. Like I said, if Bruce was like his Bronze Age self or something and not showing up other heroes or being a douche, his getting shoved into a lot of things wouldn't be as bad.

Marvel is also better at spreading the love around to their various IPs, at least in comparison to DC/WB are since they only consistently invest in Batman. Batman is already being teased as making an appearance in the next Superman run, which pisses off Superman fans because it's not as if there aren't already a lot of Batman books and Superman characters not getting page space.

[Agent Z]

Also, Batman is not the only non-powered hero whose usefulness is questioned. Green Arrow, Roy Harper, Ted Kord and Punisher just to name a few have been subject to this as well. Ted Kord in particular was treated as a joke character by writers for decades up until his death.

[Gaius]

I don’t read Spider-Man or much Marvel but just going off general knowledge of there doesn’t seem to be a sub-genre of Marvel comics stories/media that could essentially be called “Spider-Man is a better hero than your favorite, deal with it loser” like there is with DC and Batman.

[SiegePerilous02]

Also, Batman is not the only non-powered hero whose usefulness is questioned. Green Arrow, Roy Harper, Ted Kord and Punisher just to name a few have been subject to this as well. Ted Kord in particular was treated as a joke character by writers for decades up until his death.

Exactly. And it's not as if Batman couldn't pull his weight on the JL in a lot of older stories without showing up everyone else. Oddly, the early Silver Age Justice League comics were very good about giving everyone something to do even if the writing in general was less sophisticated. Something like Justice was also very good at it.

As for the comparison with Nightwing and the Titans, barring any times Trigon shows up, the classic villains the Titans deal with are much lower on the totem pole than the threats the JL face, so Nightwing being in the field isn't that distracting. Wally was written off the team because he was deemed too powerful for the book.

I don’t read Spider-Man or much Marvel but just going off general knowledge of there doesn’t seem to be a sub-genre of Marvel comics stories/media that could essentially be called “Spider-Man is a better hero than your favorite, deal with it loser” like there is with DC and Batman.

Yes, Spider-Man is the plucky underdog of the MU, whereas Batman is top dog now to the point where even f***ing Superman is kind of the underdog compared to him. The big Death Metal event that was supposedly based around Wonder Woman didn't use any of her stuff, but focused on Batman stuff.

And I LOVE Batman. I always have and always will. But there is such a thing as too much of a good thing, and we've crossed that threshold a while ago. He is one of their best creations, but not the point where it has to be as skewed in his favor as it often is. Before the first Wonder Woman film came out, WB hadn't been directly responsible for a clear audience and critical hit CBM that wasn't related to Batman in some way. They only distributed the Donner Superman films, they didn't produce them, and Wonder Woman was a happy accident that was one Jenkins and not them. The entire catalogue of characters would probably be better off in the hands of someone else since WB doesn't really know how to deal with any of them except one guy.

[Frontier]

I don’t read Spider-Man or much Marvel but just going off general knowledge of there doesn’t seem to be a sub-genre of Marvel comics stories/media that could essentially be called “Spider-Man is a better hero than your favorite, deal with it loser” like there is with DC and Batman.

If anything it's the opposite where Spider-Man ends up being treated as lesser than compared to everybody else despite how much he does and has to put up with.

[TheCape]

The latest poll isn't close at all, Dick's leading with 81 votes to Bruce's 60. Bruce is closer in votes to the 3rd place Damian who has 53. Even if he isn't outright hated like you claim, which I disagree with, it shows he's still not the most liked character of his own franchise, at least on this forum. If you were an outside observer and knew nothing about comics and read this forum you'd think Dick was easily the most popular Bat character.

People complain about him for way more than just the times he's a jerk. They complain he's overexposed, boring, overrated, too dark, makes other characters look weak, makes other characters look stupid, exists, etc. Regular complaints about his usefulness on the JL, meanwhile his also not superpowered Family members can join a team with superhumans to zero issue.

When's the last time you saw anyone ask what Dick brings to the Titans? Because I see people ask what "a guy in a bat costume" brings to the table on a team with Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash and company. Or how him being on the team is unrealistic and he at the most works best off field helping the team through comms. No one ever asks what the hell Dick or any of the other Batfamily members can contribute fighting alongside powerhouses like Starfire or Raven. Those complaints are chiefly reserved for Bruce.

To be honest,i had seen a lot of people complaining about the Titan show, for essentially being the Batfamily show instead of well the Titans.

[Sacred Knight]

CTE. /10char