Mighty Avengers #13 discussion/spoilers

[Tiamatty]

No that is Larroca's style, it use to be good but it's been downhill for some time now where it's duck face or someone is always yelling. He did three to four pages in NA and somehow manged to turn in terrible work, there's no way you can call land a hack and then be ok with Larroca and still think you'll be taken seriously

Larroca's not one of my favourites. But unlike Land, he's capable of showing a wide range of emotions and expressions. Land just grabs Male Grin and slaps it on the page, then puts Female Sultry Smile next to it. And then if he needs a woman to look concerned, he'll recycle Female Sultry Smile and maybe change her eyebrows ever-so-slightly.

Greg Land is a hack. Larroca may have gone downhill, but he's still vastly less annoying than Land tracing the same damned photos all the time.

[Rochedalaix]

This is my favorite Avengers book despite the art!!! I can forgive bad art, but not bad writing so this book is golden, as the art despite what the haters say isn't bad.

[Kieran_Frost]

This looks EPIC!!! Can't wait to get it next Thursday!

So bravo for him for not tanking the sales on the books he works on, but I, for one, will be happy if I never have to buy another thing he works on ever again for as long as I live.

Preach it!

But I get it: the problem with having a hero that powerful is that most fights would end before they even started with him around. And if killing was on the table, there probably wouldn't be many villains left in the world.

Hence Sentry's "issues" (though Bendis in Dark Avengers just gave us villains powerful enough to take him out, at-least for a bit - Morgan le Fay, Molecule Man). But would fans want most fights to start with BM taken off the map?

[ref. Larroca] anyone who says this is a step up from Land has lost all credible right to call Greg Land's art style anything in a negative way

[the4thpip]

The art was pretty lacking, it looked rushed. The colors especially were really dull.

I was just grateful it wasn't Land, but Schiti would have been better.

[the4thpip]

Land has been gone for at least three months now.

I notice sales haven't shot up in response. Just like when he left Iron Man.

No "Now I can buy the book again because that lousy guy is gone, yay!" sales spike there either.

Dudes wouldn't stop complaining about Land, but where is the objective proof that he hurts sales?
There isn't any.

What dudes wail about online doesn't equal commercial success or failure.

Land hasnt commercially hurt any book so far despite all the fuss.

a) you are misnformed on Land being gone for at least three months. He drew up until the previous issue, with the exception of the Schiti fill-in arc
b) you are also misinformed about the absence of sales patterns indicating Land's art hurt sales. Look at the jump in sales for the first issue of the recent Iron Man volume that was NOT drawn by Land:

11/12 Iron Man v6 #1 - 116,529 (+215.1%)
11/12 Iron Man v6 #2 - 72,902 ( -37.4%)
12/12 Iron Man v6 #3 - 59,041 ( -19.0%)
12/12 Iron Man v6 #4 - 56,708 ( -4.0%)
01/13 Iron Man v6 #5 - 50,899 ( -10.2%)
02/13 Iron Man v6 #6 - 46,206 ( -9.2%)
03/13 Iron Man v6 #7 - 44,040 ( -4.7%)
04/13 Iron Man v6 #8 - 43,974 ( -0.1%)
05/13 Iron Man v6 #9 - 78,006 ( +77.4%)

Issues one to 8 had art assembled by Land, #9 was penciled by Dale Eaglesham. Sadly, Land returned later and sales never recovered.

[the4thpip]

Anyway, really enjoyed this issue.
Just think it's a missed opportunity not to use Marvel's previously established group of mythical elementals with different cultural backgrounds. Bit odd to have two of those groups.

[Kieran_Frost]

Just think it's a missed opportunity not to use Marvel's previously established group of mythical elementals with different cultural backgrounds. Bit odd to have two of those groups.

I really, REALLY want a mystical Avengers book. There is so much potential...

[SilverZeal]

Sales didn't go up on MA or Iron Man after his returns, either. MA's seen a boost from Original Sin, but that's standard. Even if Land doesn't hurt the books commercially, he doesn't help them commercially, either. And he does hurt them artistically. He's a hack with static art and a horribly limited range of expressions. He's one of the worst visual storytellers in the business.

So bravo for him for not tanking the sales on the books he works on, but I, for one, will be happy if I never have to buy another thing he works on ever again for as long as I live.

We/SZ wud prefer sum face expressions with gr8 art any day over lots of face expressions/contortions with horrific art.

Nothing against Larroca but he aint as gd as Land despite Larroca's art nt being terrible in itself.

I can't believe I'm saying this but Blue Marvel is growing on me

Glad 2 here it!

Its dat Eeeee-wiiiiiiiiiiii-ng magic. Hehehe!

[Trident]

I keep reading that, but I don't see so many plots hanging here.
There is the Deathwalkers things, which is about to get resolved.
Then there is the Gideon Mace/Cortex plot.
And... isn't that all?

There are a few plots going on that as of right now seem like they don't have much to do with each other. The title has been running over a year now and there are three or four story lines going on that makes the title seem messy and at times convoluted.

As you mentioned the Deathwalkers was a plot that stated in issue 2, then you have introduction of Cortex a plot of it's own which started in issue #4 and hasn't been brought up or mentioned since #5, then there is Luke's plot of building the Mighty hotline which is progressive through out the whole run but is getting little shine on how it is going, the Gideon Mace plot which again had nothing to do with the plots in #2 or #4 as of right now, and when you throw in the sub/minor ongoing plots of Ava's Cat god and Blue Marvel's Son you have a lot of things seemingly floating out there that have not been connected. Most of which the writer tried to present as of importance but it losses said importance due to other plots being added without any further exposition of the previous plot lines.

Ewing is great at presenting the characters, even is great at the story telling part, but so far his build up and execution is not there. It sorta like watching a windup pitch only for the pitcher not letting the ball go.

[robreedwrites]

a) you are misnformed on Land being gone for at least three months. He drew up until the previous issue, with the exception of the Schiti fill-in arc
b) you are also misinformed about the absence of sales patterns indicating Land's art hurt sales. Look at the jump in sales for the first issue of the recent Iron Man volume that was NOT drawn by Land:


Issues one to 8 had art assembled by Land, #9 was penciled by Dale Eaglesham. Sadly, Land returned later and sales never recovered.

That wasn't really the reason for the sales hike though. Issue #9 was the first issue of the "Secret Origin of Tony Stark" and had him as a baby on the cover.

[SilverZeal]

Oddly enough, I find myself going the other direction. It's not BM, but the forced limitations that are making him more and more like Supes.

He doesn't kill? Seriously? Come on! BM is a veteran of at least one war that we know. He has taken a life on behalf of country and to protect others. So when Kaluu says, "Hey, stop the Deathwalkers or the entire world dies!" I would expect a little more creativity on BM's part than simply, "I don't kill." With his power set and genius intellect there should have been a bazillion things that he could have done short of actually taking a life to stop the were-beasts. These creatures hate the light, so a timely, well-placed gamma ray photon pulse would have done the job nicely.

But I get it: the problem with having a hero that powerful is that most fights would end before they even started with him around. And if killing was on the table, there probably wouldn't be many villains left in the world.

Well, except maybe for the villains who can take it. The jury is still out on Deathwalker Prime. Hopefully, it's as big and bad as they say it is.

We/SZ felt d same way bcuz we/SZ expectd d DW's 2 master users of d elements lyk d master benders frm Avatar but frm wat we'v seens its as if dey r nwbies with their abilities except drinking blud & mking "ani-men".

Dis issue wud hv workd faaar betta if BM had 2 attend 2 anothr world-ending crisis elsewhr after all he's earth's "global protector" so it wudnt hv bn unfathomable 2 hv BM fly off only 2 retrn as DW Prime is born.

It wud hv provided alot of mo lee-way 4 credibility of d MIGHTY Avngrs fyting simple were-beings.

Hell Shulk, PM II & WT wud hv sufficed in dat scramble.

D were-beasts/ani-men wud hv felt faaar much more 4midable if dey were more dan simple conjoind beasts. Mr.E did dis brilliantly with d fire-breathing roaster-headed ani-men who fawt Blade...it wud hv bn supa-gr8 2 hv seen sum of dat in dis issue.

Prhps wingd flying- earthbending werewolves or size altering-water bending ninja were-snakes or acid shooting- fireformed- firebending multi-tailed were-scorpions or invincible-airbending-were-rhinoceroses or a combination of all those against d entire team. We/SZ were sooo impressed with Ewing's cre8v were-beasts/ani-men of earlier issues dat it had us/SZ specul8ing 4 mo.

D ani-men in dis issue felt sooo cheap compared 2 wat we/SZ saw in earlier issues.

DWP has betta b a really REALLY 4midble thr8.

Hving said all d abv #13 was NOT bad...it just wasnt as gr8 as we/SZ were expecting.

Regrding BM's aversion 2 killing:

1stly, Despite BM's bakground as a highly awarded soldier, we/SZ blv d reason/s 4 BM's "no killing" note may lie in his mysterious history after all der is still alot 2 we/readr dont know abt BM. 40 yrs is a VERY long tym, alot of stuff may hv happnd dat md BM wat he is now.

2ndly, BM has gone thru alot of loss in his life frm his 1st best buddy who turned evil & l8r BM had 2 kill him 2 save d world 2 d death of his wife 2 his closest friend/mentor Uatu 2 his son/Kevin (OK he aint dead but BM is still undergoing d pain of losing him) 2 his other son/Max who has also gone evil.

3rdly, BM believes in 2nd chances which is y he retrnd as BM...we/SZ suggest u re-read BM's last words 2 Anti-man in d last issue of BM's mini.

We/SZ r nt saying dat BM shd nvr kill after all BM knows exactly wat tking a life is being an experience soldier but he shd only tk a life whn its d cmplete, total & absolute very last option he has whn all othr alternativs hv faild.

[Vic Vega]

That wasn't really the reason for the sales hike though. Issue #9 was the first issue of the "Secret Origin of Tony Stark" and had him as a baby on the cover.

Thanks for explaining that so I didn't have to.

[SilverZeal]

Or Monica could have used her radio wave abilities to warp the sound field so that the Deathwalkers could not, in effect, audibilize their spell. For that matter, I suppose BM could have also did the same thing by enclosing one or more of the Deathwalkers in a soundproof force field. ha ha

Kool suggestns der, JP!

In the end I guess we just have to accept that Deathwalker Prime was meant to form. For all we know, Kaluu may have secretly wanted that to happen, now that he clearly has enough power on his side with She-Hulk, White Tiger, Power Man and others to defeat the DWs once and for all.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I think this would have been a great fight for Spider-Man. He always has a knack of getting close to the big bad guy.

Yeah, we/SZ agree.

Characters with the Superman powerset on earth bound team settings are going to be watered down... that's just a given. Even by GOOD writers. You can argue that shouldn't happen, but it will. Readers are just going to have to get used to that... Superman readers have had to live with it for decades.

But I'm sure the Death Walker thing will be a fairly massive big bad.

Gr8 Loas, we/SZ seriously HOPE so.

We/SZ r expectin' sum supa-serious elements mega-bending thrown against d MA nxt issue.

You're not going to build up this much story just to have BM punch the thing out.

Agrd...but dis DWP had betta b convincingly really REALLY supa-effin'-pwrful

[Tracks]

There are a few plots going on that as of right now seem like they don't have much to do with each other. The title has been running over a year now and there are three or four story lines going on that makes the title seem messy and at times convoluted.

As you mentioned the Deathwalkers was a plot that stated in issue 2, then you have introduction of Cortex a plot of it's own which started in issue #4 and hasn't been brought up or mentioned since #5, then there is Luke's plot of building the Mighty hotline which is progressive through out the whole run but is getting little shine on how it is going, the Gideon Mace plot which again had nothing to do with the plots in #2 or #4 as of right now, and when you throw in the sub/minor ongoing plots of Ava's Cat god and Blue Marvel's Son you have a lot of things seemingly floating out there that have not been connected. Most of which the writer tried to present as of importance but it losses said importance due to other plots being added without any further exposition of the previous plot lines.

Ewing is great at presenting the characters, even is great at the story telling part, but so far his build up and execution is not there. It sorta like watching a windup pitch only for the pitcher not letting the ball go.

Gideon mace is a part of the cortex plot. Avas god is resolved. The mighty hotline is resolved...thats how the old mighty avengers contacted the new ones. Thats why there was the commercial. So there's pretty much just blue marvels son and cortex.

[SilverZeal]

There are a few plots going on that as of right now seem like they don't have much to do with each other. The title has been running over a year now and there are three or four story lines going on that makes the title seem messy and at times convoluted.

As you mentioned the Deathwalkers was a plot that stated in issue 2, then you have introduction of Cortex a plot of it's own which started in issue #4 and hasn't been brought up or mentioned since #5, then there is Luke's plot of building the Mighty hotline which is progressive through out the whole run but is getting little shine on how it is going, the Gideon Mace plot which again had nothing to do with the plots in #2 or #4 as of right now, and when you throw in the sub/minor ongoing plots of Ava's Cat god and Blue Marvel's Son you have a lot of things seemingly floating out there that have not been connected. Most of which the writer tried to present as of importance but it losses said importance due to other plots being added without any further exposition of the previous plot lines.

Ewing is great at presenting the characters, even is great at the story telling part, but so far his build up and execution is not there. It sorta like watching a windup pitch only for the pitcher not letting the ball go.

Well so far der major plots r just 3...d hotline, Cortex.Inc & Deathwalkers while d othrs r more lyk sub-plots dat hv bn partly resolved but Ewing may reolve deem kronologically 2 when each plot startd 4 instance d DW's plot is probably concluding nxt issue & den Cortex.Inc gets full attentn.

Hwvr, we/SZ hv bn very plz with Mr.E shwing dat MA r actually human beings nt a bunch of supahero automatons whr we/readrs will hv 2 b pounded on d head in every panel on every page in every issue of just plot, plot, death, fyting, plot, mo fyting & mo death, etc. Its nice 2 c d team chill & get a breather, discuss, share advice, pasts & get 2 know each othr betta ...or mk grudges(hehehe!), mk jokes, do pranks, indulge in their individual & personal problems or vendetta away frm supa-heroix, etc

Ryt now, we/SZ cant waaait 2 c wat Ewing does Monica, Cortex. Inc & with BM's story as "global protector" & regrding him being d caretaker of 616 Watcher/Uatu's family as well as d cosmic plotlines dat can involve d entire team.