Scott and Jean Appreciation Thread 2021

[Hizashi]

Sure, no problem.

The only outcome I can think of that I'd be okay with would be if Ben decided he had to get more people on record and really put his all into this piece. But that would take more time than Orchis is willing to wait and they find another journalist who doesn't have Ben's integrity and who would be willing to run the story instead.

But like you said... let's wait and see.

Seems to me in that case that Orchis is actually counting on Ben's investigative skills and integrity to give credibility to the story and even if he decides not to publish anything due to lack of sources/evidence, he could be a potential source of information.

[Lucyinthesky]

And you got it! :P

Careful with what you wishÂ…

Agreed

It was the drama that really bothered me about it.

Scott united 200 mutants (and not even all of them) who were at the brink of “extinction”, Mags. Chill it, hon, it's not *that* impressive. :P

Agreed they joined mostly because it was better to be together than alone and be taken out one by one but I think Scott got credit because he unsedtood the need so truly all mutants were on Utopia even some of their former enemies but at no point it looked like an actual building of a nation because there were not enough people left for that, it was more like a last stand/Sanctuary for them.

I totally agree, Lucy. Mags is driven because he has a goal. He doesn’t love power for power. But… he builds thrones for himself. Scott had an office.

I was talking about that difference. I was not trying to reduce Erik to a power-junkie.

The throne thing was mostly an artist choice for covers or when they wanted to do a an impactful ending like on X-men Blue, in reality when he was on Asteroid M or Genosha, or the School he used just chairs or offices, it was just after he was in a coma that Exodus used to put him on a throne like chair that in reality was a bed with tubes to keep him alive because he was comatose. So I see it more an artistic choice than an actual characteristic.
In Genosha he showed that as leader he´s very hands on, he involves himself in the everyday activities, from rebuilding to fight in the front lines, because Genosha still was on a civil war since the bloodties crossover, which he could not acomplish leading from a throne.

Even though I hadn’t meant he loves power for power, what you said made me consider something: do you think it’s possible that sub-consciously he understands that his relationship with enjoying the power and the adoration gets in the way of his actual goals and, therefore, he actually *prefers* when heÂ’s not the one leading because then he can focus on the actual goal and be more productive?

I think that would explain why he builds thrones for himself but at the same time he, indeed, doesnÂ’t seem to mind when someone else is leading whatever cause he’s dedicating himself to.

I think he can be equaly productive in both ways but he is more happy and relaxed when the leadership doesn´t fall on him alone, with the brotherhood he was a dragon to the team, he was on his might makes right pov and still quite unstable because of his powers, after this he worked mostly alone, with just a few sympatizers around the world who helped him, then he was headmaster of the school and he tried to work his idea of what Charles would do which didn´t quite work and then he became a lord of the hellfire club under storm orders, because they wanted to gain intel from this organization but this brouht suspicions to him from the new mutants, who saw this as him leaving them or betraying the X-men, with the Acolytes he let them do as they pleased as long as they didn´t cause trouble for themselves on earth, in fact they had to convice him to be their leader again because he had tried to stay away from mutant affairs after leaving the school and fighting Zaladane but they still often did under Cortez leadership or others and he often had to take them out of trouble, which was the reason why he fought the X-men again, especially previous to fatal attractions, on Genosha he was both the dragon who scared away the world so mutants could stop being slaves there and the leader for mutants but he sacrificed all his family links and previous friendships for this goal and that role.

So in those instances, I thought he looked more happy when he knew he had others to relly on for leadership like in the case of the school with Storm, Excalibur, Krakoa or Utopia, like when he was headmaster, because he mostly prefers to do things by himself and as a leader of a nation, he can coordinate efforts from afar but when it comes to fighting, he still tries to do most of the fighting himself but when he has allies he allows himself some time to interact, have friendships, even lovers, while still supporting the main leadership. So I would say he´s very productive in general but he´s happier when he has people around him, he can trust.

I’m not so sure if that’s the case, Lucy. ItÂ’s not like Storm ever walked away from the dream when she worked with Mags. I think itÂ’s more a matter of perception from his part, you know?

I didn´t meant that Storm had to walk away from the team to sympatize with Magneto, she can and did both, she fought for coexistence because she believed it was truly the best path forward but also sympatized and liked Magneto´s perspective because them both knew and understood how hard things can be for people in the world they lived, mostly because of their experiences and I think Erik appreciated this and respected her a lot for this reason, which Storm also answered by giving him more than one chance and even going to war with the Avengers to keep him with the X-men. She didn´t need to leave and join him for him to appreciate her as a friend and ally and viceversa.

My point is that this is what makes Magneto´s friendship with her different to the one he had with Charles, because with him it was always, my dream or your dream while with Storm is more like, lest just built something good together for mutants and mutants but she also understood they had very different povs and she sometimes had to fight him and he as well but their fights didn´t felt like a competence of who was right, more like, it´s such a shame we can´t work together.

Scott is certainly a man of actions, not words. But I think he can be inspiring by words too, but through his logic and reliability.
While Cap hits you on your “feels”. And he’s extremely good at that. He truly believes in you and it makes you believe in yourself too.

Agreed :P

Yep. I relate to him so much, you have no idea. People often think IÂ’m unaffected when IÂ’m the most affected person in the room. Something takes me over and I keep it together so we can solve the issue and then I can go shake like a little blade of grass against a hurricane.
Scott is my spirit animal. ItÂ’s not even funny.

I someties are like this too and while not always the best for emotional health it does help to get things done, so I admire people that manage this in a way that helps them do their work better :P

Yep. I think Mags has an aura of power that speaks for itself, whether he likes it or not. That's something that's very inspiring and it's not something that either Cap or Cyke have.

Agreed for good or bad he´s inspiring for a lot of mutants and even he can´t quite control the way this inspiration will take form and this can always not be such a good thing but yes, he´s definitely inspiring.

Let me rephrase: I donÂ’t think Mags would be comfortable with people dying for him or Scott.
(I see Mags as ruthless, but not cruel or incapable of empathy.)
But I think he admires the level of loyalty it entails. ThatÂ’s what I meant. Does it make sense?

Yes it does and yes he´s ruthless but I felt the need to explain why this particular aspect is truly a source of trauma for him, because it´s like reviving the events of WWII or Genosha, it´s remembering him, that despire his power he can´t keep the people he loves and he wants to protect safe or happy and it´s a big source of emotional pain for him and it´s quite ironic because the very first thing the Acolytes did for him was dying to keep him alive while he´s like "Stop doing that" I do that for you, you don´t do that for" etc :P so I don´t think he particulary admires this in Scott, I think he would call it loyalty, not being ready to die for him.

Good conversations are a rare commodity nowadays. I value it a lot.

Indeed I truly enjoy reading your answes :P

[Lucyinthesky]

And Jean was there when Kitty brought Piotr to Krakoa!!!
Then, Domino herself goes through some ridiculous trauma and Jean doesnÂ’t check on her even though she’s on her team!!!

Exactly, like Jean is supposed to be their friend, what happened to that? Is one of the reasons that I disliked Percy take on her, not because she was not badass, she was but because she seemed to only interact with Wolvie and she didn´t look like she had friends on the team besides him and that´s just not true and she would have been so mad at Beast for charging Colossus with treason with no enough evidence. So yes, I didn´t like this at all.

I hated that. I’ve seen Jean’s tough love many times and it doesn’t sound like that. I’m talking about Uncanny X-Men #19, by the way.

I think the circunstances called for it imo, because at this point Scott was too far gone and had just killed Charles so he really needed that call out awakening to take him out of that trance imo.

Is Mags sending that Krakoa tea to you too? You need intervention, dear. ASAP!
Come to my house and bring Scott with you and weÂ’ll get you both clean and miserable again! :P

Lol But I enjoy being happy, :P, he isn´t sending me anything, I told him I had to be focused but he insists on taking it for himself and Scott lol but I would love to be over to your house with Scott and try to get back to reality again. :P

Yeah. And this is stupid, because you want to keep your loyal readers while adding new ones. ItÂ’s like they donÂ’t really understand how money worksÂ…

I think they do understand money, what they don´t get is that more money can be made from keeping your readers engaged on the story than in shock and awe but void stories, that said, given the status of the market and how short stories are becoming as a result, I don´t exactly blame them for going for this option.

They only didnÂ’t have powers for the first scenes, actually. But I loved seeing them raising Nathan and still being ridiculously in love throughout the years, of course!

Me too, I even loved their story when they finally came back to their own time.

We had never really seen both of them sharing the leadership of a group, though, and IÂ’d love to see it done better. So far, X-Men has been a bit disappointing in this sense too. Then again, how could it not when those characters arenÂ’t actually Scott and Jean? *shrug*

I am hoping this can be the title in which he finally see them both being effective leaders but I don´t expect things to move along until after inferno is done and we see where each character ends plotwise.

I think what hurt Endora the most was that Sam wasn’t living as a true witch, but as something Endora saw as inferior. And she was doing that for a man (who Endora thought was inferior as well). I kinda get it, actually, though I understand and respect Sam too.

Yes Endora always wanted Sam to be a "proper witch" and leave her "inferior" husband for a real one, she probably saw this as a rebelion from Sam and I liked that she defended him and her choice in life, I just didn´t like his personality :P

Oh! I love that!
ItÂ’s a Soulful house, you know? :P

This sounds a lot better "The Soulful house" for abandoned bubble thoughts :P

In essence it’s the same: I’ll give you a few feats and a few edgy lines and then I’ll write the character whatever I want.
You never read the full rant about Jean in the X-Force, right?

No I didn´t get to it but I can only imagine how it was :P and yes I agree it´s annoying when characters are reduced to one liners and feats but don´t have a character besides that or worse, this is used to get away with any kind of characterization even if it doesn´t make sense or suits the character. It often happens often to women in comics too, which makes me see it as a fake out from truly exploring them as characters.

In Jean´s case is a mixed perception for me, because she did have some good character moments on Krakoa like choosing to leave the QC to go help in Otherworld or the creation of the No kill humans law but the rest of her character, like her relationship with her longtime friends suffered because she was mostly written as Scott´s wife and logan´s lover and that´s a disservice to her character imo.

I thought Marauders was interesting. Excalibur was always boring. And Way of X peaked at issue #1 and just went downhill ending with the infuriating Onslaught Revelation that deserves a full-blown rant of it own.

Agreed, I only liked parts of the Onslaught story.

Exactly. The X-Men are their family. ItÂ’s who they are in their essences. They canÂ’t walk away from it. They can only take a break.

Exactly

All right, but that’s not what I meant. Do you think that after everything he has lived as Magneto, he would be able to completely walk away and dedicate his life to his family? Let’s say, get a little hidden island and take all his descendants (biological or adopted) to live there together, isolated from the world?

No, that´s not what I meant at all, I meant that in the what if Claremont presented in which he married Gabrielle Haller, it was clear he prioritized his family over mutants and that was truly the one moment in his life in which something like this could have happened.

Now, I think he´s married to the cause so whatever relationship familiar or otherwise, is built around the cause and while he prefers to isolate himself from the world because he´s an old lone wolf who likes his privacy at heart, he totally gets his family likes to have their own lives and they will interact once in a while, well except when he´s written by Leah, unfurtunately.

At the same time, in a way, it’s worst than it’s ever been. Because we used to be seen as the oppressed, but now either we comply or we’re seeing as the oppressors.

I can see the irony but in my experience, sometimes this can be taken as an excuse for the "danger of the oppressed becoming the oppresors" I think this comes more from the former oppressors who fear their oppressed doing the same thing to them now that they have the means to do so, while in reality, sometimes, people just want to be left alone and live their life and to do this they need to have the means to defend themselves or at least to have a more equal relationship with the world around them and this often can be mistakenly taken as them becoming "oppresors" in the eyes of the former powers.

I also think this is way more complicated than the formula of the oppresor vs oppressed, life often is way more complicated than that and needs to be seen in the correct context. This duality tends to reduce people to caricatures of themselves.

YouÂ’re not. ThatÂ’s exactly what it is.

Unfortunately yes, the world has become more absurd in later years.

ItÂ’s all in the lack of nuance, isnÂ’t it? Actual hate speech should not be accepted. But thatÂ’s exactly why these SJW are so focused in controlling the language. Because redefine “hate speech” and you can silence anyone who disagrees with you.

Exatly if you take away the space for interpretation, for nuance, for context, for the truth in short and only one group is allowed to dictate what this concept or word means or not and whoever who doesn´t agree with it is automatically a "monster" or "evil" is practically the old absolutism way of thinking given new life in the form of social justice, so for the sake of their idea of "justice", they will be unjust. Is absurd and an irony but we live in the era of relativism after all but even if it can be done doesn´t mean is fair or just or helps humankind live better, as much as they say otherwise.

Raising awareness is awesome. I’ve learnt a lot about the experience of other human beings through it. But again: when people start to want to control the language, they’re not about awareness anymore. TheyÂ’re about censorship.

Exactly and censorhip is usually a characteristic for abolutist or dictatorial systems doesn´t it? I don´t think they themselves are aware of how dangerous this can be if letting out of hand.

[Lucyinthesky]

I thought it was Erik too. His hair just looked really dark, so I wasnÂ’t sure.

Well his hair sometimes is black and sometimes is silver/grey so I guess they gave him back his natural born hair, his hair turned silver after his powers manifested for the first time.

Tsk! The state in which Marvel finds itself! :P

Lol indeed.

Onslaught was the biggest threat and he was laughable in the end! Go Orchis, go!

Sigh I miss those 90´s years where the name Onslaught could make the entire marvel universe tremble, this is the problem when characters lose their internal logic and capabilities and when this happens the story losses their seriouness. It´s hard to take it at face value imo, I liked some heartwarming parts but it would have been better to make the stakes real, without effort and real stakes is hard to care for the conclusion of the story.

They amass that amount of power in Krakoa, then they create a whole new society of warriors, super powerful mutants and they don’t match that on Orchis? And IÂ’m supposed to accept theyÂ’re the big bad and the priority but the mutants havenÂ’t annihilated them yet?

Suspension of disbelief can’t go that far.

Agreed, at the very least Orchis should be full of Sentinels like the Fox ones who could replicate powers and use a lot of netrualization of mutant powers to make things even imo. It can be done the problem is that we have only been told how dangerous they are, we have not seen that.

Yeah. Remember that planetary EMP that fragmented a Cosmic Force? Where is that? Oh, that was not Magneto. Right. But can’t he make one of those, being *the* omega-mutant who controls magnetism? Fine. LetÂ’s say Orchis has some BS EMP protection.

How do they protect molecules from breaking apart? Where the fu** was Exodus????

I can’t, Lucy… I can’t…

:P Yes those motors should really be out of this dimension if they can stay in the face of people with the power to pull appart structures molecule by molecule both Magneto and Exodus are capable of this, sadly it seems my boy forgot this conveniently.

I can just picture them thinking "Why they enjoy dying so much?" "It´s this part of their plan?" ;P

This isn’t Moira for me either and I’ll never forgive Hickman for destroying her character. She should have never been made a mutant, let a alone a silly plot device like this. This is even worse than CC wanting to make Sara Grey into a mutant too.

Anyway, both Destiny and Mystique are super flat at this point. I donÂ’t really know what else to say.

I liked Moira being a mutant because this explained why she got the legacy virus but I hate how little of her character is left so yes, she´s variant Moira for me now.

I am actually enjoying Mystique and Destiny characterization for the first time in decades so there´s that, at least I can say this for Inferno but I truly hate how every other character is being send under a bus characterwise and if this ends with Emma, Moira or Raven or Irene having a "yes girl power" over a dumbed down Charles and Erik I will just roll my eyes to the back of my head and pretend nothing of this happened. I like moments in which women are shown capable or extremely competend but I dislike it a lot when the men are shown as dumb to make it so, it feels like cheating to me.

I have the feeling that Hickman is actually changing the plans here and I don’t know where this is going, so I guess it’s best to just wait for now. But yeah: it’s likely that Moira is the actual villain here and it makes zero sense when you consider the whole HoX/PoX plot.
If Marvel tries pull that one, I’ll be so pissed I don’t think I’ll even be able to read X-Men.

I think they can pull it but they have to take the time to show it and also make room for the real Moira to come back, that way Moira X can become a recurrent and very capable bad guy and foil for the X-men imo.

think Hickman is actually gas-lighting us here and Charles and Mags *actually* didn’t do what she asked of them!!!

This was my idea too, one of my theories is that it was actually them the ones who brought irene back because they know they can´t trust completely Moira anymore. and are just doing their best version of a grumpy face, I can dream, can´t I? :P

Whenever you wanna go Dark Phoenix, let me know. I’m ready.

Believe me, when this happens you will hear all of it

IÂ’ll say this again: everything in this Krakoan era is convenient. The outcome - victory or defeat - is never deserved. And, my God, many times itÂ’s not even shown! We read about it in a data page!

Lol I hope no, If this is truly Hickman´s Swan Song before he leaves, which I am beggining to doubt given his work on unlimited, I would like to see a proper run by him and not just him presenting the other writers with ideas for their stories. I would like to see a self contained book like whedon´s astonishing from him imo.

Honey, you’re making way too much sense, there. After the brain-damage Inferno inflicted on me, I can’t follow!

It´s ok, we will talk when you felt better ;P I told you, I didn´t take the tea but I enjoy negation sometimes to keep myself in a good mood.

Cause you need to write them with hearts or they donÂ’t work. And Hickman is horrible at that.

He wrote Reed, Doom, Susan, Namor, T´Challa, Valeria and Grow up Franklin with a lot of heart and this definitely made their story better, I just think he has a real problem writing the X-men or he has been taking Krakoa´s tea as well, I don´t know which one :P

I blame the tea. Get it out of your system. :P

Lol but sometiems it feels so good to be happy for not reason ;P and to be fair I do think Magneto talked about her being his pupil in the past, so it was his kind of dramatic way of saying "That´s my student"

ItÂ’s not about earning the celebration. It’s about the fact they’re going to Madripoor with the explicit purpose to get into a fight!!!

Sorry I stopped reading after the celebration part but I honestly thought they didn´t actually meant looking for a fight, more like being welcoming IF a fight begins but If we see them actually having a fight I will agree ;P

HereÂ’s a suggestion if you want to fight, my darlings: what about actually drilling your teams? Orchis is still out there, you know?
But, like I said: this is the essence of Krakoa. Can we burn that place down already, please?
And can I get my Cyke back? Because thatÂ’s not himÂ… *cries*

Yes we don´t even know the people that work under them and have not seen even once an actual team group doing drills to get better at working together, no wonder they have been invaded so many times. You are getting slopy people ;p

Think about this: if Mystique had never been a QC member, they could use a BS excuse not to bring her back after one of her deathsÂ… Problem solved.
Here's another thing to think about: someone altered Domino's back-up, right? Why didn't they do it with Raven's fixed idea of bringing Irene back?

I think this is a logical way of dealing with it but I hope not even Krakoa Erik and Charles are THIS level of jerks, like why not invite Mystique at all to the QC if that was going to be a problem? They basically brought this to themselves for no reason other than to create the circunstance for Inferno so the situation does feel forced.

It won’t. You know it won’t. It will be another case of: “that’s the premise. I told you so. DonÂ’t think about it. Pay attention at all the gimmicks IÂ’m throwing at you instead”.

Yes it most probably will be the case, still I will be very happy if this has a good ending at least.

[Grinning Soul]

That works for me!

For me too. :)

Well, that doesn't make me feel any better about the push for "Latinx" or replacing "X-Men".

And those are just examples.

Ask yourself who benefits from our losing our ability to communicate and discuss, from our being pushed into a corner of limited thinking, living under constant social anxiety and confrontation? From the radicalization of both sides?

Do you think that all this pressure and disagreement makes us happier or able to identify and fight for what matters?

What happens when we can't even articulate our issues anymore simply because we lost the language? How soon after that we’ll become - like the Greeks - unable to see blue?

You don’t need to believe in big conspiracy theories to accept that when some people see the chance to profit, they’ll take it.

Well, I would ask "would someone today actually do that?" but I know that there would be.

You’re a civilized man, that’s why it seems absurd to you.

I actually get it, Hiz: there are other things about human beings that I also don't understand and they're hard for me accept.

We have plans to make some tamales this weekend so we'll see what I can learn.

Don’t worry, just enjoy cooking with your family, please. That’s more important to me than a recipe. And knowing you did that will also make me happier. :)

One day I’ll get the chance to eat tamales and if I don’t… it’s just food. I won’t be able to try every dish of every culture anyway. :)

Yep, that's the one I'm looking into. Honestly, just reducing my sugar and junk-food intake would do wonders.

If you are eating on the right proportions to achieve ketosis, the first 10 to 14 days are tough, but then when you body switches and you start to use fat as the main fuel, you feel awesome. At that point, you stop craving those pesky carbs and it’s like your brain isn’t hijacked anymore. Absolute Nirvana.

It’s not very easy to follow the diet if you have to eat on the go, though. And it’s also a good idea to get one of those complete cholesterol profiles you guys have available in the US, just to give you some peace of mind.

That's why I'm collecting hardcovers of old stories, and giving a chance to a random book here and there, because the mainstream stuff isn't really doing well.

Nope, they aren’t.

Ignorance is bliss and all that?

Yeah. If my jelly asked less questions, I’d probably be able to have enjoyed Onslaught, ToM and Inferno. I’d probably be super into the portrayals of Scott and Jean. Alas…

Are we reading the same comics? Can they not see that if they're required to do the narrative heavy-lifting, they're reading a bad story?

I get what you mean, but I think they’re not doing the narrative heavy-lifting. They are working hard, yes, but to justify unjustifiable bad writing by professional writers.

It’s not like we are unreasonable and we refuse to connect the dots while they’re willing. It’s because we see how illogical things are and we can’t un-see it.

Really? I think it might be a matter of post-purchase rationalization (which is "a cognitive bias whereby someone who has purchased an expensive product or service overlooks any faults or defects in order to justify their purchase").

Ugh, it just gives me a headache.

One day we may have a special name for this type of headache that you get from trying to argue logically with someone who doesn’t understand what that means. :D

You're doing the Lord's work, and what's more, so I don't have to. Godspeed my friend.

That means I need to write part 2 of the rant? :P

I thought Hickman would deliver interesting ideas, and I remember liking HoX/PoX despite its issues, assuming that there would be resolution in the main X-Book; boy, was that an enormous disappointment. I think a big reason that I'm enjoying the current X-Men book is precisely because it's not Hickman behind it.

My feeling when I first read HoX/PoX was “this is an interesting sci-fi story, but I don’t think it will be a good X-Men story. Besides, how did we even get here? Particularly when it comes to Scott and Jean?

How does she go from this:





To Krakoa?

And when it comes to him, he had this realisation:



And he screws up during Rosenberg’s run. Let’s attribute that to the horrible circumstances. But then, when the X-Men are back and he decides they shouldn't to hide… Scott forgets about this conversation he had with his son? A son who will be living with him for months in Krakoa? Who actually kept Scott from reconnecting with his wife so he could test him?

So now that both of these absolute heroes are finally together, they go live in an island none of them believe in???

*Sigh*

I’m still waiting for a logical explanation… I don’t think I’ll ever get it.

Haha, yeah, exactly! My dad would tell me that they would get in his parents' ranch too and they would shoo them out; of course, growing up the in states, they weren't as common for us, and it wasn't easy calming my sister down so we could take 'em outside.

My family actually wouldn’t allow us kids to be mean with the little lizards because they ate insects. :D

That’s why there was always, at least, one in the house. They were a protected species there. :D

Not to some we aren't, apparently.

Considering the reactions we get every now and then, I’d have to agree.

Oh, if Jean's hair were drawn that way? 10/10, five stars, A+.

Man Without Fear is a great book, I've leant it to all my friends and family after they told me they liked the first season of Daredevil. Good point about the supernatural element, I doubt there's anything going on there with the current Elektra; still, this design is a vast improvement over the one a few years ago, where they tried giving her a Netflix-inspired suit.

You know… I love that about comics books. You can easily use those little details to help telling a story. I wouldn’t have Jean’s hair constantly acting out. But I’d have it reflecting her mood when she’s happy, angry, feeling romantic. Not like Medusa, actually manipulating stuff with her hair, but just having her hair displaying her tk power and her passionate personality.

I’d have Warren’s wings be extremely expressive as well, particularly when he likes someone, is apprehensive or protective of them. Same about Kurt’s tail. :)

I love those little things. But only when they fit.

Currently, for Elektra, as far as I know, there’s no reason for her hair to be acting that way. So while it looks beautiful, it kinda distracts me. I’d prefer her hair to behave more naturally.

Oh, there's definitely low-level sarcastic background frequency to our absurdity.

Let’s just feed him a sub or a latte (or whatever it was he was drinking in X-Force #9) and remind him that if we can’t read his true self in the comics, he better behave like happy buffoon Krakoa Scott while he’s acting as our spirit animal. :P

I always go to my LCS intending to be there for 10 minutes and before I know it, it's been an hour. Someday I'll have my own personal library.

Going to a real comic book shop in the US should be fun. :)

They'll have to accept the consequences then if they get sick.

The problem is that, again, it doesn’t affect just them if the hospitals get overrun again and we need to start postponing elective surgeries and appointments. So it’s not just a matter of personal responsibility, but social one.

Well, I try - and regularly fail.

I don’t try. I just mask the naughtiness with silly language. I remember we talked about CPR and convenient shadows in this thread and it wasn’t really about any of that… :P

Thanks, I'll share it with my sister's kids.

Over here it’s not easy to find what you guys call heavy cream, so I never tried the recipe using it and, honestly, it might taste too fatty. But with whipping cream (around 30% fat), it should work. You can’t really get it wrong even if you don’t get the cream on the perfect consistency or you just beat the firmed condensed milk with the whipped cream in the mixer.

The biggest “risk” is for the kids to lick the can or ruin some utensil (or cut their fingers) in the blades of the blender. That being said, I love the idea of letting kids do some cooking. :)

I always found him to be incredibly funny even when it didn't seem that his audience liked some of his jokes or that some didn't land properly.

I found his facial expressions and that smart shine in his eyes really good. I should try to watch more stuff of his.

Haha, I bet you're right.

“Tale as old as time. True as it can be”…

See? The jelly did it again! :P

You took the words right out of my mouth, these are exactly the things I think of when I imagine Scott and like you, they're why I love the character so much. He doesn't have to look like me or share most of my experiences to be among my favorite characters.

All about nuance, right? It’s important to the character to have their background respected, but that is not what makes one relate to them unless that’s all that they have to offer.

Good characters are not just their backgrounds, but also their personalities and their experiences.

I'd love to trade Stepford-Scott in for the original model back.

Especially the adult one, who is even more literary yummy than his adorable teen self.

[Grinning Soul]

If we could have him in-character, he'd have to start digging for the truth, which means he would start asking questions to Krakoa as well, right?

I don’t know. Maybe not. Would he dare with all those telepaths there?

That's what I want to see. Maybe that and being away from The Island would finally snap our heroes out of it.

Do you have any idea how many nerdgasms I’d have if Scott and Jean told the QC or its equivalent: “We’re leaving. From now on, you can expect our opposition” and they held hands as they stepped through a Krakoa gate one last time?

By the way, that last recipe seems like exactly the sort of thing for this weekend, thanks!

I’ll cook it on Sunday too because I have two little cartons of whipping cream that are expiring next week! :)

Let me know how it went and if you guys liked the taste, please. :)

Seems to me in that case that Orchis is actually counting on Ben's investigative skills and integrity to give credibility to the story and even if he decides not to publish anything due to lack of sources/evidence, he could be a potential source of information.

After I wrote that reply to Rev, I actually wondered what a journalist is supposed to do when they get a scoop like this. Do they have to first take it to the CIA or something? I don’t know, actually. Do you?

[Grinning Soul]

Agreed they joined mostly because it was better to be together than alone and be taken out one by one but I think Scott got credit because he unsedtood the need so truly all mutants were on Utopia even some of their former enemies but at no point it looked like an actual building of a nation because there were not enough people left for that, it was more like a last stand/Sanctuary for them.

Yep. So for Mags to be overwhelmed like that? Come on… Let’s not exaggerate, guys.

The throne thing was mostly an artist choice for covers or when they wanted to do a an impactful ending like on X-men Blue, in reality when he was on Asteroid M or Genosha, or the School he used just chairs or offices, it was just after he was in a coma that Exodus used to put him on a throne like chair that in reality was a bed with tubes to keep him alive because he was comatose. So I see it more an artistic choice than an actual characteristic.

Well… I think one throne is one too many and expressive enough. But let’s agree to disagree. :)

In Genosha he showed that as leader he´s very hands on, he involves himself in the everyday activities, from rebuilding to fight in the front lines, because Genosha still was on a civil war since the bloodties crossover, which he could not acomplish leading from a throne.

But, you know, kings can be very hands on too. Just saying… :P

I think he can be equaly productive in both ways but he is more happy and relaxed when the leadership doesn´t fall on him alone, with the brotherhood he was a dragon to the team, he was on his might makes right pov and still quite unstable because of his powers, after this he worked mostly alone, with just a few sympatizers around the world who helped him, then he was headmaster of the school and he tried to work his idea of what Charles would do which didn´t quite work and then he became a lord of the hellfire club under storm orders, because they wanted to gain intel from this organization but this brouht suspicions to him from the new mutants, who saw this as him leaving them or betraying the X-men, with the Acolytes he let them do as they pleased as long as they didn´t cause trouble for themselves on earth, in fact they had to convice him to be their leader again because he had tried to stay away from mutant affairs after leaving the school and fighting Zaladane but they still often did under Cortez leadership or others and he often had to take them out of trouble, which was the reason why he fought the X-men again, especially previous to fatal attractions, on Genosha he was both the dragon who scared away the world so mutants could stop being slaves there and the leader for mutants but he sacrificed all his family links and previous friendships for this goal and that role.

So in those instances, I thought he looked more happy when he knew he had others to relly on for leadership like in the case of the school with Storm, Excalibur, Krakoa or Utopia, like when he was headmaster, because he mostly prefers to do things by himself and as a leader of a nation, he can coordinate efforts from afar but when it comes to fighting, he still tries to do most of the fighting himself but when he has allies he allows himself some time to interact, have friendships, even lovers, while still supporting the main leadership. So I would say he´s very productive in general but he´s happier when he has people around him, he can trust.

This will sound like I’m repeating myself, but I’m not. Here it goes: do you think he *prefers* when he’s not the leader?

I agree with you that he seems happier, but that doesn’t mean he prefers it. It doesn’t even mean he realises he’s happier when he’s not leading, you know?

I didn´t meant that Storm had to walk away from the team to sympatize with Magneto, she can and did both, she fought for coexistence because she believed it was truly the best path forward but also sympatized and liked Magneto´s perspective because them both knew and understood how hard things can be for people in the world they lived, mostly because of their experiences and I think Erik appreciated this and respected her a lot for this reason, which Storm also answered by giving him more than one chance and even going to war with the Avengers to keep him with the X-men. She didn´t need to leave and join him for him to appreciate her as a friend and ally and viceversa.

My point is that this is what makes Magneto´s friendship with her different to the one he had with Charles, because with him it was always, my dream or your dream while with Storm is more like, lest just built something good together for mutants and mutants but she also understood they had very different povs and she sometimes had to fight him and he as well but their fights didn´t felt like a competence of who was right, more like, it´s such a shame we can´t work together.

Got it. And I had understood that you didn’t mean that Storm walked away from the dream.

What I was trying to say is that, ideologically, she wasn’t that different than Charles. So my point was… maybe the reason why he could develop a different type of friendship with Ororo was because she wasn’t Charles. It was not because of the ideology but because of a shock of personalities.

Sometimes, men find it easier to work with women because they feel less challenged. Those are not conscious processes, you know? It can come from a primitive part of the brain that deals with silly male competitiveness that is not rational and they’re not even aware. But a woman just doesn’t poke that primitive part of their brain, you know?

Honestly, I find both men super impressive. I really don’t know which one would make me drool more. Mags presence is power incarnate and Charles is a super intelligent, refined, cultured gentleman. Be still my heart. :D

*Ahem.*

The point is… I think it’s possible that as much as they respect and admire each other, they also create this lowkey competition that gets in the way of their cooperation (well, pre-Krakoa at least). And it’s not due to an ideological difference. It's not even rational.

I someties are like this too and while not always the best for emotional health it does help to get things done, so I admire people that manage this in a way that helps them do their work better :P

I found out I was this way during an accident when I was really young. I don’t know if I already had it in me or I was forced to develop that weird “ability”. Basically, I was left alone in a dangerous situation and there was nothing I could do but keep calm, focus on keeping myself safe and wait for the rescue.

Nothing like being thrown out of a burning airplane with my baby brother attached to my chest, but stil…

Funny, I had never made this connection before. Scott *is* my spirit animal indeed.

Agreed for good or bad he´s inspiring for a lot of mutants and even he can´t quite control the way this inspiration will take form and this can always not be such a good thing but yes, he´s definitely inspiring.

Remember we were talking about how Quicksilver is mercurial?

Well, Magneto is magnetic. :)

I won’t promise this is the only smart-ass pun of the day. But I’ll try to keep it mind that I used most of my credits in this one already. :P

Yes it does and yes he´s ruthless but I felt the need to explain why this particular aspect is truly a source of trauma for him, because it´s like reviving the events of WWII or Genosha, it´s remembering him, that despire his power he can´t keep the people he loves and he wants to protect safe or happy and it´s a big source of emotional pain for him and it´s quite ironic because the very first thing the Acolytes did for him was dying to keep him alive while he´s like "Stop doing that" I do that for you, you don´t do that for" etc :P so I don´t think he particulary admires this in Scott, I think he would call it loyalty, not being ready to die for him.

The line between a loyal person who is willing to die for a cause and a fanatic is pretty thin indeed. I don’t *think* anyone in Utopia was a fanatic, though (and the fanatics would be the ones who would bother Mags the most).

I think most of them trusted Scott enough that if his plans required them to die so the rest of the mutants could survive, they’d do it. I think this level of trust and loyalty is something admirable and I think, as conflicted as he may feel, Mags would agree.

Indeed I truly enjoy reading your answes :P

It’s because of my bad jokes, isn’t it? :P

[Grinning Soul]

Exactly, like Jean is supposed to be their friend, what happened to that? Is one of the reasons that I disliked Percy take on her, not because she was not badass, she was but because she seemed to only interact with Wolvie and she didn´t look like she had friends on the team besides him and that´s just not true and she would have been so mad at Beast for charging Colossus with treason with no enough evidence. So yes, I didn´t like this at all.

Preaching to the choir, my dear. I pretty much hated every appearance of her in that book and I’d be the happiest nerd if somehow Percy spared Jean from his Wolverine event.

But what are the chances…? :(

I think the circunstances called for it imo, because at this point Scott was too far gone and had just killed Charles so he really needed that call out awakening to take him out of that trance imo.

But in the actual AvX issue, he saw Jean. This, for me, is much more powerful and Jean-ish and effective.



That other one is better written in terms of description, sure, but Jean’s characterization is just… blegh… It requires some strong headcanon from my part so I don’t scream.

Lol But I enjoy being happy, :P, he isn´t sending me anything, I told him I had to be focused but he insists on taking it for himself and Scott lol but I would love to be over to your house with Scott and try to get back to reality again. :P

If he thinks he knew tough love because of that crazy Red he’s crazy about, he’s in for a surprise. :P

I think they do understand money, what they don´t get is that more money can be made from keeping your readers engaged on the story than in shock and awe but void stories, that said, given the status of the market and how short stories are becoming as a result, I don´t exactly blame them for going for this option.

I do. Their best asset is the bragging rights of having this massive literary project of a story that has been going on for almost 60 years and what do they do? They’re happy to throw it out of the window.

Honestly, they don’t deserve the characters they have in their hands.

Me too, I even loved their story when they finally came back to their own time.

The one with that mutant called Grace?

I am hoping this can be the title in which he finally see them both being effective leaders but I don´t expect things to move along until after inferno is done and we see where each character ends plotwise.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…. Sorry, you were talking about Inferno?

That’s not the end of it. All the comics will be out of sight during the Wolverine event.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…

Please, wake me up when that BS is done? :)

Yes Endora always wanted Sam to be a "proper witch" and leave her "inferior" husband for a real one, she probably saw this as a rebelion from Sam and I liked that she defended him and her choice in life, I just didn´t like his personality :P

I agreed with both Endora and Sam. And I agree with you: Sam could do better. :P

This sounds a lot better "The Soulful house" for abandoned bubble thoughts :P

Come, me darlings. I’ll write a nice fanfiction for you where you’ll be safe and warm. :)

No I didn´t get to it but I can only imagine how it was :P

Full of sarcastic smart-assery, of course. :P

and yes I agree it´s annoying when characters are reduced to one liners and feats but don´t have a character besides that or worse, this is used to get away with any kind of characterization even if it doesn´t make sense or suits the character. It often happens often to women in comics too, which makes me see it as a fake out from truly exploring them as characters.

In Jean´s case is a mixed perception for me, because she did have some good character moments on Krakoa like choosing to leave the QC to go help in Otherworld or the creation of the No kill humans law but the rest of her character, like her relationship with her longtime friends suffered because she was mostly written as Scott´s wife and logan´s lover and that´s a disservice to her character imo.

Wait… we’ll have to disagree here. She wasn’t really being portrayed as Scott’s wife in any way. Until XoS I wasn’t even sure if they had any sort of intimacy at all or they were just pretending to play mommy and daddy for kid Cable’s benefit. Then we got 1 miserable kiss and some hand-holding. It took them 2 years to finally give an indication that their relationship is even sexual and so far I’ve only see that in a preview.

Now, Percy totally wrote her as Logan’s girlfriend who was a push-over capable of saying a few edgy lines and doing some feats.

Agreed, I only liked parts of the Onslaught story.

I didn’t like a single part of it. But I was particularly delightful when I read “there was once a sacred land” for the 5th time! I kid you not: 5th time! I counted!

No, that´s not what I meant at all, I meant that in the what if Claremont presented in which he married Gabrielle Haller, it was clear he prioritized his family over mutants and that was truly the one moment in his life in which something like this could have happened.

Now, I think he´s married to the cause so whatever relationship familiar or otherwise, is built around the cause and while he prefers to isolate himself from the world because he´s an old lone wolf who likes his privacy at heart, he totally gets his family likes to have their own lives and they will interact once in a while, well except when he´s written by Leah, unfurtunately. :(

Got it.:)

Jeez… There’s more ToM next week, right? Do you think we’ll ever get to… you know… an actual trial? :P

I can see the irony but in my experience, sometimes this can be taken as an excuse for the "danger of the oppressed becoming the oppresors" I think this comes more from the former oppressors who fear their oppressed doing the same thing to them now that they have the means to do so, while in reality, sometimes, people just want to be left alone and live their life and to do this they need to have the means to defend themselves or at least to have a more equal relationship with the world around them and this often can be mistakenly taken as them becoming "oppresors" in the eyes of the former powers.

I also think this is way more complicated than the formula of the oppresor vs oppressed, life often is way more complicated than that and needs to be seen in the correct context. This duality tends to reduce people to caricatures of themselves.

I agree with you. But try to explain that to the ones who will call you a bigot for not accepting something stupid as LatinX to define you.

That’s not me. I’m very accommodating. I even offered a neutral, non-offensive way to refer to that ethnicity: just use the English word Latin (or Latin American when you want to specify). Problem solved.

Unfortunately yes, the world has become more absurd in later years.

And brace yourself because I think it will still get worse.

Exatly if you take away the space for interpretation, for nuance, for context, for the truth in short and only one group is allowed to dictate what this concept or word means or not and whoever who doesn´t agree with it is automatically a "monster" or "evil" is practically the old absolutism way of thinking given new life in the form of social justice, so for the sake of their idea of "justice", they will be unjust. Is absurd and an irony but we live in the era of relativism after all but even if it can be done doesn´t mean is fair or just or helps humankind live better, as much as they say otherwise.

I couldn’t agree more.

Let’s all go to Vulcan, I say. I heard logic is king there. Earth is doomed. :P

Exactly and censorhip is usually a characteristic for abolutist or dictatorial systems doesn´t it? I don´t think they themselves are aware of how dangerous this can be if letting out of hand.

Yep. Restricting the flow of ideas is a telltale of dictatorship.

And I think you’re right: they have no idea of the Pandora box they’re opening. You open it, you don’t get just one “necessary evil” out.

[Lucyinthesky]

Yep. So for Mags to be overwhelmed like that? Come onÂ… LetÂ’s not exaggerate, guys.

Agreed my take on this was that the writting team were Scott fanboys,this forum had such fun that they even edited the scene and added flowers and chocolates and I was just like "my poor eyes" "I can´t unsee this" but also I was lol at the edits. :P

WellÂ… I think one throne is one too many and expressive enough. But letÂ’s agree to disagree.

I personally do think he enjoys his thrones but I also think this was marvel way of showing "Look how cool this bad guy looks on a throne" so yes, lest agree to disagree. Like I dont think is coincidence they show him in a office of just doing team work when he´s on his good phases and then they show him back into his throne like chair when he´s going to the "darkside" again.

But, you know, kings can be very hands on too. Just sayingÂ… :P

Lol I agree and I do think he viewed himself like this on Genosha and Avalon but I think the destruction of Genosha, HoM and decimation pretty much broke his heart and beat this out of him in a painful way, he even told Charles on Excalibur "I can´t inspire people" to which Charles was like " Yeah sure" "And those last years we have been fighting over mutantkind leadership didn´t happen":P, He Will take leadership positions when needed but he now also appreciates way more than he used to the value of allies and outside support be it from the X-men, the Hellfire Club, the Avengers, etc. Those events showed him he can´t manage every possible possibility on his own as much as he would like to think otherwise.

But if we keep the productive perspective, this is also why I think he´s productive either way, as Genosha leader he took the country back from the brink of self destruction to a tecnological country with all the infraestructure that comes with it in less than a year and on Utopia he managed the crisis with the support for the island by making an alliance with Namor and on Krakoa he did the whole "revive" mars thing with other omega mutants and Claremont even made the comment that Mars was a long time project he had with Magneto even before Hickman´s run, that was the end point for Asteroid M to have Mars as a home outside home for mutants, so yes, he´s good at management and he´s very productive either way but he was way happier living as headmaster or on Utopia and Krakoa than he was on Genosha or Avalon, symply because he allowed himself to be a person there and nost just be a symbol for people to fear or admire or hate.

This will sound like I’m repeating myself, but I’m not. Here it goes: do you think he *prefers* when he’s not the leader?

I agree with you that he seems happier, but that doesn’t mean he prefers it. It doesn’t even mean he realises he’s happier when he’s not leading, you know?

Mmm I think he reases it to a certain point, he told Johana, a former acolyte, on X-men legacy he didn´t want followers and she didn´t want a leader anymore so both of them grew as people but he also enjoys being a leader, it´s only post HoM he has been more like, I will do things on my own or support others and if push comes to shove I will be a leader again but he´s aware than when he´s that he can also turn more to his inner "Darkside" than he would like because his mind goes right back into the "if it´s neccesary I will do it" pov, it´s something that even X-men Blue tackled openly with his talk with younger Jean, this duality of the character is something I have always liked and I think he can overcome his inner darkside but he would have to admit he needs help on that front and I am not sure the writers will let him :P

Got it. And I had understood that you didn’t mean that Storm walked away from the dream.

What I was trying to say is that, ideologically, she wasn’t that different than Charles. So my point was… maybe the reason why he could develop a different type of friendship with Ororo was because she wasnÂ’t Charles. It was not because of the ideology but because of a shock of personalities.

Sometimes, men find it easier to work with women because they feel less challenged. Those are not conscious processes, you know? It can come from a primitive part of the brain that deals with silly male competitiveness that is not rational and theyÂ’re not even aware. But a woman just doesnÂ’t poke that primitive part of their brain, you know?

Ok now you made me think of them as cavemen looking to rule over the tribe and I loled at this, but I see your point and I do see part of this being behind their differences but I also see some context and rational reasons behind their different perspectives.

I once read a fan tell how they saw the different perspective of Xavier and Magneto comes from how they grew up, in Charles case, he lived well off financially speaking but emotionally his father died when he was young, his mother was an alcholic and he often had to take care of her, his stepfather and stepbrother abused him and he tried in all those circunstances to be the better person and not take revenge on them even if he had the means and power to do so, his power allowed him to see them as flawed people that needed correction and even if to this day he still has a hard time forgiving Cain´s abuse,he still can´t help but think with the correct approach Cain can become a good person and he did to a point. So from Charles pov coexistence depends greatly on people´s personal choices and institutions are built around those people.

In Magneto´s case, he came from a loving family who had a good life before the war, with a very loving father who was proud of being Jewish and German and of his country acomplishments but when things got hard and the country his father loved turned on them, his father still hold some hope in people while his uncle Erich tought it was dangerous to take that perspective and they should take actions, in the end his father agreed but the family could not survive the war and Max(Magneto) had to survive by himself, alone but didn´t quite had the hope to make it either until he reunited with Magda, then them both fleed and married and he took on his uncle name "Erik". From his pov, the system failed his dad and his people, the system killed Anya and while he easily could see the reason behind that, he also learned that sometimes instituations can be quite inhumane to people if they see them as an obstacle to it´s objectives, so he came to the conclusion that if people are not part of the systems of power, especially if they happen to be vulnerable, they will be overcome and destroyed at some point,just in this case, it will be the case for mutants.

They started having this argument back on Israel and I think its telling that when Magneto told this to Charles, Charles thought he was a little drunk, because surely his good friend Magnus would agree with him on this? while for Magneto Charles looked too naive but well intentioned and noble and probably thought the world would just break his good friend heart. Of course there´s also both their egos at work, we can´t take that out of the equation but I think their previous and mostly unconscious memories are at work for a lot of their fights.

Like even when they said to each other "you are like a brother to me" they are not talking about the same thing, when Charles thinks of brother is both the idealized brother he wanted to have and... Cain and when Magnus thinks of brother is an idealized brother but also his sister who died in the war along with the rest of his family, that he failed to protect, in his mind and I seriously doubt both of those guys have ever come close to getting into those motivations, they argue over the present and keep subcouncious how much they are also talking about both their past imo.

In Storm case I didn´t see this clash of personalities and pasts because Storm yes is woman but is also more flexible than both of them, she was the first person ever to tell Magneto on page she thought his dream was worth fighting for, that it was good and the it was just the dreamer that had become corrupted. Charles never quite got to this point on his arguments with Magneto, for him Magnus was probably another person he had to help see his dream was the best option and this is why I think Magneto was more open to listen to Storm at first and why they worked so easily together when she was the X-men leader. So my take is that Storm was able to see there was more than one option while for them it was mostly one way or another. Well this is how I see it

[Lucyinthesky]

Honestly, I find both men super impressive. I really donÂ’t know which one would make me drool more. Mags presence is power incarnate and Charles is a super intelligent, refined, cultured gentleman. Be still my heart.

*Ahem.*

"Power incarnate" "Refined, cultured, gentleman" is a great way to describe them

Honestly same here, they are both very impresive indeed

Fun fact: Magneto has openly called Charles a " A Gentleman, learned and cult" things he greatly admires while Charles has said on page he has taken inspiration to keep fighting for his dream from Magneto so even they are not unaware of this :P

The point is… I think it’s possible that as much as they respect and admire each other, they also create this lowkey competition that gets in the way of their cooperation (well, pre-Krakoa at least). And itÂ’s not due to an ideological difference. It's not even rational.

Well they have cooperated before on the School and on Genosha post massacre, this is not unheard but Krakoa is the first try of them mixing their approaches instead of going with one or another and with them both as leaders, Utopia was more Scott running the show and at the school everybody listened to Charles more than anything, even Magneto as a personal favor for him agreed to be the New Mutants teacher.

I found out I was this way during an accident when I was really young. I don’t know if I already had it in me or I was forced to develop that weird “ability”. Basically, I was left alone in a dangerous situation and there was nothing I could do but keep calm, focus on keeping myself safe and wait for the rescue.

Nothing like being thrown out of a burning airplane with my baby brother attached to my chest, but stil…

Funny, I had never made this connection before. Scott *is* my spirit animal indeed.

Indeed he´s and yes, your description is exactly what I meant by admiring those traits.

Remember we were talking about how Quicksilver is mercurial?

Well, Magneto is magnetic.

I won’t promise this is the only smart-ass pun of the day. But I’ll try to keep it mind that I used most of my credits in this one already. :P

Lmao don´t stop on my behalf, I love your puns, Pietro can´t help his mercurial temper and Magnus can´t stop being magnetic, it´s who they are :P

The line between a loyal person who is willing to die for a cause and a fanatic is pretty thin indeed. I donÂ’t *think* anyone in Utopia was a fanatic, though (and the fanatics would be the ones who would bother Mags the most).

Yes a loyal person can sacrifice themselves not just for one person in particular but because they see as a way to protect someone else or for a good end and this doesn´t meant they will do this at the drop of a hat, just when it truly doesn´t look like there´s another option, imo all the X-men have a little of this and Magneto did this to defend Utopia form the sentinels and not just for his loyalty to Scott.

I think most of them trusted Scott enough that if his plans required them to die so the rest of the mutants could survive, theyÂ’d do it. I think this level of trust and loyalty is something admirable and I think, as conflicted as he may feel, Mags would agree.

I don´t think Mags is conflicted over the X-men loyalty to Scott, he feels conflict over the dream of coexistence, basically because every nerve and bone on his body tells him, this is naive, stop doing this, this doesnt work but the loyalty Scott and Charles have personally as people, he can see why and agrees and even feels some of that same loyalty.

ItÂ’s because of my bad jokes, isn’t it? :P

It´s part of it but I also love how much themes we can cover here, and it´s great to be able to do so with friends :P

[Grinning Soul]

Well his hair sometimes is black and sometimes is silver/grey so I guess they gave him back his natural born hair, his hair turned silver after his powers manifested for the first time.

And there’s also the effect of that weird amber light.

I think it’s him too. I just wasn’t 100% sure when I wrote the rant.

Lol indeed.

I mean, she’s taking a nap on the teaser. Maybe that nap was her third Krakoan death. Who knows?

Sigh I miss those 90´s years where the name Onslaught could make the entire marvel universe tremble, this is the problem when characters lose their internal logic and capabilities and when this happens the story losses their seriouness. It´s hard to take it at face value imo, I liked some heartwarming parts but it would have been better to make the stakes real, without effort and real stakes is hard to care for the conclusion of the story.

I was particularly thrilled when the writer spent *pages* exploring how Cortez would save the day, but not really.

Agreed, at the very least Orchis should be full of Sentinels like the Fox ones who could replicate powers and use a lot of netrualization of mutant powers to make things even imo. It can be done the problem is that we have only been told how dangerous they are, we have not seen that.

”Tell, don't show” is the mantra of the X-Office religion.

P Yes those motors should really be out of this dimension if they can stay in the face of people with the power to pull appart structures molecule by molecule both Magneto and Exodus are capable of this, sadly it seems my boy forgot this conveniently.

He also forgot he had just brought from space iron enough to increase the mass of the core of an effing a planet? His one and only plan was to push the Forge into the Sun? What about throw a dense metal asteroid on it?

Seriously, how many ways could Magneto alone destroy that base?

This hurts my brain!!!!

I can just picture them thinking "Why they enjoy dying so much?" "It´s this part of their plan?" ;P

I’m supposed to believe that mutants are superior, Lucy. ‘Cause I was told so.

I liked Moira being a mutant because this explained why she got the legacy virus but I hate how little of her character is left so yes, she´s variant Moira for me now.

Sara, Moira, Kravita, etc… What made them so cool was the fact they were humans and fought for the mutants or worked with them in meaningful way. Giving them X-Genes destroys their bravery and selflessness. And I hate it.

I am actually enjoying Mystique and Destiny characterization for the first time in decades so there´s that, at least I can say this for Inferno but I truly hate how every other character is being send under a bus characterwise and if this ends with Emma, Moira or Raven or Irene having a "yes girl power" over a dumbed down Charles and Erik I will just roll my eyes to the back of my head and pretend nothing of this happened. I like moments in which women are shown capable or extremely competend but I dislike it a lot when the men are shown as dumb to make it so, it feels like cheating to me.

I see Irene and Raven as yet another couple Hickman thinks I’m supposed to care about because they’re married. Like Genesis and Apocalypse. Like evil-widow-I-don’t-remember the name and pre-Nimrod-husband. Like ZombieJean and StepfordScott. It’s like he uses the idea of marriage as a way to convince me those characters have depth.

Well, show me their actual relationship and their actual depth, then.

I agree with you the girl power thing, but I don’t think that’s Hickman’s plans.

I think they can pull it but they have to take the time to show it and also make room for the real Moira to come back, that way Moira X can become a recurrent and very capable bad guy and foil for the X-men imo.

Ugh… Please, don’t. Let’s not… Let this plot device die and remain dead. I don’t want a walking-talking resetting machine. One story of this sort is one story too many.

This was my idea too, one of my theories is that it was actually them the ones who brought irene back because they know they can´t trust completely Moira anymore. and are just doing their best version of a grumpy face, I can dream, can´t I? :P

Sure, hon. But you’re in for a disappointment, I think.

Believe me, when this happens you will hear all of it :)

I’ll go iron my sash. It’s in the contract we have to look absolutely fab while Dark Phoenix-ing. :P

Lol I hope no, If this is truly Hickman´s Swan Song before he leaves, which I am beggining to doubt given his work on unlimited, I would like to see a proper run by him and not just him presenting the other writers with ideas for their stories. I would like to see a self contained book like whedon´s astonishing from him imo.

I wouldn’t. I’m glad to see him leave.

God speed, sweetheart. Don’t come back until you understand you don’t get to brag about *not* writing a hero book when writing the X-Men flagship!

It´s ok, we will talk when you felt better ;P I told you, I didn´t take the tea but I enjoy negation sometimes to keep myself in a good mood.

You power of self-hypnosis is something to behold! :)

He wrote Reed, Doom, Susan, Namor, T´Challa, Valeria and Grow up Franklin with a lot of heart and this definitely made their story better, I just think he has a real problem writing the X-men or he has been taking Krakoa´s tea as well, I don´t know which one :P

I haven’t read the whole runs, but I read some of the FF and some of Illuminati and I gave up on both because I was bored and unimpressed exactly because the characters always felt flat to me. But that might be a matter of taste.

Lol but sometiems it feels so good to be happy for not reason ;P and to be fair I do think Magneto talked about her being his pupil in the past, so it was his kind of dramatic way of saying "That´s my student"

I totally get it. Some little things sometimes also make me ridiculously happy. :)

You know something that makes me happy like this in real life? When they play an old song I love in the radio. :)

Sorry I stopped reading after the celebration part but I honestly thought they didn´t actually meant looking for a fight, more like being welcoming IF a fight begins but If we see them actually having a fight I will agree ;P

They know a fight would happen there and that’s exactly why they picked Madripoor. Totally in character moment for Scott, of course. But, hey, he’s having fun!

No, he’s not. That evil twin of his is having fun.

Yes we don´t even know the people that work under them and have not seen even once an actual team group doing drills to get better at working together, no wonder they have been invaded so many times. You are getting slopy people ;p

I’m asking this again: is there a Danger Room facility in Krakoa? Or in the Treehouse (which was designed by Scott drill-sargent Summers himself)?

I think this is a logical way of dealing with it but I hope not even Krakoa Erik and Charles are THIS level of jerks, like why not invite Mystique at all to the QC if that was going to be a problem? They basically brought this to themselves for no reason other than to create the circunstance for Inferno so the situation does feel forced.

That’s exactly what I said in the rant: why was she ever given a position of power to begin with?

And if she had it for whatever reason and they *knew* Raven was so dangerous because of Irene, if someone was willing to “edit” Domino against her will… why not Raven? Yeah. It’s a super jerk move, but so was what was done to Domino. So ethics is only Krakoa’s forte when it comes to dangerous people? Puh-lease.

Yes it most probably will be the case, still I will be very happy if this has a good ending at least.

I’ll be happy if my favourite characters don’t get tarnished by this mess of a story.

[Lucyinthesky]

Preaching to the choir, my dear. I pretty much hated every appearance of her in that book and I’d be the happiest nerd if somehow Percy spared Jean from his Wolverine event.

But what are the chances…?

I was going to say there´s a chance but I just found out Jean is on the cover of the first issue but well, if you go Dark Phoenix, I am here to listen.

But in the actual AvX issue, he saw Jean. This, for me, is much more powerful and Jean-ish and effective.
That other one is better written in terms of description, sure, but Jean’s characterization is just… blegh… It requires some strong headcanon from my part so I don’t scream.

I understand :P and yes Jean didn´t have much of a characterization but given at the time she was still dead, I just took what little was there of her. I guess I missed her so seeing her talk to Scott there made me ridicuously happy.

If he thinks he knew tough love because of that crazy Red he’s crazy about, he’s in for a surprise.

I will tell him to brace himself.

I do. Their best asset is the bragging rights of having this massive literary project of a story that has been going on for almost 60 years and what do they do? TheyÂ’re happy to throw it out of the window.

Honestly, they don’t deserve the characters they have in their hands.

On this I agree, is hard to feel bad for them when they are so ready to bring down take away what makes these characters so appealing and popular in the first place. I liked the idea of Krakoa, it´s the execution that has been lackluster with just some exceptions like Ewing Sword.

The one with that mutant called Grace?

That one exactly.

ZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzÂ…. Sorry, you were talking about Inferno?

ThatÂ’s not the end of it. All the comics will be out of sight during the Wolverine event.

ZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzÂ…

Please, wake me up when that BS is done?

Lol I will make sure to do so on January or February but I am not sure if you also want to avoid X lives of Wovlerine.

I agreed with both Endora and Sam. And I agree with you: Sam could do better.

She definitely can, I liked more Jenny´s man. He was nice.

Come, me darlings. I’ll write a nice fanfiction for you where you’ll be safe and warm.

Yees, lots of space for little bubble thoughts to play around.

]Full of sarcastic smart-assery, of course.

Sometimes it´s neccesary to just let it all out.

Wait… we’ll have to disagree here. She wasn’t really being portrayed as Scott’s wife in any way. Until XoS I wasn’t even sure if they had any sort of intimacy at all or they were just pretending to play mommy and daddy for kid CableÂ’s benefit. Then we got 1 miserable kiss and some hand-holding. It took them 2 years to finally give an indication that their relationship is even sexual and so far IÂ’ve only see that in a preview.

Now, Percy totally wrote her as LoganÂ’s girlfriend who was a push-over capable of saying a few edgy lines and doing some feats.

Well I counted Jean and Scott scenes with Cable and them arguing over that plant in their home but yes, there was a lot more of Jean/Logan than Scott/Jean this era and yes, not amused at all at her just being on X-force to be Logan´s girlfriend, I thought it was a great idea to put her in a position not quite confortable for her but I got dissapointed when he just wanted her to be with Logan, forgetting even her long time friends. like, just no.

I didn’t like a single part of it. But I was particularly delightful when I read “there was once a sacred land” for the 5th time! I kid you not: 5th time! I counted!

I honestly think Spurrier got himself so excited over the story in his head that he forgot, we the readers were not quite there with him yet and I disliked him bullying Kurt over being catholic every issue, leave him alone Simon.

Got it.

Jeez… There’s more ToM next week, right? Do you think we’ll ever get to… you know… an actual trial? :P

No, I don´t think so, Leah herself said the title was not her choice and that her story was not really about Magneto even if it had his name on the title, things I could deal with if he just had a better characterization but given he doesn´t, you can just picture my dissapointment over her take on him and Lorna. I just hope it´s done quickly.

I agree with you. But try to explain that to the ones who will call you a bigot for not accepting something stupid as LatinX to define you.

ThatÂ’s not me. IÂ’m very accommodating. I even offered a neutral, non-offensive way to refer to that ethnicity: just use the English word Latin (or Latin American when you want to specify). Problem solved.

I will remember to talk about the Latin neutral but if it comes to words they will understand, I will just say "I get tiggered everytime you say the word Latinx" they may still call me a bigot but will get part of why I dislike the word and people have actually called me a nazi before, I can deal with being called a bigot and is a more fun way of saying it :P

And brace yourself because I think it will still get worse.

Sigh yes, this definitely looks like it, this is why I think is important for people to talk about this problem.

I couldn’t agree more.

Let’s all go to Vulcan, I say. I heard logic is king there. Earth is doomed. :P

Lol I am sure Spock would love to have us over and will get confused over Earth becoming so un-logic it will hurt his brain ;P

Yep. Restricting the flow of ideas is a telltale of dictatorship.
And I think you’re right: they have no idea of the Pandora box they’re opening. You open it, you don’t get just one “necessary evil” out.

Yes I think I will also talk to them about 1984 and what was the exact point of the "Thought Police" and add they will not always get to say what each word means if history is anything to go by imo.

[Lucyinthesky]

And there’s also the effect of that weird amber light.
I think it’s him too. I just wasn’t 100% sure when I wrote the rant.

Yes I also think it´s the amber light.

I mean, she’s taking a nap on the teaser. Maybe that nap was her third Krakoan death. Who knows?

I didn´t think so but you may be right, I just hope it´s not the case, already tired of Krakoa taking death so lightly.

I was particularly thrilled when the writer spent *pages* exploring how Cortez would save the day, but not really.

Yes I got his idea to redeem Cortez or make him more palatable and it´s ok, I get it but I also think he should have done that on previous issues and his role should have been a little more active and Lost too.

”Tell, don't show” is the mantra of the X-Office religion.

Agreed :P

He also forgot he had just brought from space iron enough to increase the mass of the core of an effing a planet? His one and only plan was to push the Forge into the Sun? What about throw a dense metal asteroid on it?

Seriously, how many ways could Magneto alone destroy that base?

This hurts my brain!!!

The Asteroid has been the answer from day one, instead of sending X-force over and over again.

I’m supposed to believe that mutants are superior, Lucy. ‘Cause I was told so.

The problem is that not only are they not superior but this makes them look like fools. Trained warriors from thousands of battles, who have saved the world over and over again, keep sending their people to die constantly and don´t learn anything from it. This is worse.

Sara, Moira, Kravita, etc… What made them so cool was the fact they were humans and fought for the mutants or worked with them in meaningful way. Giving them X-Genes destroys their bravery and selflessness. And I hate it.

Yes I agree we need a lot more human allies equaly if not more convinced of the coexistence idea and I miss Kavita a lot. I just thought Moira being a mutant was a nice way to close up the legacy virus plot until they decided to rewrite her entire personality.

I see Irene and Raven as yet another couple Hickman thinks I’m supposed to care about because they’re married. Like Genesis and Apocalypse. Like evil-widow-I-don’t-remember the name and pre-Nimrod-husband. Like ZombieJean and StepfordScott. It’s like he uses the idea of marriage as a way to convince me those characters have depth.

Well, show me their actual relationship and their actual depth, then.

Yes I enjoy them having romantic relationships like every other reader, I thouht apocalypse love for Genesis was cute and yes it was interesting to see Nimrod not just being a mutant killing machine but we didn´t see how they got there and from Mystique and Destiny I am mostly enjoying their ruthlesness, it´s been a long time since I saw them being actually menacing so them on inferno, actually look like people who would be leaders of the brotherhood.

I agree with you the girl power thing, but I don’t think that’s Hickman’s plans.

I hope so.

Ugh… Please, don’t. Let’s not… Let this plot device die and remain dead. I don’t want a walking-talking resetting machine. One story of this sort is one story too many.

Well, lest see what happens, I personally dont think this Moira will last much but her being a villain could be interesting.

Sure, hon. But you’re in for a disappointment, I think.

I hope I wont but I can deal with dissapointment if needed.

I’ll go iron my sash. It’s in the contract we have to look absolutely fab while Dark Phoenix-ing. :P

Yess lest go get ready for out dark phoenix moments, you with X lives of Logan and I with ToM

I wouldn’t. I’m glad to see him leave.

God speed, sweetheart. Don’t come back until you understand you don’t get to brag about *not* writing a hero book when writing the X-Men flagship!

On this I agree completely, the X-men are some of the biggest heros in comics Mr Hickman and their flagship book should show it.

]You power of self-hypnosis is something to behold!

It´s indeed :P

I haven’t read the whole runs, but I read some of the FF and some of Illuminati and I gave up on both because I was bored and unimpressed exactly because the characters always felt flat to me. But that might be a matter of taste.

Probably, I liked to see Valerias development, Reed fight with himself over his goals and his family as well as Franklin human side despite his powers.

I totally get it. Some little things sometimes also make me ridiculously happy.

You know something that makes me happy like this in real life? When they play an old song I love in the radio.

Yes, it´s sometimes the little things that make us more happy, I also enjoy a lot when they play my favorite songs in the radio, it´s just different than when I play them myself.

They know a fight would happen there and that’s exactly why they picked Madripoor. Totally in character moment for Scott, of course. But, hey, he’s having fun!

No, he’s not. That evil twin of his is having fun.

Lol well whoever this Scott is I hope it´s having fun so Scott can come back to himself later.

I’m asking this again: is there a Danger Room facility in Krakoa? Or in the Treehouse (which was designed by Scott drill-sargent Summers himself)?

Theres one actually, the Akademos habitat has one but they have not truly shown it.

That’s exactly what I said in the rant: why was she ever given a position of power to begin with?

And if she had it for whatever reason and they *knew* Raven was so dangerous because of Irene, if someone was willing to “edit” Domino against her will… why not Raven? Yeah. It’s a super jerk move, but so was what was done to Domino. So ethics is only Krakoa’s forte when it comes to dangerous people? Puh-lease.

Lol I don´t think they edited Domino on purpose, I think Onslaught "eat" those memories just like he did with others, so yes, so far no one has gotten their memories purposely edited, that we know of, Inferno could change this.

I’ll be happy if my favourite characters don’t get tarnished by this mess of a story.

Honestly, this is my exact feeling everytime I read a comic with my faves on it, so I totally get this feeling and could not agree more.

[Grinning Soul]

Lucy, I'm not sure I'll have time to reply to your posts today. If not, I'll do it tomorrow, okay? :)

Have a great weekend!

[Lucyinthesky]

Lucy, I'm not sure I'll have time to reply to your posts today. If not, I'll do it tomorrow, okay?

Have a great weekend!

No problem, take your time.