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  1. #946
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I totally understand this. In hindsight, it isn’t a well-written scene. Duggan could’ve had Jean do what she did and still given Lorna a speech.
    Yes I liked the suggestion on the X-men #5 thread that Jean could have just shown Lornaīs prepared speech before changing her mind instead of changing her words, I think that would have made for a better scene.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  2. #947
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Yes I liked the suggestion on the X-men #5 thread that Jean could have just shown Lornaīs prepared speech before changing her mind instead of changing her words, I think that would have made for a better scene.
    But Lorna did say to herself “Just pick me,” which is why Jean chose those words. I get your point, though.


  3. #948
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Oh yes, Lorna did thought that but by this conversation, Lorna and Jean didnīt even talk about this and they have been on this team some time which just means Jean decided to change her words out of the blue, without even talking with her which is just odd. Also "pick me" is not much of a speech either, why would other mutants choose Lorna if she said just "pick me"? we donīt know why and neither does Lorna it seems, which contradicts the original reactions she and other contenders had during the vote.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 11-30-2021 at 11:43 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  4. #949
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    "(...) And changing what I said is so you"

    I will never forgive Duggan for that line (it goes in the same bin as "try harder, Marvel Girl"). And I'm still puzzled why we didn't get a riot in Jean's thread.

    Actually, I'm not. Most Jean Grey's fan over there don't believe a hero character can be interesting and doesn't have to be perfect. But I've already talked about the hero perception problem here.

  5. #950
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    Maybe that's why we didn't riot.

    We do believe a hero can be flawed (as both Jean and Lorna's histories have shown) So this can be possibly construed as one of those moments (though I personally disagree)

    And that this is comics...it makes absolutely no sense getting angsty and causing a riot over something that...
    1: Is already done and cannot be changed
    2: Isn't real...but a figment of another person's imagination.
    3: Isn't that egregious, in the context of the actual story. (What goes on in the readers' heads, not withstanding)

  6. #951
    Mighty Member davetvs's Avatar
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    Right. Try harder, Marvel Girl was only a problem if you're obsessed with Jean being The Most Powerful Always. It was perfect characterization for Monet.

  7. #952
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Maybe that's why we didn't riot.

    We do believe a hero can be flawed (as both Jean and Lorna's histories have shown) So this can be possibly construed as one of those moments (though I personally disagree)

    And that this is comics...it makes absolutely no sense getting angsty and causing a riot over something that...
    1: Is already done and cannot be changed
    2: Isn't real...but a figment of another person's imagination.
    3: Isn't that egregious, in the context of the actual story. (What goes on in the readers' heads, not withstanding)
    I didn't meant *actually* creating a riot. But just being upset that the writer is implying that taking someone's free will away is Jean's MO. When, canonically, it isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by davetvs View Post
    Right. Try harder, Marvel Girl was only a problem if you're obsessed with Jean being The Most Powerful Always. It was perfect characterization for Monet.
    See? That is the problem: you're not the only person that does that but people assume so much about how other people think instead of *actually* enganging with the ideas they are expressing.

    I don't obsess about Jean being the most powerful always. I'm one fan who prefers when she's not. And I've said that several times.

    My problem with the scene is not a matter of power, but characterization. Jean is a veteran combatant and Hickman had her freaking out because she was in a tough spot. It has nothing to do with power levels, but the fact it disregard her experience as an X-Men.

    But sure... assume it's because I obsess about power levels. It's easier than to try to understand why people might have a problem with a scene you liked (or didn't bother you).

  8. #953
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    I knew what you meant, GS. And that was my point...it is foolish to to get upset over something that may or may not have been implied and that in the context of the story and these two characters was by and large irrelevant. Even if, for discussion's sake...Jean did take away Lorna's free will in that instance, that is absolutely not nor has it ever been Jean's MO, ever. And to read Lorna's line as an implication of such is ridiculous and negates the actual reason given for Jean doing what she did. And anyone who thinks that really does not know the character that well.

    It's utterly silly and pointless really the way some fans will re-write the story in their heads just to prove their personal biases while completely ignoring the written story right in front their eyes.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 12-01-2021 at 07:56 AM.

  9. #954
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    I knew what you meant, GS. And that was my point...it is foolish to to get upset over something that may or may not have been implied and that in the context of the story and these two characters was by and large irrelevant. Even if, for discussion's sake...Jean did take away Lorna's free will in that instance, that is absolutely not nor has it ever been Jean's MO, ever. And to read Lorna's line as an implication of such is ridiculous and negates the actual reason given for Jean doing what she did. And anyone who thinks that really does not know the character that well.

    It's utterly silly and pointless really the way some fans will re-write the story in their heads just to prove their personal biases while completely ignoring the written story right in front their eyes.
    Deva,

    I'm not upset with the fans. I'm puzzled. But many things in human behavior puzzle me because I'm admittedly a weird person.

    I'm very aware that those are fictional characters and we can't change the stories. But if that's an impediment to talk about them, what are any of us doing here?

    Anyway, I don't want to talk about any of that anymore. I'm quitting comics. I'm moving on. I was just interacting with friends one last time here because I'll miss our interaction.

  10. #955
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    When I say get upset...I'm talking about fans in general always getting upset over something written about their favourite character. I was not referring to you getting upset over other fans' reactions.

    It's not an impediment to talk about them but "some fans" (overgeneralisation) here get way too caught up in their head-spaces and feels to even consider that their are other opinions and interpretations regardless we agree with them or not.

  11. #956
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    When I say get upset...I'm talking about fans in general always getting upset over something written about their favourite character. I was not referring to you getting upset over other fans' reactions.

    It's not an impediment to talk about them but "some fans" (overgeneralisation) here get way too caught up in their head-spaces and feels to even consider that their are other opinions and interpretations regardless we agree with them or not.
    At the same time, people get upset that people are upset and many times they don't try to understand why. They just assume it's a ridiculous fan reaction... which, you know, could very well be the case but just because some fans do that, it doesn't mean all of them act that way.

    Anyway, I'm sorry if this sounds cold, but none of that is going to be my problem anymore. :D

    Good luck! o/

  12. #957
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    Good luck to you as well.

  13. #958

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    Found this adorable art on Facebook by Carl Broaddus. Enjoy!

    Scott-Jean321.jpg
    Join me on the official website for X-men Supreme, home of Marvel Universe 1015. Want a fresh take on X-men? Click below to enter the official home of Marvel at it's most Supreme!


    Or if you want, check out my YouTube channel, Jack's World.

  14. #959

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    Cyclops and Marvel Girl by Natanael Maia.jpg

    Found this piece on Ebay. It's by Natanael Maia. I cannot find a colored version, but I'll post it if I find one.
    Join me on the official website for X-men Supreme, home of Marvel Universe 1015. Want a fresh take on X-men? Click below to enter the official home of Marvel at it's most Supreme!


    Or if you want, check out my YouTube channel, Jack's World.

  15. #960
    Mighty Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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