Scott and Jean Appreciation Thread 2021

[Grinning Soul]

Her friends or her family, I agree, we need to see more of her old self. When Peter came back so traumatized I wondered why didn´t anyone care to talk with him besides Domino where you have Jean, Storm, Cyclops or Wolvie being long time friends with him.

And Jean was there when Kitty brought Piotr to Krakoa!!!

Then, Domino herself goes through some ridiculous trauma and Jean doesn’t check on her even though she’s on her team!!!

But imo, I think her actitude and Scott´s comes down to the main flaw of this era, that the characters and their personalities are being forced to suit the plot, instead of the plot growing out of the characterization and this is definitely hurting the characters and the verosimilitude of the story. I will post something more later.

Please, do. Because I can’t get enough of bitching about it. :P

I’m joking, but I mean it. It bothers me so much!

I actually took this the same way, her snapping Scott out of Dark Phoenix because nothing else would have worked with him at that point and just after he did a whole monologue about sharing the dark phoenix experience with Jean, while Jean is all about, stop reminiscing and start acting, idiot :P I call it tough love and it´s quite a sigh to see.

I hated that. I’ve seen Jean’s tough love many times and it doesn’t sound like that. I’m talking about Uncanny X-Men #19, by the way.

I can cry and laugh as well but the good news is that those moments will also pass :D also I am having too much fun with my headcanon to let it go yet, I love a happy Erik no matter the source, it´s so rare that I am starving for it. Look a what marvel has done to me Soul.

Is Mags sending that Krakoa tea to you too? You need intervention, dear. ASAP! :D

Come to my house and bring Scott with you and we’ll get you both clean and miserable again! :P

Exactly this is why marvel always trying to force a character with edginees it doesn´t have their desired result, because if that edginess was the result of them losing their internal logic and character then the reader will see it and reject it as false. They may make new readers who like that version of the character but the older ones will see that´s not who the character used to be and leave most probably.

Yeah. And this is stupid, because you want to keep your loyal readers while adding new ones. It’s like they don’t really understand how money works…

Thank you and yes I think I see it, mostly in the adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix, I liked how they dealt with having no powers, defending and raising Nathan while also dealing with Apocalypse´s forces and I can see all that.

They only didn’t have powers for the first scenes, actually. But I loved seeing them raising Nathan and still being ridiculously in love throughout the years, of course! :D

We had never really seen both of them sharing the leadership of a group, though, and I’d love to see it done better. So far, X-Men has been a bit disappointing in this sense too. Then again, how could it not when those characters aren’t actually Scott and Jean? *shrug*

Yes and also, she´s her Mom so she probably could not get why her daughter liked the guy in the first place and was hopeful she could convince her to leave him. A completely shameless homewrecker lol.

I think what hurt Endora the most was that Sam wasn’t living as a true witch, but as something Endora saw as inferior. And she was doing that for a man (who Endora thought was inferior as well). I kinda get it, actually, though I understand and respect Sam too.

That sounds awesome, the Soul home for abandoned bubble thoughts.

Oh! I love that!

It’s a Soulful house, you know? :P

I think they enjoy having Jean back and being a badass, nothing wrong with that, I agree her characterization could be a lot better, especially when it comes to her friendships and relationships but I don´t think she´s quite in such a bad situation as Sue has been for years imo.

In essence it’s the same: I’ll give you a few feats and a few edgy lines and then I’ll write the character whatever I want.

You never read the full rant about Jean in the X-Force, right?

I believe that´s fine, I used to be very excited for Marauders and Excalibur and even Way of X but I didn´t like the direction those books took so I stopped seeing them and honestly it´s been better that way, as a fan and a long time reader, is perfectly reasonable to talk with your wallet as well.

I thought Marauders was interesting. Excalibur was always boring. And Way of X peaked at issue #1 and just went downhill ending with the infuriating Onslaught Revelation that deserves a full-blown rant of it own.

[Grinning Soul]

I think Jean and Scott will always care about family and the world and family for them is each other and their kids but also the X-men so while they may at points see the X-men a mission they can leave in favor of taking care of themselves and their own, the X-men are their family too, their brothers and sisters and friends so they will always come back to them, one way or another, they are linked together, they can be heros and fight for the world with the X-men or solo but they are not just a team, they are a family.

Exactly. The X-Men are their family. It’s who they are in their essences. They can’t walk away from it. They can only take a break.

Erik was not "Magneto" at that point, that would happen until after trying the whole spy bussines and finding out about operation paper clip, it was until then when he truly lost it when it came to human goverments and institutions and developed the idea of taking over them instead and also his powers growing made him a lot more unestable.

Having a family would not make him any less mad at goverment institutions but would give him something to worry about as well and hence make him rethink his methods and looking for a situation in which his family and mutants and even the world can be better so he will compromise more, and less use of his powers also means less unstability on his way of thinking. So this is bassically him on a more mentally stable place and more open to see other povs. He´s come to this point on Krakoa and before that Utopia and Genosha pre-HoM but the journey which was a terrible time for the world and him could have been avoided.

All right, but that’s not what I meant. Do you think that after everything he has lived as Magneto, he would be able to completely walk away and dedicate his life to his family? Let’s say, get a little hidden island and take all his descendants (biological or adopted) to live there together, isolated from the world?

My point is, don´t try to impose a term to refer to a people you are not part to, people you are unwilling to understand or know and yet are already judging, let their language be their bussines and stop making it your bussines, especially when you can´t even do the basic civil thing of understanding their worldview, history and culture. Thank you and move on. Yes it´s imperialism at the cultural level even but I am quite sure most are not even aware this is what they are doing , yes we are angry over it but more annoyed at it and we also have a lot more important stuff to sort out so we will not give this version of the language police the attention they seek by actually taking them seriously, sometimes, thanks but not thanks is enough. When you have a story in which your country had to fight to the death while being invaded constantly by foreing armies thinking they had the right to destroy you and take over your country by this same imperialist way of thinking, people making out of nowhere a cute word and then blaming and shaming us for not using it as a politically correct definition of ourselves because they know better thant us, is such a minor thing honestly. If I was on a clown mode I would make a comment of how everything on this era is being degraded, even imperialism is not what it used to be. :P

At the same time, in a way, it’s worst than it’s ever been. Because we used to be seen as the oppressed, but now either we comply or we’re seeing as the oppressors.

I think we are getting to a stage when the absurd is the norm and rationality is madness. I hope I am wrong imo.

You’re not. That’s exactly what it is.

False generalization is indeed a problem and yes social networks are becoming quite a big problem when it comes to personal security of the users and also big source of censure of all types, i´s also why I dislike greatly the use of cancel culture because this is actually helping social networks imposse even more censure with the excuse, well this person obviously is wrong, evil and a monster and we will show them how much we despise them but they don´t notice that they can´t control this same cancel culture for going agaisnt them if they as much get on someone, with enough pull, bad side. This is virtual mobs trying to "kill" others with insults and it´s just wrong imo.

It’s all in the lack of nuance, isn’t it? Actual hate speech should not be accepted. But that’s exactly why these SJW are so focused in controlling the language. Because redefine “hate speech” and you can silence anyone who disagrees with you.

Yes you can raise awarness towards social problems, yes you should do it sometimes, it´s good and fair when the instituations in charge are not doing enough or are not able to do it but this is also a signal of a problem that needs to be addressed at the instituational level, not by a virtual mob that more often than not, can be often used as a censure tool instead of an awarness instrument. those are my two cents.

Raising awareness is awesome. I’ve learnt a lot about the experience of other human beings through it. But again: when people start to want to control the language, they’re not about awareness anymore. They’re about censorship.

[Grinning Soul]

I am expecting them to die in the end like the X-men did on HoX and yes, my guess is that was definitely Erik with Charles, there´s art of them going for Orchis.

I thought it was Erik too. His hair just looked really dark, so I wasn’t sure.

All of Krakoa will die more times than her, this is what happens when you don´t put attention Jean :P

Tsk! The state in which Marvel finds itself! :P

Orchis definitely is the weakest part of the story imo, the don´t have any built or complex motivation and Hickman is depending on data pages to tell us how much of a menace they are and so far, only Onslaught has shown that level of danger for Krakoa, we all can think of a lot of ways in which the X-men and Krakoa itself can just easily go away with Orchis influence and armies but the story needs Orchis to be a BIG DANGER and here we are, the character have to act dumb because of plot.

Onslaught was the biggest threat and he was laughable in the end! Go Orchis, go!

They amass that amount of power in Krakoa, then they create a whole new society of warriors, super powerful mutants and they don’t match that on Orchis? And I’m supposed to accept they’re the big bad and the priority but the mutants haven’t annihilated them yet?

Suspension of disbelief can’t go that far.

Magneto can just short circuit the whole base and disarm it while Exodus destoys it at the molecular level but we need Orchis to be untouchable for the story to work and Moira to make sense, that´s the problem.

Yeah. Remember that planetary EMP that fragmented a Cosmic Force? Where is that? Oh, that was not Magneto. Right. But can’t he make one of those, being *the* omega-mutant who controls magnetism? Fine. Let’s say Orchis has some BS EMP protection.

How do they protect molecules from breaking apart? Where the fu** was Exodus????

I can’t, Lucy… I can’t…

My poor boy Hickman you are his fan, you know he can wreck things like nobodys bussines, I am very dissapointed sir, this is the reason why I have to get excited overh Erik drinking, I could buy him dying in such a silly manner if he was drunk out of his mind. Yes I get Orchis needs to be inestoppable but you could have used more issues to write that sir, that was your homework.

Like I said: suspension of disbelief can’t be extended to infinite.

When even the bad guys are wondering why their opponent doesn´t learn anything and is just dying in a silly manner, we need an adjustment on characterization, already.

I actually don´t know how you feel about Destiny and Moira honestly :) but I would like to hear about it.At this point, this isn´t Moira for me, this is some character that´s using her face but not much else besides it, she doesn´t even dress like her anymore and I have a hard time caring for her or her grieve with Destiny.

This isn’t Moira for me either and I’ll never forgive Hickman for destroying her character. She should have never been made a mutant, let a alone a silly plot device like this. This is even worse than CC wanting to make Sara Grey into a mutant too.

Anyway, both Destiny and Mystique are super flat at this point. I don’t really know what else to say.

I get the feeling she told Charles an edited version of the events and while this doens´t make Destiny look anymore less than brutal and judgmental it does give arguments that "Moira" didn´t ever stop thinking mutants are monsters that should be cured or brought down and appart for the lack of nuance, this makes her look like the main villain of the story,with Orchis being just the goon, and my problem with this is that Charles and Erik have been following this woman blindly and even keep a fellow mutant dead under her instruction and this just doesn´t make sense with who they are as a people, but then this Moira manipulated them into becoming her tools didn´t she?

I have the feeling that Hickman is actually changing the plans here and I don’t know where this is going, so I guess it’s best to just wait for now. But yeah: it’s likely that Moira is the actual villain here and it makes zero sense when you consider the whole HoX/PoX plot.

If Marvel tries pull that one, I’ll be so pissed I don’t think I’ll even be able to read X-Men.

Exactly, I was also like, they have done everything you asked of them missy, even being completely OOC and dyng a few times, what´s you problem?

I think Hickman is actually gas-lighting us here and Charles and Mags *actually* didn’t do what she asked of them!!!

Whenever you wanna go Dark Phoenix, let me know. I’m ready.

They really are horrible at it when they should not and that´s the problem because it comes from the plot mandated story.

I’ll say this again: everything in this Krakoan era is convenient. The outcome - victory or defeat - is never deserved. And, my God, many times it’s not even shown! We read about it in a data page!

Yes what´s with that how come they are following everything she says to them to the letter even if it compromises them with their follow mutants and now are using tecnorganic viruses to know where she´s going? something the X-men have only done to sabretooth? what the hell? and how exactly is Destiny relevant in relation to Orchis? Would not be better to have her around precisely because Orchis seems to be so unstopable and Nirmrod an inevitability? Would not this be a good time to have someone who can see different variants and futures I ask?

Honey, you’re making way too much sense, there. After the brain-damage Inferno inflicted on me, I can’t follow! :D

Also sorry but while Magneto could still be mad enough at Moira over her tampering on his DNA to do something like this to her even if then it doesn´t explain why he put so much trust in her in the first time, Charles would never do this to a woman he is madly in love with, but then again, this is from the same writer that had the iluminati blowing out planets and even that had more background and built it than this.

I actually like Hickman´s writting and is precisely because of this I KNOW for a fact he can do better, not sure why he´s having so much trouble writing the X-men as they actually are.

‘Cause you need to write them with hearts or they don’t work. And Hickman is horrible at that.

I actually liked this scene, yes its kind of silly but I just love Magik and Erik sort of interacting and being in the same room as well as a calling out to their time in New mutants, I am weak, what I am going to say.

I blame the tea. Get it out of your system. :P

But I get your point, because this celebration doesn´t feel earned, the Great Captains have not acomplished anything yet and even if I think it´s fair for them to keep their own counsel when it comes to choosing a new leader for themselves without the council, because honestly, even the council doesn´t trust itself, them going to celebrate instead of addresing the security situation on Krakoa as well as the situation with Orchis is just is strange. I love to see them being happy but I would love some more old school scenes of them addresing Krakoa´s security.

It’s not about earning the celebration. It’s about the fact they’re going to Madripoor with the explicit purpose to get into a fight!!!

Here’s a suggestion if you want to fight, my darlings: what about actually drilling your teams? Orchis is still out there, you know?

But, like I said: this is the essence of Krakoa. Can we burn that place down already, please?

And can I get my Cyke back? Because that’s not him… *cries*

Well I definitely agree the "plan" to take out mystique from the council was silly, why invite her there at all then? why promise they were going to bring back irene if they truly were not going to even if they announced they will at some point to Moira? it´s like they have never been on a governing body which both at some point have been, Charles as a leader of mutant rights and Magneto on Genosha and the UN. They are way smarter than this.

Think about this: if Mystique had never been a QC member, they could use a BS excuse not to bring her back after one of her deaths… Problem solved.

Here's another thing to think about: someone altered Domino's back-up, right? Why didn't they do it with Raven's fixed idea of bringing Irene back?

Imo the best part so far of this story has been Mystique and Irene relationship, and "variant" Moira character development but my problem with this is that it´s coming at the cost of the characterization of a lot other characters and if not addressed this will also mess with the verosimilitude to the story.

I hope whatever Hickman is planning for the end will address all narrative issues.

It won’t. You know it won’t. It will be another case of: “that’s the premise. I told you so. Don’t think about it. Pay attention at all the gimmicks I’m throwing at you instead”.

[Hizashi]

Thank you I am happy to be back too.



I miss this Scott too, I hope he gets the opportunity to show off his leadership skills more.



I agree, I liked part of what we saw last issue but I need a lot of more meat when it comes to characterization for Jean, Scott and the team as well

I missed a lot in just a few days!

[Hizashi]

I know. I mentioned it there too. But nowadays I’m keeping my better explanations for this thread and private messages. I’m too tired of wasting time with people who don’t really want to discuss stuff.

You guys are gold. I love that we have this little corner where we can go into deeper arguments and considerations and, even when we disagree, it’s all good. I don’t feel drained. I feel invigorated.

If you want to use any of the stuff I said here on the thread, though, please, feel free. I don’t have the patience, but if the idea made sense to you, it’s yours now to share, my friend. That’s the whole point of us talking about it here.

Lastly, yes: forcing changes in language is absurd. Languages live and breathe. They change naturally.

Forcing changes in usage of words can be justified if they’re weapons to incite hatred (like the n-word). But the word “men” isn’t and has never been that.

Everyone here is golden!

Yep. English has lots of them. Quite a handy language in this sense as well.

The topic of idioms came up at work the other day, we really are on some weird wave-length.

I agree. It reminds me of the last episode of the first season of Star Trek: The Next Generation, actually. Have you watched it?

Unfortunately not, the amount of Star Trek episodes, original or TNG, that I've watched is pretty low; an old friend introduced the series to me along with Doctor Who, and I really gravitated towards the latter. Feel free to hit me with spoilers.

That’s awesome!

I worked on a render specifically for the cooking section of the crazy mess that is the thread! I’ll post that - and the first recipe - soon!

I have to take that back, because she's doing the typical Hispanic mom thing and instead of writing anything down she says I have to cook it myself to understand it, all as a ploy to spend time with her son! Can you believe that?

Oh, honey, ageing will come to you too. Regardless of what happens to your real stomach, your metaphorical one will also get more sensitive because you’ll start to get more and more aware of you have less and less time to spend on BS.

Well, I have been thinking about changing my diet, physical and metaphorical...

Are you ready, visor? Start shooting!

I don’t know why my jelly does that. The other day I read quite some troll comments in a row and I got the “who let the dogs out?” song to my head, except, the jelly was singing “who let the trolls out?” instead.

I’m telling you: it’s an over active jelly with a life of its own. If one day I get a brain scan and the doctor tells me there’s an alien attached to my brain, I’ll reply: “yep. That explains it”.

I think you'd keep it.

It would be a dream, Hiz… I’d be a happy nerd!

We all would!

I don’t interact with them in my personal social circle either, but they are influential and you can’t be unaware of what the most radicals say, even if you’re like me who does not use the big social media company products.

And you’re right: their behaviour don’t actually address racism and bigotry. But most of them aren’t trying. At some point, for some of them, the focus moves from the cause to the fight and then it becomes the fight.

It's a minefield, I'm not always sure what is or isn't taboo.

I’m happy you felt that way, but it wasn’t intended as a pickmeup.

I told this to a friend yesterday: I deal with facts and jokes. That (=what I said in the previous message) was a fact.

It applies here too.

Too late, I already thanked you!

I don’t really disagree… Hickman tried to make Nimrod more compelling, but, in a way, he’d used the same strategy with Apocalypse and even Scott: “see? Do you see how cool they are? How they really love their wives? See? Background. There. It’s written. Now let me write them whatever the hell I want and stop bothering me.”

*Sigh*

Let’s see how we feel once the last issue of Inferno is out.

I saw how you laid out the first issue, I'm glad I haven't picked it up.

At the time I’m writing this, I could have bought it already because I live in Europe. But I haven’t and I’m not sure if I will. What does that tell you?

The hype is gone?

That’s how I feel too. But I try not to kill the critters who won’t become an infestation.

I sometimes react before I know what it is. I remember once that a gecko or lizard of some kind got into my childhood home and my sister was freaking out.

We have to come up with a good name for our team!

Argh, I made another typo. Team name... I'll need time to think.

The art is really good.

I really like Elektra's hair, and want it always drawn that way.

HAHAHA! Yes! Exactly that!

And we're aware of it, which is more than some can say.

It would. It’s been ages I bought a physical copy of a comic book, but I probably would buy those.

I like going to my LCS and talking to the guys and just being surrounded by books.

No, not the doctors either. It should be the scientists (so doctors in the sense of PhDs).

I'm good with those doctors.

Totally… :P

Gotta keep it PG, got it.

Which recipe you prefer next: the easy ice cream or the cheese risotto?

Can't go wrong with ice cream.

Sometimes when jokes don’t land they’re funnier than they would have been if they had landed!

Do you know the comedian Norm Macdonald?

And took it for granted!

As parents do.

Yep. More than those other gimmicks we talked about recently here: like silly humour or giving inconsequential flaws to the characters, etc…

And that's what they are, gimmicks. Empty calories.

[Hizashi]

Me. I’d blame myself. I’m my worst critic. :P

Scott is your spirit animal after all.

The little talk and the little game was good. But it could have been the talk and the game between two old friends. There was real intimacy there and it was great to see it, but it wasn’t necessarily romantic.

Now, I’m *not* suggesting it always has to be romantic. I’m just saying it’s not as romantic as people are reading it to be. It only appears this way because we know they’re supposed to be a couple.

As for Ben… I got more worried than before.

Totally agree with your first point. We need some more oomph!

What worries you about Ben exactly?

[Grinning Soul]

Everyone here is golden!

It’s like we’re a hidden-in-plain-sight corner where we can have some actual discussions without the usual passive-aggressive BS or direct attacks. I have a theory: I think the length of the posts keep the lazy-minded and/or close-minded away. Can I prove it? Nope. Is it based on anything? Nope. :P

The topic of idioms came up at work the other day, we really are on some weird wave-length.

You think? Would you believe if I told you I recently watched this?



Now tie that to all to the discussion about languages, LatinX and “X-Men” being outdated.



Language matters and people are very aware of that.

Unfortunately not, the amount of Star Trek episodes, original or TNG, that I've watched is pretty low; an old friend introduced the series to me along with Doctor Who, and I really gravitated towards the latter. Feel free to hit me with spoilers.

***Spoilers***

In that episode, they find some humans who had been frozen centuries ago and who are still alive in their frozen containers. Unlike the episode with a similar premise in the original series, this time those humans aren’t anything special. They were just typical people of their time and that is what makes that part of the episode interesting.

Because there are 370 years of gap in the cultures of the main characters and those early humans and the difference in the levels of civility (particularly one of the characters) is staggering.

For instance, one of them starts using the intercom of the ship to annoy the captain. When asked why he did that, he said because he could and if he wasn’t supposed to do that, they should have used executive cards to restrict the access to the bridge.

Can you see where I’m getting here? I’d want everyone to be civil and socially-responsible enough so we wouldn’t need the version of “executive cards” when it comes to this pandemic. But they aren’t.

I have to take that back, because she's doing the typical Hispanic mom thing and instead of writing anything down she says I have to cook it myself to understand it, all as a ploy to spend time with her son! Can you believe that?

Yes. I can totally believe that. Don’t worry.

I still don’t mind sharing the recipes if you want them, though.

Well, I have been thinking about changing my diet, physical and metaphorical...

The best diet (as in a food regimen, not a device to lose weight) I’ve ever tried was the ketogenic one. I loved how strong, energetic, calm and focused I felt while I was adopting it. Unfortunately, I can’t digest the amount of fat it requires anymore.

As for the metaphorical diet… yeah. I guess I should be consuming older comics/literature/series only, while waiting for those dark times to pass.

I think you'd keep it.

Would I? Mmm… Good question! :D

Sometimes I’d like to have a normal brain that doesn’t think too much and doesn’t make those crazy associations all the time.

We all would!

Not so sure… Some people actually like the comics in general. Some fans seem to like Scott’s portrayal in particular.

It boggles my mind.

It's a minefield, I'm not always sure what is or isn't taboo.

It’s a total mess. I thought of writing here that whatever doesn’t agree with their opinions is hateful speech, but then I considered that their opinions are also internally contradictory so… *shrugs*

Too late, I already thanked you!

Damn! :P

You’re welcome, then, Hiz. :)

I saw how you laid out the first issue, I'm glad I haven't picked it up.

I think I have to finish reading this pile of garbage now. But I’m really not looking forward to it. I might delay it one or two days again, ‘cause I need to prepare my brain for the injury I’ll probably be inflicting on it.

The hype is gone?

I was never really hyped about anything in Krakoa… It’s more that the disgust is getting to unbearable levels… I expect those stories to be horrible and I keep being proved wrong: they’re worse than horrible.

I sometimes react before I know what it is. I remember once that a gecko or lizard of some kind got into my childhood home and my sister was freaking out.

Are you talking about a lagartija?

I grew up being told they’re friendly and to leave them alone. They were quite common in my grandparents’ ranch and there was often one inside the house.

Argh, I made another typo. Team name... I'll need time to think.

If we were a different flavour of crazy, we could be the Psycho-lops. But we’re harmless. :D

I really like Elektra's hair, and want it always drawn that way.

I don’t know. It’s beautiful, but it looks supernatural. And she doesn’t have a reason for that. Does she?

I like when Jean’s hair gets a life of its own because of her telekinesis: it helps expressing her mood, especially when we consider that mutant powers are often so linked with their emotions. It’s the equivalent of having an extra glow behind Scott’s visor, for instance.

I liked how crazy Elektra’s hair was in Daredevil The Man Without Fear (I think the current one is inspired on that portrayal, just “beautified”), but that’s because she was actually somewhat possessed with something dark in that story.

It’s not case now, is it?

And we're aware of it, which is more than some can say.

Do we think our self-awareness comes from the grumpy comments of our spirit animal? Like, even if we can’t actually hear his voice, we feel his sarcasm commenting on our absurdity? ‘Cause if so, I think I’ll give him a big sandwich to munch. I heard he’s learnt to appreciate them now. :P

We’re here to be absurd, Scott. Eat your damn sub and let us think of crazy adventures and stories you could be sharing with Jean! :P

I like going to my LCS and talking to the guys and just being surrounded by books.

I used to like it too, but I don’t live near any comic book shops and the ones here also have a different vibe anyway.

I'm good with those doctors.

Yep. But most people aren’t really listening to them.

Gotta keep it PG, got it.

Not really. I certainly don’t. :P

Can't go wrong with ice cream.

I’ll post it later, then. :)

Do you know the comedian Norm Macdonald?

I had to google, but yes: I remember him from old SNL episodes. Why?

As parents do.

Yeah. We better not criticise it too much. It’s possible our parents said the same about theirs, after all. :P

And that's what they are, gimmicks. Empty calories.

Here’s the thing: he’s a white, young man, who was raised in Alaska and currently lives in orphanage in Nebraska. Those things are fundamental parts of his character and changing them would change who he is.

While I share none of those traits, I relate to him. So much!



My parents are still alive and I never suffered skull trauma. But I know what it is like not to feel like I belong where I am, to feel alone even when surrounded by people (like the art shows so well here). To want to connect and offer help, only to be met with hostility. To be called an alien. To feel like an alien. To feel the pain, yet choose not to grow bitter because of that…

You see? That’s the power of good art imitating life. In many ways, I have very little in common with Scott. But because he’s such a good character, with so much depth, I (a complex human being) can relate to the character on many levels, not because the writers are trying to write this super human, perfect creature or make him "likeable", but because he is supposed to be human and flawed, because he has an internal logic that reads as real.

That is the Scott Summers I love and miss.

[Grinning Soul]

Scott is your spirit animal after all.

Yours too. I called it already. :P

Totally agree with your first point. We need some more oomph!

What worries you about Ben exactly?

I’m worried that Ben might run the story without gathering more information (‘cause we know he knows the truth, but he’s supposed to be a beyond-reproach journalist and he can't just trust the info Orchis gave him). I’m also worried that Ben might sit on the story because mutants are so “kind”, with Duggan using the fact he didn’t publish Matt’s secret identity as justification.

Both scenarios would character assassinate Ben.

And if that doesn't happen, I'm worried about what could have stopped him. I hope it's not Jean. And I also hope it's not Emma because she's already everywhere again and she doesn't need to be in X-Men too.

[Grinning Soul]

Flatscan-easy Ice Cream (no need for a mutant circuit for it to work :P)

. 400 ml whipping cream (30% fat)
. 1 can (= 395 g) condensed milk

Using a mixer, whip the cream until you can form soft peaks with it. Don’t whip it too long or you’ll end up with butter (the solid parts will separate from the liquid).

Using a blender, stir the condensed milk for about 3 min, until it forms a firm cream.

Using a whisk, slowly add the condensed milk to the whipped cream. Done.

It’s advised to poor the mixture into small plastic cups or popsicle molds. While the texture of the ice cream doesn’t get icy at all, it’s quite dense and difficult to scoop out if you freeze it in a big container.

Keep it in the freezer for, at least, 4 hours then it’s ready.

Enjoy! :)

Note 1: You can add sprinkles, chocolate chips, cookie crumbs, coconut rasps, etc… to the mix to add some extra flavour, but it’s really tasty on its own.

Note 2: it has a higher fat content than most ice creams, so it does feel rich but not in a greasy way. I wouldn't call it healthy, but at least it doesn’t come with lots weird ingredients like soy derivatives, high-fructose corn syrup and guar gum.

[Rev9]

Yours too. I called it already. :P



I’m worried that Ben might run the story without gathering more information (‘cause we know he knows the truth, but he’s supposed to be a beyond-reproach journalist and he can't just trust the info Orchis gave him). I’m also worried that Ben might sit on the story because mutants are so “kind”, with Duggan using the fact he didn’t publish Matt’s secret identity as justification.

Both scenarios would character assassinate Ben.

And if that doesn't happen, I'm worried about what could have stopped him. I hope it's not Jean. And I also hope it's not Emma because she's already everywhere again and she doesn't need to be in X-Men too.

If you don't mind ,whose secret identity did he find out but didn't publish?(Matt who? ..what issue is this?)

As to your point,I personally don't think Ben can get more information. I doubt any Krakoan would divulge any secrets.The only ones at this point are maybe the Avengers giving him some footage or picture of a resurrected Wanda(if it's really her).Though I don't know if he's on that level of familiarity with them and the bigger question is why they'd try to do that(unless they don't trust this SW) At this point Orchis are eager to show him some hot story with evidence of Cyke's corpse, which definitely sets off alarm bells for Ben as he spoke with Cyke in XMen# 1.

About what stopped him..on the Matt story,I'm as curious as you are

[Grinning Soul]

If you don't mind ,whose secret identity did he find out but didn't publish?(Matt who? ..what issue is this?)

As to your point,I personally don't think Ben can get more information. I doubt any Krakoan would divulge any secrets.The only ones at this point are maybe the Avengers giving him some footage or picture of a resurrected Wanda(if it's really her).Though I don't know if he's on that level of familiarity with them and the bigger question is why they'd try to do that(unless they don't trust this SW) At this point Orchis are eager to show him some hot story with evidence of Cyke's corpse, which definitely sets off alarm bells for Ben as he spoke with Cyke in XMen# 1.

About what stopped him..on the Matt story,I'm as curious as you are :eek:

Hi Rev,

So you found us, uh? Welcome! :)

I’m a huge Daredevil fan and up to Waid’s run I had read all DD’s comics and quite a lot of extra stories and appearances. It’s not really relevant to your question, but it’s part of the answer.

Ben Urich’s original appearance was in Daredevil’s book and during one of the stories, he found out his secret identity: Matt Murdock. That’s the Matt I mentioned. That was waaaaaaaaay before DD was actually outed during Bendis’ run.

Ben decided not to print that story because he understood it would ruin Matt’s life and he had learned enough about Daredevil and Matt in his civilian to life to understand the guy was actually trying to help, already sacrificing too much of his life by doing that. So, basically, Ben gave up on the fame and glory that scoop would bring him to protect Matt.

Ben is, incidentally, one of my favourite Marvel characters even though he’s just a supporting character. So, yes, I’m worried.

Ben is very resourceful. I don’t think he would publish anything without actual sources (Krakoan defectors, for instance? People who did autopsies on mutants who died many years ago, etc…) and if he couldn’t find them, he simply wouldn’t publish. So if he does publish what he had already pieced together (based on what he told Scott in issue #1 and who knows what else?) just because Orchis gave him info he can’t verify…? Yeah. That would be character assassination.

If Duggan tries to equate keeping Matt’s secret to keeping a secret like Krakoa's - which is not a person but a foreign power? That will both be character assassination *and* it would get me really angry, because DD is a hero and Krakoa’s rulers are everything but.


EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to answer you. Ben confronts DD and he confirms he is Matt Murdock in Daredevil (vol. 1) #164.

[Rev9]

Hi Rev,

So you found us, uh? Welcome!

I’m a huge Daredevil fan and up to Waid’s run I had read all DD’s comics and quite a lot of extra stories and appearances. It’s not really relevant to your question, but it’s part of the answer.

Ben Urich’s original appearance was in Daredevil’s book and during one of the stories, he found out his secret identity: Matt Murdock. That’s the Matt I mentioned. That was waaaaaaaaay before DD was actually outed during Bendis’ run.

Ben decided not to print that story because he understood it would ruin Matt’s life and he had learned enough about Daredevil and Matt in his civilian to life to understand the guy was actually trying to help, already sacrificing too much of his life by doing that. So, basically, Ben gave up on the fame and glory that scoop would bring him to protect Matt.

Ben is, incidentally, one of my favourite Marvel characters even though he’s just a supporting character. So, yes, I’m worried.

Ben is very resourceful. I don’t think he would publish anything without actual sources (Krakoan defectors, for instance? People who did autopsies on mutants who died many years ago, etc…) and if he couldn’t find them, he simply wouldn’t publish. So if he does publish what he had already pieced together (based on what he told Scott in issue #1 and who knows what else?) just because Orchis gave him info he can’t verify…? Yeah. That would be character assassination.

If Duggan tries to equate keeping Matt’s secret to keeping a secret like Krakoa's - which is not a person but a foreign power? That will both be character assassination *and* it would get me really angry, because DD is a hero and Krakoa’s rulers are everything but.


EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to answer you. Ben confronts DD and he confirms he is Matt Murdock in Daredevil (vol. 1) #164.

Thanks for the details and good catch on people who did autopsies on mutants. Didn't think of that. Well I can see how not publishing the story involving a nation with such a secret would taint his journalism cred and character after all you've said, but then with the likes of Emma,Xavier and even Jean(because her beau is the story) it wouldn't surprise me if he is made to 'drop' the story. After Emma's moves in Hellions ,he'd be lucky not to end up in an accident..Lets wait and see

[Grinning Soul]

Thanks for the details and good catch on people who did autopsies on mutants. Didn't think of that. Well I can see how not publishing the story involving a nation with such a secret would taint his ournalism cred and character after all you've said, but then with the likes of Emma,Xavier and even Jean(because her beau is the story) it wouldn't surprise me if he is made to 'drop' the story. After Emma's moves in Hellions ,he'd be lucky not to end up in an accident..Lets wait and see

Sure, no problem. :)

The only outcome I can think of that I'd be okay with would be if Ben decided he had to get more people on record and really put his all into this piece. But that would take more time than Orchis is willing to wait and they find another journalist who doesn't have Ben's integrity and who would be willing to run the story instead.

But like you said... let's wait and see.

[Hizashi]

It’s like we’re a hidden-in-plain-sight corner where we can have some actual discussions without the usual passive-aggressive BS or direct attacks. I have a theory: I think the length of the posts keep the lazy-minded and/or close-minded away. Can I prove it? Nope. Is it based on anything? Nope.

That works for me!

You think? Would you believe if I told you I recently watched this?



Now tie that to all to the discussion about languages, LatinX and “X-Men” being outdated.



Language matters and people are very aware of that.

Well, that doesn't make me feel any better about the push for "Latinx" or replacing "X-Men".

***Spoilers***

In that episode, they find some humans who had been frozen centuries ago and who are still alive in their frozen containers. Unlike the episode with a similar premise in the original series, this time those humans aren’t anything special. They were just typical people of their time and that is what makes that part of the episode interesting.

Because there are 370 years of gap in the cultures of the main characters and those early humans and the difference in the levels of civility (particularly one of the characters) is staggering.

For instance, one of them starts using the intercom of the ship to annoy the captain. When asked why he did that, he said because he could and if he wasn’t supposed to do that, they should have used executive cards to restrict the access to the bridge.

Can you see where I’m getting here? I’d want everyone to be civil and socially-responsible enough so we wouldn’t need the version of “executive cards” when it comes to this pandemic. But they aren’t.

Well, I would ask "would someone today actually do that?" but I know that there would be.

Yes. I can totally believe that. Don’t worry.

I still don’t mind sharing the recipes if you want them, though.

We have plans to make some tamales this weekend so we'll see what I can learn.

The best diet (as in a food regimen, not a device to lose weight) I’ve ever tried was the ketogenic one. I loved how strong, energetic, calm and focused I felt while I was adopting it. Unfortunately, I can’t digest the amount of fat it requires anymore.

As for the metaphorical diet… yeah. I guess I should be consuming older comics/literature/series only, while waiting for those dark times to pass.

Yep, that's the one I'm looking into. Honestly, just reducing my sugar and junk-food intake would do wonders.

That's why I'm collecting hardcovers of old stories, and giving a chance to a random book here and there, because the mainstream stuff isn't really doing well.

Would I? Mmm… Good question!

Sometimes I’d like to have a normal brain that doesn’t think too much and doesn’t make those crazy associations all the time.

Ignorance is bliss and all that?

Not so sure… Some people actually like the comics in general. Some fans seem to like Scott’s portrayal in particular.

It boggles my mind.

Are we reading the same comics? Can they not see that if they're required to do the narrative heavy-lifting, they're reading a bad story?

It’s a total mess. I thought of writing here that whatever doesn’t agree with their opinions is hateful speech, but then I considered that their opinions are also internally contradictory so… *shrugs*

Ugh, it just gives me a headache.

Damn!

You’re welcome, then, Hiz.

I think I have to finish reading this pile of garbage now. But I’m really not looking forward to it. I might delay it one or two days again, ‘cause I need to prepare my brain for the injury I’ll probably be inflicting on it.

You're doing the Lord's work, and what's more, so I don't have to. Godspeed my friend.

I was never really hyped about anything in Krakoa… It’s more that the disgust is getting to unbearable levels… I expect those stories to be horrible and I keep being proved wrong: they’re worse than horrible.

I thought Hickman would deliver interesting ideas, and I remember liking HoX/PoX despite its issues, assuming that there would be resolution in the main X-Book; boy, was that an enormous disappointment. I think a big reason that I'm enjoying the current X-Men book is precisely because it's not Hickman behind it.

Are you talking about a lagartija?

I grew up being told they’re friendly and to leave them alone. They were quite common in my grandparents’ ranch and there was often one inside the house.

Haha, yeah, exactly! My dad would tell me that they would get in his parents' ranch too and they would shoo them out; of course, growing up the in states, they weren't as common for us, and it wasn't easy calming my sister down so we could take 'em outside.

If we were a different flavour of crazy, we could be the Psycho-lops. But we’re harmless.

Not to some we aren't, apparently.

I don’t know. It’s beautiful, but it looks supernatural. And she doesn’t have a reason for that. Does she?

I like when Jean’s hair gets a life of its own because of her telekinesis: it helps expressing her mood, especially when we consider that mutant powers are often so linked with their emotions. It’s the equivalent of having an extra glow behind Scott’s visor, for instance.

I liked how crazy Elektra’s hair was in Daredevil The Man Without Fear (I think the current one is inspired on that portrayal, just “beautified”), but that’s because she was actually somewhat possessed with something dark in that story.

It’s not case now, is it?

Oh, if Jean's hair were drawn that way? 10/10, five stars, A+.

Man Without Fear is a great book, I've leant it to all my friends and family after they told me they liked the first season of Daredevil. Good point about the supernatural element, I doubt there's anything going on there with the current Elektra; still, this design is a vast improvement over the one a few years ago, where they tried giving her a Netflix-inspired suit.

Do we think our self-awareness comes from the grumpy comments of our spirit animal? Like, even if we can’t actually hear his voice, we feel his sarcasm commenting on our absurdity? ‘Cause if so, I think I’ll give him a big sandwich to munch. I heard he’s learnt to appreciate them now.

We’re here to be absurd, Scott. Eat your damn sub and let us think of crazy adventures and stories you could be sharing with Jean!

Oh, there's definitely low-level sarcastic background frequency to our absurdity.

I used to like it too, but I don’t live near any comic book shops and the ones here also have a different vibe anyway.

I always go to my LCS intending to be there for 10 minutes and before I know it, it's been an hour. Someday I'll have my own personal library.

Yep. But most people aren’t really listening to them.

They'll have to accept the consequences then if they get sick.

Not really. I certainly don’t.

Well, I try - and regularly fail.

I’ll post it later, then.

Thanks, I'll share it with my sister's kids.

I had to google, but yes: I remember him from old SNL episodes. Why?

I always found him to be incredibly funny even when it didn't seem that his audience liked some of his jokes or that some didn't land properly.

Yeah. We better not criticise it too much. It’s possible our parents said the same about theirs, after all.

Haha, I bet you're right.

Here’s the thing: he’s a white, young man, who was raised in Alaska and currently lives in orphanage in Nebraska. Those things are fundamental parts of his character and changing them would change who he is.

While I share none of those traits, I relate to him. So much!



My parents are still alive and I never suffered skull trauma. But I know what it is like not to feel like I belong where I am, to feel alone even when surrounded by people (like the art shows so well here). To want to connect and offer help, only to be met with hostility. To be called an alien. To feel like an alien. To feel the pain, yet choose not to grow bitter because of that…

You see? That’s the power of good art imitating life. In many ways, I have very little in common with Scott. But because he’s such a good character, with so much depth, I (a complex human being) can relate to the character on many levels, not because the writers are trying to write this super human, perfect creature or make him "likeable", but because he is supposed to be human and flawed, because he has an internal logic that reads as real.

That is the Scott Summers I love and miss.

You took the words right out of my mouth, these are exactly the things I think of when I imagine Scott and like you, they're why I love the character so much. He doesn't have to look like me or share most of my experiences to be among my favorite characters.

I'd love to trade Stepford-Scott in for the original model back.

[Hizashi]

Yours too. I called it already. :P



I’m worried that Ben might run the story without gathering more information (‘cause we know he knows the truth, but he’s supposed to be a beyond-reproach journalist and he can't just trust the info Orchis gave him). I’m also worried that Ben might sit on the story because mutants are so “kind”, with Duggan using the fact he didn’t publish Matt’s secret identity as justification.

Both scenarios would character assassinate Ben.

And if that doesn't happen, I'm worried about what could have stopped him. I hope it's not Jean. And I also hope it's not Emma because she's already everywhere again and she doesn't need to be in X-Men too.

If we could have him in-character, he'd have to start digging for the truth, which means he would start asking questions to Krakoa as well, right? That's what I want to see. Maybe that and being away from The Island would finally snap our heroes out of it.

By the way, that last recipe seems like exactly the sort of thing for this weekend, thanks!