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  1. #151
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Agreed he mostly took the initiative to talk out their issues but sometimes it looks like he depends on them understanding without talking but that´s a more modern take on him and in the Krakoa era he´s been very open to the idea of talking even if he looks content.
    Uh… Sometimes I’m reading what Scott is saying in this Krakoa era and I go *blink* *blink* And that’s all I’m going to say about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Those writers are evil, they know what upsets us and choose to do it again on purpose XD but I guess we would be bored if they didn´t do that
    I wouldn’t. I’m old. :D

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    I agree but I like to remember Nathan had two Moms and itÂs important because both loved and cared for him at some point. I hate it when comics make one relationship more important than the other because they care more about one of the characters. They have done it better in recent times but this still can be an issue but mostly I felt Maddie was given a horrible narrative and even if writers planned to have Scott and Jean be together again, I think she should have been allowed to leave with dygnity and to keep her love for her Son at least. I love the fact Jean loves Cable but I dislike how in some writers minds it´s done in comparision with Maddie falling to madness and abusing her Son.
    Not really. Most writers don’t remember that Jean loves Nathan.

    I do agree about Madelyne, though, but at the same time, CC kinda sealed her fate when he created her. She didn’t need to look like Jean, have survived a plane crash on the day Jean died in the moon, and share that crazy intimacy with Scott to the point she knew his favourite breakfast in details, completely out of the blue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    I do it sometimes because it helps me to get they are coming from even if I don´t quite see it in the story, it´s just fun to me to compare if what they wanted to do it´s really what´s been seen on the page.
    That’s fine. The problem is that some fans (not you) start to try push it to what’s canon. And, that, to me is crazy. The work should speak for itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Well Onslaught was the villain of the story so it makes sense he saw him in a negative way, what put force to his words was that he was Charles suppresed dark half so it gave the reader the idea what if he really thinks that way about Scott? How could him? but well Scott of course has his own motives and ways to approach his personal mission and his caring for people but I guess some fans just didn´t see that.
    Well, Onslaught wasn’t just Charles, though… But, yeah, fans come up with crazier stuff all the time that end up forming those weird echo chambers that get repeated over and over…

  2. #152
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlacidMule View Post
    Don't panic tough, remember the teasers are pretty misleading.
    Thanks for sharing. :)

    I'm not panicking. I'm considering that if Jean takes a nap throughout this event, it's probably going to be a good thing. :D

  3. #153
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Because of a conversation I’m having with Lucyinthesky on Jean’s thread, I was thinking about stuff other than the X-Men that Jean and Scott should be doing. And one that really stood out to me is that fact that both Scott’s brothers are really not doing well.

    And that made me think that I’d love to see the couple trying to help them, since, as characters, they’ve been - in theory - motivated by their family lives. Maybe it could start with them just going on little vacations and they become a team from that. Since the X-Factor book is being cancelled, Rachel could even join too.

    So, you’d have Scott, Alex, Gabriel, Jean and Rachel. And adult Nathan could tag along when he’s free.

    This would be such a ridiculously powerful team they could take some huge threats of cosmic proportion on their own.

    I know Jean, Scott and Alex are already characters in another book, but if Woverine can have parallel stories, why can’t they? Especially when those flower gates make travelling instantaneous.

    I’d love to read that, as an ongoing book or a limited series. What do you guys think?
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 06-05-2021 at 03:44 AM.

  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    Those are ugly sweaters, but they wear them so well.
    Join me on the official website for X-men Supreme, home of Marvel Universe 1015. Want a fresh take on X-men? Click below to enter the official home of Marvel at it's most Supreme!


    Or if you want, check out my YouTube channel, Jack's World.

  5. #155
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    Those are ugly sweaters, but they wear them so well. :o
    It's funny 'cause they're not 616 Scott and Jean, but the artist tried to replicate the horrible fashion sense of the artists of the 90s, early 2000s. :D

    I'll try to find the equivalevent of 616 couple and I'll post it later. :)

  6. #156
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Jean and Scott went to Alaska for him to recover from the bomb on his chest. At some point, our girl decides to wear the costume and use the codename Phoenix and our boy is concerned (because of Onslaught and how telepaths can be scary), so he invites the rest of the O5 to spend some days with them and help him get a sense if everything is okay with Jean.

    And here are the sweaters! :D



    A little kick under the table. Oh, those two! :D



    And something too cute, from a simpler era when super heroes were friends. Winning a Captain America teddy bear for your husband is just priceless! :)


  7. #157
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    The girl is smart.
    Yeah, and sometimes Scott can't see what's right in front of him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    None of them deserve any sympathy for the abusive stuff they did to both Scott and Jean.

    Yes, I can be this petty! :P
    Woo, okay. haha, that's fine too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    More than that, if you’re going to come up with something like that, at the very least try to establish it as a mature relationship that evolved to that stage?

    It’d be really hard to sell considering we’re talking about these two particular characters. But if you’re not going to do *anything* with this relationship… why even bother?
    Yeah, I've been on this tangent for a long while now, we're at "C" from "A" and we never saw "B". I doubt they'll ever show that, they want an out, but that just makes me wish we just never stepped into this nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    I know… It’s exhausting, particularly when you’re fan of both characters, because then you feel annoyed for both of them. *sigh*
    I'll be honest, I've always been more a fan of Scott than pretty much any other X-Character, although I like Jean (and Wolverine and Storm and Emma, etc.) well enough. Lately, I've grown to appreciate how much so many of these characters are beloved by fans and I've tried harder to look at things from their perspectives, and I don't want Jean to be thrown under the bus in the fallout. Neither Scott nor Jean should've been put in this situation, the answer was staring Marvel straight in the face: let them be together properly, it's that simple.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  8. #158
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Because of a conversation I’m having with Lucyinthesky on Jean’s thread, I was thinking about stuff other than the X-Men that Jean and Scott should be doing. And one that really stood out to me is that fact that both Scott’s brothers are really not doing well.

    And that made me think that I’d love to see the couple trying to help them, since, as characters, they’ve been - in theory - motivated by their family lives. Maybe it could start with them just going on little vacations and they become a team from that. Since the X-Factor book is being cancelled, Rachel could even join too.

    So, you’d have Scott, Alex, Gabriel, Jean and Rachel. And adult Nathan could tag along when he’s free.

    This would be such a ridiculously powerful team they could take some huge threats of cosmic proportion on their own.

    I know Jean, Scott and Alex are already characters in another book, but if Woverine can have parallel stories, why can’t they? Especially when those flower gates make travelling instantaneous.

    I’d love to read that, as an ongoing book or a limited series. What do you guys think?
    Yes, absolutely, the Summers-Grey family road-trip book with time travel, space travel, dimension travel, the whole nine yards.

    That reminds me that I bought the Cyclops and Phoenix trade but I never read it because I think I wanted to go back and read the Jott Wedding books too. The art by Gene Ha for that first mini-series though, I mean, damn. Absolutely fantastic.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  9. #159
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Yeah, and sometimes Scott can't see what's right in front of him.
    Even back in the O5 days, he actually could see that Jean loved him. I think he just couldn’t make himself believe it, because of the trauma of losing his family and those two abusive monsters who came later, the fear of loss, fear of rejection and because he was very, very afraid of his power and hurting her.

    Things between them have always been really serious, really intense. They weren’t just hormonal teenagers lusting for each other. I’ll post some panels of the beginning of their relationship later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Woo, okay. haha, that's fine too.
    I’m joking about the art on that panel and the pettiness, but I’m dead serious about the abuse. The disregard for consent and the mind-games that both Emma and Logan inflicted on Scott and Jean is downright abusive, no matter how much we can understand their behaviour. Just because it’s human and relatable, it doesn’t mean it’s right.

    It’s 2021. It’s past time for us fans to start recognising it for what it was.

    But anyway, back to the joking, petty part: after they meddled and caused so much trouble in Jean and Scott’s psyches and relationship, they can survive witnessing one passionate kiss. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Yeah, I've been on this tangent for a long while now, we're at "C" from "A" and we never saw "B". I doubt they'll ever show that, they want an out, but that just makes me wish we just never stepped into this nonsense.
    I’m also hoping that revelation on the last issue of Marauders means what it seems to mean and that it is an indication that they want an out, because the whole thing should have never existed and it’s just creating a bigger mess.

    It’s re-strengthening all of those echo chambers that many times don’t even have anything to do with the actual 616 continuity. It’s exhausting…

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I'll be honest, I've always been more a fan of Scott than pretty much any other X-Character, although I like Jean (and Wolverine and Storm and Emma, etc.) well enough. Lately, I've grown to appreciate how much so many of these characters are beloved by fans and I've tried harder to look at things from their perspectives, and I don't want Jean to be thrown under the bus in the fallout. Neither Scott nor Jean should've been put in this situation, the answer was staring Marvel straight in the face: let them be together properly, it's that simple.
    I love talking to fans of other characters. They always seem to offer an interesting perspective of them. And there are many characters who just aren’t super special to me, but I like them too. :)

    I know some fans of Scott hate Jean, but if you talk to them it’s mostly because of AUs or the films or stuff the has nothing to do with what’s written in the actual 616 comics.

    And Jean’s fans hate him because of the affair, what he did to Madelyne (their words, not mine) and stuff that has to do with bad writing and unfair editorial decisions.

    If you read the actual comics, you’ll see that they’ve always been a great couple, and both of them were great partners for the other. It’s fine if someone don’t like them together or simply would prefer to see them in another relationship. But there’s no reason to hate the other character. And there’s no reason for Marvel to throw any of them under the bus if they want to break them up.

    It would just be a great shame because great couples like that don’t grow on trees… But Marvel clearly has no idea of the treasures they own… *shrug*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Yes, absolutely, the Summers-Grey family road-trip book with time travel, space travel, dimension travel, the whole nine yards.

    That reminds me that I bought the Cyclops and Phoenix trade but I never read it because I think I wanted to go back and read the Jott Wedding books too. The art by Gene Ha for that first mini-series though, I mean, damn. Absolutely fantastic.
    Yes! All those travels and some good old family fun. :)

    The idea came to me because I doubt Duggan will have time to give Scott some panels to try to help his brothers. And I’m sure that a non-zombie-Krakoan Jean would want to help too. I think it’d also be interesting to see Rachel and Alex interacting with Gabriel. So, yeah, it got me thinking about how it could work in the comics and I really liked the idea. I'm a big softie for family stuff. :)

    Now, before reading the wedding issue, I suggest you read Uncanny X-Men #308, where she proposes. It's also great. :)

    Honestly, the wedding issue is my favourite comic book of all time. :)
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 06-06-2021 at 09:42 AM.

  10. #160
    BANNED Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    None of them deserve any sympathy for the abusive stuff they did to both Scott and Jean.

    Yes, I can be this petty! :P
    That is nothing on what Jean suffered. Yeah both were abusive and fandom shouldn't let it go just because of "love"

  11. #161
    Astonishing Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Default That hidden first kiss! :D

    X-Men #32, Bobby's 18th birthday party.

    Warren has kinda given up on chasing Jean and he's starting to go out with Candy (though, still carrying a torch for our Red), Bobby and Hank are with their respective girlfriends, so as they're dancing, Jean is wondering if Scott is actually into her or just being nice. Some stuff happens and after they deal with the mess, they go on to a strall on Central Park.

    Litte note: I love that the artist protrayed their height difference when they were dancing. Even though Jean is likely to be wearing high heels, she's still considerably shorter than he is. Most of the times, they draw her way too tall. She's supposed to be 5'6''!



    In the issue that follows, they're going on an adventure together and they're displaying what would become their signature: fighting-holding-hands (a panel of this issue was posted in this thread already). But it doesn't seem like they're really a couple yet.

    In fact, if you keep reading it on order, you get to X-Men #60 and then you read this:



    Wait... What? When did they become a couple??? :D

    No one really knew! :D

    So, after Jean dies in The Dark Phoenix Saga, CC decides to finally answer this question and he chooses Bobby's 18th birthday to finally show their first kiss! It's a retcon, but it works:



    Now, the thing that really strikes me here is that Jean is probably 18 and Scott is 19 by then (Stan Lee said in a letter that he was the oldest, though a later writer considered Hank the oldest).

    And, boy, the term they're using is "love"! They're not just thinking it. They're actually confessing it to each other.

    I know it was the 60s and people got married younger back then, but still... unlike their classmates and their girlfriends, their feelings for each other and the relationship they'd have are really super serious from the get go.

    Which, you know, makes sense when you consider who those characters are... It had to start serious. And it remains like this throughout their lives.

    Some people really are lucky enough to find "the one" when they're super young. :)

  12. #162
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Even back in the O5 days, he actually could see that Jean loved him. I think he just couldn’t make himself believe it, because of the trauma of losing his family and those two abusive monsters who came later, the fear of loss, fear of rejection and because he was very, very afraid of his power and hurting her.

    Things between them have always been really serious, really intense. They weren’t just hormonal teenagers lusting for each other. I’ll post some panels of the beginning of their relationship later.
    Yeah, I guess he did see it but wouldn't let himself accept it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    I’m joking about the art on that panel and the pettiness, but I’m dead serious about the abuse. The disregard for consent and the mind-games that both Emma and Logan inflicted on Scott and Jean is downright abusive, no matter how much we can understand their behaviour. Just because it’s human and relatable, it doesn’t mean it’s right.

    It’s 2021. It’s past time for us fans to start recognising it for what it was.

    But anyway, back to the joking, petty part: after they meddled and caused so much trouble in Jean and Scott’s psyches and relationship, they can survive witnessing one passionate kiss. :P
    That's true, understanding what was done in context still doesn't excuse it.

    I just remember thinking how funny that was, like man, they're really kicking them when their down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    I’m also hoping that revelation on the last issue of Marauders means what it seems to mean and that it is an indication that they want an out, because the whole thing should have never existed and it’s just creating a bigger mess.

    It’s re-strengthening all of those echo chambers that many times don’t even have anything to do with the actual 616 continuity. It’s exhausting…
    I want so badly for this nonsense to end; and you're right, Marvel didn't care about the ramifications regarding how these characters are perceived individually and in the dreaded triangle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    I love talking to fans of other characters. They always seem to offer an interesting perspective of them. And there are many characters who just aren’t super special to me, but I like them too.

    I know some fans of Scott hate Jean, but if you talk to them it’s mostly because of AUs or the films or stuff the has nothing to do with what’s written in the actual 616 comics.

    And Jean’s fans hate him because of the affair, what he did to Madelyne (their words, not mine) and stuff that has to do with bad writing and unfair editorial decisions.

    If you read the actual comics, you’ll see that they’ve always been a great couple, and both of them were great partners for the other. It’s fine if someone don’t like them together or simply would prefer to see them in another relationship. But there’s no reason to hate the other character. And there’s no reason for Marvel to throw any of them under the bus if they want to break them up.

    It would just be a great shame because great couples like that don’t grow on trees… But Marvel clearly has no idea of the treasures they own… *shrug*
    Yeah, that's the right way of looking at it; damage is being done to these characters and for what? Cheap drama? Bad writing and short-sighted editorial meddling? Where's the quality control?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Yes! All those travels and some good old family fun.

    The idea came to me because I doubt Duggan will have time to give Scott some panels to try to help his brothers. And I’m sure that a non-zombie-Krakoan Jean would want to help too. I think it’d also be interesting to see Rachel and Alex interacting with Gabriel. So, yeah, it got me thinking about how it could work in the comics and I really liked the idea. I'm a big softie for family stuff.

    Now, before reading the wedding issue, I suggest you read Uncanny X-Men #308, where she proposes. It's also great.

    Honestly, the wedding issue is my favourite comic book of all time.
    I've begun collecting the Uncanny X-Men Omni's, I currently have the first three volumes, plus I just ordered the Inferno Omnibus. There's a lot of reading and rereading I gotta do, I read X-Men all out of order and the first run I read completely was actually Morrison's New X-Men.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  13. #163
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post

    Now, before reading the wedding issue, I suggest you read Uncanny X-Men #308, where she proposes. It's also great.

    Honestly, the wedding issue is my favourite comic book of all time.
    I remember the wedding issue - the week it hit the shelves, my local comic shop had an actual 3 tiered wedding cake and was giving slices to any subscribers who either picked up stuff that day or had an empty pull slot (for those who didn't have anything that week). I don't think they did that for any other comics couple - not Lois and Clark, not Peter and MJ, although I admit that Reed and Sue was before my time, and possibly before the store was a thing as well.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  14. #164
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    I think it was 1966 when Reed and Sue married. So I would seriously doubt their were any comic shop celebrations going on. Nicole Miller really deigned Jean's wedding dress. That wedding was a pretty big deal. Maybe not Lois and Clark big since they had a tv series built around them, but pretty damn big at the time.

  15. #165
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancer View Post
    I think it was 1966 when Reed and Sue married. So I would seriously doubt their were any comic shop celebrations going on. Nicole Miller really deigned Jean's wedding dress. That wedding was a pretty big deal. Maybe not Lois and Clark big since they had a tv series built around them, but pretty damn big at the time.
    I hadn't even been born yet in 1966, and I think the comics the couple who ran the store would have been interested in at the time most likely involved andromorphic animals and oversized hammers being drawn out of impossibly small spaces.
    Dark does not mean deep.

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