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  1. #241
    BANNED Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhaenylis View Post
    I think I read somewhere that Kelly prefers Scemma

    Between Duggan and Ewing I admit that I would prefer the first because I don't really know what Ewing thinks of Jott
    Kelly Thompson is a big Emma fan stand and prefers Scott/Emma

  2. #242
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    You posted a few minutes before I did, while I was replying to Hizashi. I posted the reply and I didn’t see yours. Sorry, I didn’t do it right away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    No Doug doesn´t know but in one scene when Xavier asked him to make the krakoan language he left a part of Warlock on the island and one of sinister secrets talked about Warlock comunicating with the Phalanx so we will see what else they do.

    It happened on the HoX/PoX story and the image is from the crucible issue of X-men.
    Well, I had the feeling Dough said something extra about it in X of Swords. He didn’t actually. The dialogue I was thinking about happens in New Mutants #13, but it’s not actually really revealing:

    spoilers:
    - Doug: I... no... I feel like I'm not pulling my weight and this... this tournament, it hasn't even begun. Everyone else is out, questing for their swords and mine... is... you. Which I suppose we're not keeping a secret anymore -- not that we were doing a good job of hiding it... But this feels like there's something deeper at play. Some Saturnyne stratagem. I mean, why me? Why you?
    end of spoilers

    I'm not sure why I got this feeling that there was something there. Maybe I was actually intrigued by Saturnyne's intentions, not the Doug/Warlock/Krakoa angle... I don't know. I'm old. :D

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    I think Rachel is a little old for that but them sharing their ideas for the future or just talking about X-factor and Quiet ciuncil meetings would be nice for me.
    She is a little old for that, but if that’s the idea the writers have of what adult mothers and daughters do when they’re together, I’d still take it. And it would melt my heart because I’m silly like that. :D

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    In a way yes but it still isn´t exactly that.
    Yeah, we don’t really have a good word to describe it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    I think it was implied the bug was put there by Onslaught and he said it was to destabilize Krakoa from the inside by lowering their inhibitions and making them way more daring and violent but also unstable, that´s why Legion said he only trust Kurt because he already took the bug from him but most probably the others still have it on their mind.
    I didn’t get the feeling David implied Onslaught was the one who put the bug there, actually. I think one could even argue that bug comes with the Cerebro back-up…

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Yes I didn´t understand this either if the backup is safe on Krakoa and their body is made by the five, why would dying on otherworld affect them? unless the magic there messes with the ressurrection process someway?
    That’s the question: is the mind in the body somewhat connected to Cerebro? We know Cerebro can’t actually make a constant, live back-up and memories are lost when death happens between the back-ups. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t a form of faint connection there. Especially when you consider that the death in Otherwold affected the entire database. If the database is actually isolated this shouldn’t happen. Even considering magic in the equation.

    Now, it’s possible the writers didn’t think about it at all. They just wanted the tournament to have more of a high stakes feeling to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Looks like it, the Rockslide was completely changed no matter the backup so it got corrupted and this even considering there´s a loss of memories between ressurrections. My problem is that the writting is treating the characters as if they were tapes that can be uploaded on their bodies, which would make them clones because that´s exactly how the are made in the MU instead of people with souls, so how or when do they bring back that soul? Charles has the memories in cerebro not the souls and in way of X there´s implied something of themselves was lost between ressurrections.
    Exactly: the soul is a concept that exists in the Marvel Universe. It really does exist, it’s not a matter of belief, like in our world.

    And again: would the characters know they don’t have a soul? If Jean believes she’s Jean and she has all the memories of Jean and all the opinions and tastes… would she be able to tell the difference? Maybe.



    I don’t know, Jeannie, maybe it’s not X-Force. Maybe your internal compass was tampered the moment you set foot in that island.
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 06-14-2021 at 01:54 AM.

  3. #243
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Domino wanted to keep a memory but lost it between ressurrection and this got Logan´s attention and was kind of worried but he has yet to investigate this.
    We’ve seen characters acting differently after their resurrections, but I believe Domino is the most interesting case study so far.

    X-Force #8:
    spoilers:
    - Colossus: Do you ever think about... another kind of sleep?
    - Domino: Sure. Yeah. I could just keep swimming.
    - Colossus: We could just keep swimming. And then I would go over to metal. And I would hold you and let the deep swallow us up. We'd come back new. Refreshed. Unburdened of all these scars and terrors.
    - Domino: Sounds nice... but no.
    - Colossus: I know it feels wrong, but there's something right on the other side of it. We could resurrect without that part of us. We wouldn't have to remember.
    - Domino: But I want to remember. I need to remember.

    Later, as she's dying in his arms:

    - Domino: When I come back... I want to keep it all. All the pain. I want to remember everything. Do you promise me, Peter? I won't die on you unless you promise.
    - Colossus: I... promise.
    - Domino: Thank you.
    end of spoilers

    The very next issue, in X-Force#9.

    spoilers:
    - Domino: Sage? Hair down. Out of the office. I barely recognise you.
    - Sage: The... feeling is mutual.
    - Domino: I'm a new woman.
    - Sage: May I ask what it felt like? To be resurrected?
    - Domino: It felt like... waking up with a hangover? But in a good way. Like a Saturday morning hangover, after a solid twelve hours of sleep, sun on your face, coffee brewing.
    - Sage: I'm sorry to pry. But the nightmare you've been living --
    - Domino: Gone. I don't know how to explain it except-- that it might as well have happened to someone else.
    - Sage: Pause. You're implying your memories of South Korea have been erased?
    - Domino: I'm aware of what happened, but yeah, basically. That slot in my brain is blank.
    - Sage: I don't mean to be contrary, but that doesn't calculate. You told me--
    - Domino: It must have been what I wanted, okay? We're supposed to choose our best selves, right? Guess I decided I didn't need all that poison inside me.
    end of spoilers


    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    It´s not amnesty or immunity is more like legally speaking all mutants can claim to be citizens of Krakoa, even if they don´t live there and so they can be judged by Krakoa´s laws instead of those from other countries.
    But that’s only true for the countries that recognise Krakoa. And, from the perspective of their laws, it makes a big difference.

    Amnesty means everything is pardoned or not considered during a time. Diplomatic immunity is a complete different beast.

    In House of X #1:

    spoilers:
    - Scott: You're a smart man, Doctor Richards. I know you know what amnesty means.
    - Reed: I do. I also know that Sabretooth broke any number of laws in the last hour, including no small number of injuries to guard and high probability that some of those injuries are significant, possibly fatal. Are you really offering amnesty from that?
    - Scott: It's upsetting. I know. But I'm afraid we are. New beginnings demand a wide berth.
    end of spoilers

    In House of X #3:

    spoilers:
    - Judge: Enlighten me.
    - Emma: Well, that's certainly the correct position to assume. What's going to happen is that you're going to surrender Mr. Creed to me.
    - One of the Cuckoos: Sabretooth, Mum.
    - Emma: Yes, thank you. Sabretooth. You're going to give him to me because -- in anticipation of Krakoa becoming a soverign nation -- all Krakoans on United States soil -- natural born or otherwise -- now enjoy the privilege of diplomatic immunity. A recent gift from your State Department.
    end of spoilers

    So what is it? Amnesty or diplomatic immunity?

    This is the definition of amnesty:

    1. a general pardon, esp for offences against a government
    2. a period during which a law is suspended to allow offenders to admit their crime without fear of prosecution
    3. (Law) law a pardon granted by the Crown or Executive and effected by statute

    In the FF/X-men mess they characterise it as diplomatic immunity as well and I think it's actually more precise if that's an ongoing privilege that mutants enjoy now.

    And it's also way more bonkers that *any* country would accept it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Yes and I think other council members are just waiting for him to give them a reason to take him out for good XD
    Some of them, maybe. Charles and Erik? I’m not so sure. They need Sinister because of the resurrection protocols.

  4. #244
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Default Time for some gushing, from The Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix:

    Some of the reasons they’re epic together:




  5. #245
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Default And some of that physical affection, from the same story:

    If you have read the story, you know Scott is probably stinking at that point, but our Red doesn't seem to mind. Now *that* is love! :D




  6. #246
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Default One more!

    This is one of the reasons why: I love Scott Summers and Jean loves him and they’re awesome together!


  7. #247

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    There were some nice Scott/Jean references in this week's X-Men Monday by AIPT. It bodes well for how these two will be portrayed in the upcoming X-Men title under Duggan. Here is a snippet of the exchange by JDW.

    AIPT: OK, X-Fan marvelfan1992 asked if the idea of having Scott and Jean lead an X-Men team was developed in the early stages of Jonathan’s planning or if this was an idea that came together later on.

    Jordan: Not specifically, like, “And then step 27, Scott and Jean lead the X-Men.” Like, no, not like that. I mean, I’m sure that Jonathan was like, “Well, obviously at some point we’ll have an X-Men team and the natural choice to lead would be this person, this person, or that person,” you know? But I think the reason it actually turned to the two of them — much like I’ve said this a bunch of times when we talk about the way things have developed — Jonathan’s plans shift to accommodate what everybody else is doing and to incorporate what everybody else is doing. I think that a big part of why Scott and Jean are leading the X-Men together is, well, to be fair, Jonathan started the family-oriented concept of Cyclops in his current life.

    And then Gerry really ran with it in Cable. We got to see Scott and Jean as a couple — well, as parents really, and then as a couple doing stuff. And I think that the way that played out in X of Swords is what really sealed the deal as the two of them are making decisions based on the fact that their son is in danger and their moral compass is what lead them to say there needs to be an X-Men and we’re making it happen. And so I think that’s the real reason. And I think in a sense that could have just as easily, you know, if the stories of the last couple of years had gone differently, I think there could have been a version where it’s just Jean doing it, or it’s just Scott doing it, or whoever — Colossus is like, “There has to be an X-Men.”

    And I mean, again, it makes sense that it’s Scott, because Jonathan put a lot of focus on Scott at the beginning of his run. And so I think in that sense, yeah, I think he always knew Scott’s going to be the one to do stuff because he’s a big deal in the history of the X-Men, but the way it happened, and the fact that it’s him and Jean together for sure is because of how it played out in X of Swords.
    Join me on the official website for X-men Supreme, home of Marvel Universe 1015. Want a fresh take on X-men? Click below to enter the official home of Marvel at it's most Supreme!


    Or if you want, check out my official publishing blog.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    This is one of the reasons why: I love Scott Summers and Jean loves him and they’re awesome together!

    More great books that I don't think I've looked at in 20 years. I've looked at them since I read the series when it first came out, but has to be near or over 20 years. I remember reading, maybe in MARVEL VISION, a mid- late 90s previews book, that a third limited series was in the plans for them. Obviously, never happened and I don't remember reading any specifics regarding what it was about. Who knows, but I do know that I loved the first 2.

    I used to read people say that Lobdell didn't know how to write these 2 characters or them as a couple. If the first limited series is supposed to be getting these characters wrong, you can sign me up for getting them wrong. The guy in that limited series. THAT'S who Cyclops is supposed to be. IMO, of course.

  9. #249
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    I only fainted once and it was really quick. People around me were more scared than I was. It was actually during one of the few LARPG sessions and they weren't sure if I was acting or not. I really wasn't.
    I bet Scott takes dehydration very seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Lucy and I have been wondering about it: just how big the influence of Way of X will prove itself to be on Krakoa's society? Will it be just something the characters in other books will mention (to be fair, most writers are referencing the work of other books) or will it actually have a more profound impact?

    ItÂ’s hard to predict at this point.
    There's no way of knowing, they released the book way too late so who knows what they're doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    IsnÂ’t that the truth?

    But then again, I know thatÂ’s my perspective because I *am* the weird one. IÂ’ve always been weird, since I was a little girl.
    Maybe we're weird for not being their brand of weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Daredevil *is* my favourite Marvel hero. ItÂ’s unfair to compare him to Jean and Scott because heÂ’s had his solo book for decades, but yeah, heÂ’s my favourite.

    And hereÂ’s the thing: I had read *everything* Daredevil until WaidÂ’s run. But, when he moved DD to San Francisco, I just couldnÂ’t stomach anymore. Matt Murdock read like a man having a midlife crisisÂ… I lost my patience. So I decided I would wait for Waid to leave, then IÂ’d catch up and go on reading the book. But they turned Matt into a prosecutor and the idea was so nonsensical (so insulting even to the character) that I just couldnÂ’t bother.

    And now heÂ’s not Daredevil.

    You see? I really miss him. But I donÂ’t feel compelled enough to go back. Not yet. I *think* that if Marvel ever allow him to wear his own uniform and codename again, I can give it a try.

    Sad timesÂ… But like I said here, sometimes you really need to take a long break.
    I remember liking Waid's early stuff, I wasn't picking up single issues at the time, but I dropped the trades before he went to SF. Waid is a good writer, I think he just lost his narrative as it went on.

    And yeah, it is absolutely nonsensical to make Matt a prosecutor, talk about missing the character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    ItÂ’s a complicated issue. And like I said, I think a lot about it in real life terms too.

    The whole penal system for me doesnÂ’t make any sense if we donÂ’t somehow address reforming the criminals. And I just canÂ’t think of an effective way to do it.

    I understand we canÂ’t leave people who harm other people running free. I understand we need laws and trials and jails. But we need something more as well.

    ItÂ’s very complex and very hard to estimate absolute rights and absolute wrongs. But the idea of actual reforming someoneÂ… It really sounds like a dream, you know?
    Yeah, it's very complex - it should be written about with some care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    We have like a social contract. We understand that for us to be part of that society, we have to abide to its rules. The problem isÂ… we donÂ’t really have an option, right? If I donÂ’t like the laws of the country where I live, I canÂ’t really go live in another. ThereÂ’s a matter of citizenship involved.

    Now, IÂ’m going to guess that you and I donÂ’t have a problem following the rules. We get all of us have to adapt and live with rules we donÂ’t like and maybe try to change them. But thatÂ’s not true for all people. What if a person is a true anarchist in their heart? What if they donÂ’t recognise authority and governments? We assume they have to integrate just because they were born in the same place that we did. But what if they donÂ’t agree? No one asked them and they donÂ’t have a choice.

    So the whole point of law-breaking and consent, ultimately, is forced. It doesnÂ’t feel forced to us because we accept it. But to criminals? TheyÂ’re always forced. So where is the actual line that we canÂ’t ethically cross? WhatÂ’s written in the law? IÂ’d say itÂ’s a good compromise. But if we accept that compromise, no super hero should be meddling in crime-fightning without actually becoming part of law enforcement and abiding by the rules and laws they have to answer to.

    You see? ItÂ’s complicated.
    Oh yeah, seems like nearly every superhero is a vigilante and is constantly breaking the law.

    I will say, I think that there are certainly some things that are universally morally wrong, that wouldn't be tolerated in any society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Well, itÂ’s a public discussion so everyone can jump in. If they do so in a respectful way, it would make me truly happy.

    DonÂ’t be shy, guys. Join us!

    But if theyÂ’re happy to just be reading too, I donÂ’t mind keeping the conversation between the three of us either. ItÂ’s been really nice!
    Yeah, it has, we should see more of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Yeah. ThatÂ’s what IÂ’m hoping. Pretty wallpaper is not so bad, after all, considering everything bad that can happen instead. Or so I keep trying to remind myself of.

    Hopefully the next writers will want to see her as an actually character and will want to keep Jean and Scott together, even if itÂ’s only because of the movies.

    IÂ’m not sure they can survive as a couple given the setting we currently have, but I truly hope so.

    IÂ’d love a new Cyclops/Phoenix book. IÂ’d prefer a Cyclops/Marvel Woman book, but IÂ’d even be happy with a Cyclops/Marvel Girl one at this point.
    Cyclops/Marvel Woman sounds good, lets make it happen Marvel!
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  10. #250
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Agreed but I think from all these critical issues only the situation with Reed and Mystique the others were just reactions to Krakoa´s existence and Sinister situation is pretty much a case of "I know you are going to betray me so I will keep you close to see what you are doing"
    I really just don't want the fall to happen and be left feeling like "y'all let this happen!".

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    I like Kelly Thompson because she´s been good at writting Luke Cage and Jessica Jones stories even with her as the protagonist Luko got some nice writting but for a mini of Jean and Scott I would pick Al Ewing or Duggan and Valerio Schiti from the current X-office. I will have to think about other names, I like a lot of writers but I don´t know how they would do at adventure/romance. The thing I liked the most about the original Cyclops/Phoenix story was that it was an epic story that still was just about a family trying their best to live their life.
    Ewing would be interesting, I read some of his Immortal Hulk and really liked it.

    I'm a sucker for family/brotherhood/sibling stories, I'm guaranteed to try something if it includes that as a main hook.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  11. #251
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Those Cyclops/Phoenix books have amazing artwork.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  12. #252
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancer View Post
    More great books that I don't think I've looked at in 20 years. I've looked at them since I read the series when it first came out, but has to be near or over 20 years. I remember reading, maybe in MARVEL VISION, a mid- late 90s previews book, that a third limited series was in the plans for them. Obviously, never happened and I don't remember reading any specifics regarding what it was about. Who knows, but I do know that I loved the first 2.

    I used to read people say that Lobdell didn't know how to write these 2 characters or them as a couple. If the first limited series is supposed to be getting these characters wrong, you can sign me up for getting them wrong. The guy in that limited series. THAT'S who Cyclops is supposed to be. IMO, of course.
    The Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix was written by Peter Milligan. Being fair, it's very centered on Essex/Sinister, actually, not really on Scott and Jean.

    But I was talking about cute stuff about the couple that we could find there. :)

    I don't really want to get into a discussion of how wrong later writers did/could get him, because I don't want to annoy anyone here who might disagree.

    But those panels about Scott, in my opinion, represent one of the strongest core-characteristics of his: the man suffers from a number of tragedies and abuse, but he doesn't give in, he doesn't let them shape him. He manages to heal (a little crooked like a broken bone often does, and with lots of scars, sure) and remain a good person.

    There's true strength in this and it's certainly something that Jean truly admires about him.

  13. #253
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I bet Scott takes dehydration very seriously.
    I wasn’t dehydrated. And it wasn't like I was sweating under the hot sun either. It was hot and damp, but it was during the evening. We had been standing for quite a while (because we were roleplaying) and one of the leaders of the vampires were babbling about their politics. I couldn’t have moved away (because my character had to be there) and go sit on a place with better air flow, when I felt my blood pressure dropping. I thought I could wait a bit longer because it didn’t feel too bad, actually. But, no… And that was the only time it happened. But it was super fast too. I came back almost right away.

    But I’m sure Scott would have found a way to scold me! :D

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    There's no way of knowing, they released the book way too late so who knows what they're doing.
    It is long, but this interview gives us a better idea:

    (Spoiler alert!!!!)

    https://www.xplainthexmen.com/2021/0...pents-in-eden/

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Maybe we're weird for not being their brand of weird.
    Everyone belongs to a brand of weird. But you have brands like Coca-Cola and Pepsi that take most of the market. :D

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I remember liking Waid's early stuff, I wasn't picking up single issues at the time, but I dropped the trades before he went to SF. Waid is a good writer, I think he just lost his narrative as it went on.
    I liked some aspects of his run. But the overall tone started to wear me down. Frankly, though, if I had been feeling better towards Marvel comics in general, I might have endured. But I was really saturated at that point.

    And, personally, when things get like that, I really have to walk away for a while and detox. I mean, the way I see it, if it’s annoying you more than entertaining (or, at least, intriguing you), there’s just no point.

    I know that, right now, no matter how awesome it might be, Elektra being Daredevil *will* annoy me. So I think it’s not the right time to jump back in. But I will, eventually (because I love Matt Murdock), and I’ll probably be more fair about the writing at that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    And yeah, it is absolutely nonsensical to make Matt a prosecutor, talk about missing the character.
    It is.

    Either you don’t understand a thing about the character or you have a very naďve idea of the juridical system, particularly because of the way it is organised in the US, in which the public officers are elected (I don't mean to criticise the system, but having elections in mix does affect how it works).

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Yeah, it's very complex - it should be written about with some care.

    Oh yeah, seems like nearly every superhero is a vigilante and is constantly breaking the law.

    I will say, I think that there are certainly some things that are universally morally wrong, that wouldn't be tolerated in any society.
    I agree. But when we move from ethics to morals we get into a different - and even bigger - discussion. :D

    And I think engaging in these considerations is a wonderful exercise even if we can’t get to a absolute answer that solves all those issues. But I can’t really expect any of that to be reflected in Marvel comics, unfortunately.

    Although, I have to say, Si Spurrier seems to be considering some of those questions and translating them to his writing in a way that won't bore most readers. I'm not gushing here. I'm cautiously saying I see he's bringing some of those considerations to the table and it's needed and interesting. I'm still somewhat worried about what Kurt's conclusions will be in the end. But we'll have to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Cyclops/Marvel Woman sounds good, lets make it happen Marvel!
    It won’t happen. Judging by the last X-Men Monday, Jean is stuck with Marvel Girl… :(

    I’d still read Cyclops/Marvel Girl, though.
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 06-14-2021 at 11:48 PM.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    The Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix was written by Peter Milligan. Being fair, it's very centered on Essex/Sinister, actually, not really on Scott and Jean.

    But I was talking about cute stuff about the couple that we could find there.

    I don't really want to get into a discussion of how wrong later writers did/could get him, because I don't want to annoy anyone here who might disagree.

    But those panels about Scott, in my opinion, represent one of the strongest core-characteristics of his: the man suffers from a number of tragedies and abuse, but he doesn't give in, he doesn't let them shape him. He manages to heal (a little crooked like a broken bone often does, and with lots of scars, sure) and remain a good person.

    There's true strength in this and it's certainly something that Jean truly admires about him.

    Just to clarify, I'm aware that Milligan wrote this series. That's why I specifically said first limited series with Lobdell. The one with Sinister's origin was the second. At that point, Milligan really hadn't written Scott or Jean whereas Lobdell had on a regular basis.

  15. #255
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancer View Post
    Just to clarify, I'm aware that Milligan wrote this series. That's why I specifically said first limited series with Lobdell. The one with Sinister's origin was the second. At that point, Milligan really hadn't written Scott or Jean whereas Lobdell had on a regular basis.
    Sure. I imagined you had read it, actually. I just thought I should mention who wrote the second, in case someone else read your message and assumed the story was written by Lodbell too.

    Sorry, I should have written it in a clearer manner, since I was quoting you.

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