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  1. #286
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Default About the companionship aspect of their relationship - part 1

    Back in X-Factor #12, they are not a couple yet. But this happens:





    Indeed he goes with her to her sister's house.

    Once they're there, Jean hears someone left a threatening message on Sara's answering machine and a bomb explodes.

    This makes Scott think, for the first time, that maybe the reason he can't contact Madelyne isn't because she's upset with him, maybe she's hiding, feeling threatened because someone found out about her connection to him (and the fact their son could be a mutant).

    So Scott goes to Alaska to look for them. He's really messed up again, torn between his duty to his family and his love for Jean. But he's trying to do the right thing (with Jean's blessing).

    But he can't find any trace they ever existed (even the record of Nathan's birth disappeared from the hospital). And the police finds the body of a redhead that was badly decomposed but could have been Madelyne.

    He buries the body as if she had been Madelyne and believes both she and Nathan are dead.

  2. #287
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Default About the companionship aspect of their relationship - part 2

    Then, in X-factor #27, the very next day after Jean and Scott, finally, get back together (kindly posted by Lucas 35 - post #50 of this thread), and just after the kiss I posted in #268, a footage of Madelyne appears saying: "Scotty, wherever you are, I wish you all the best. Find our son. Keep him safe. Raise him well."

    He had burried a body and believed both Madelyine and Nathan were dead. But that footage was evidence that Nathan had been kidnapped, so he could still be alive. Scott, of course, was filled with guilt and went crazy again.

    And poor Jean, after she finally got him back, was having to deal with all that drama again.




    So Jean finally visits her parents to let them know she's alive after all and learns Sara and her kids aren't just hidding but really missing; she tells them she won't be visiting them not to put them at risk but she commits to finding Sara and her family. Then she gets back to Ship and this happens:



    And after this emotional roler coaster day, Jean is enjoying spending time with the kids until our favourite ray-of-sunshine gives her the news:


  3. #288
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Default About the companionship aspect of their relationship - part 3

    So Scott leaves. He's at the airport, trying to get to Dallas to find clues about Madelyne, the X-Men or Nathan. But he hears on the news that Ship is moving on its own and the X-Factor is in trouble. Even though he's conflicted, he decides not to abandon his friends and he finds a way to get there fast, despite the traffic jams caused by the holiday.



    Her words have an impact on him and, when he addresses the press later about Ship, it feels like he's more emotionally committed to the team, instead of just helping them out because they asked him.

  4. #289
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Default About the companionship aspect of their relationship - part 4

    Then on the next issue (X-Factor #29) she gives him another dose of tough love - literally! :D

    After quite some emotional turmoil throughout the issue, it ends like this:



    Note: she didn't really kill them. Not directly, at least.

    --
    Bonus: holding-hands-before-some-serious-ass-kicking! :D


  5. #290
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Default About the companionship aspect of their relationship - part 5

    So they fight Freedom Force and Destiny gives Scott a clue about Nathan. And he's about to leave on his own again, regardless of the fact that it could be a trap. But this time Jean is having none of that.



    The rest is history: they get to the orphanage, she recognises Nathan and falls absolutely in love with the baby. They don't get to actually rescue the baby until after Inferno, but the mother-son bond was formed in that very first meeting and, later, the three of them get to be a family for a little while.
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 06-24-2021 at 11:52 PM.

  6. #291
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    @Hizashi: sorry, I tried to post the panels bigger so it would be possible to read them well, but it hid my reply to your message. It's back on post #283.
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 06-24-2021 at 11:42 PM.

  7. #292
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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  8. #293
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post
    Oh, look at them doing stuff that couples do! :D

    I'll look for some holding hands during Krakoan time. I think most of the instances happens in the same issue, but I suppose it's fair to show some more recent images too.

    Thanks for sharing, juan678! It's Notos's art, so I suppose this will be part of Cable #11, right?

    Anyway, it warmed my silly heart! :)

  9. #294

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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post
    Very sweet!

    I suspect this is going to be in the final pages of Cable. I still hope they get a chance to keep being a family. That really has brought out the best in both of them.
    Join me on the official website for X-men Supreme, home of Marvel Universe 1015. Want a fresh take on X-men? Click below to enter the official home of Marvel at it's most Supreme!


    Or if you want, check out my official publishing blog.

  10. #295
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    Very sweet! :o

    I suspect this is going to be in the final pages of Cable. I still hope they get a chance to keep being a family. That really has brought out the best in both of them. :o
    Starting their family was the reason why they stayed in Alaska, taking a break from the X-Men life, just before The Twelve and Apocalypse's merging with Scott.

    I wish we had seen more of their family life in this Krakoan era. I hope Duggan makes these two last issues of Cable count.

    EDIT: I'd still be all over a side book for the Summers-Grey family. Even if adult Nathan is too busy, both Alex and Gabriel aren't doing too well and Rachel might become unemployed soon. Why not? :D
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 06-28-2021 at 07:12 AM.

  11. #296
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    I don’t think it answers for all the odd behaviour. I still think there’s something fishy about the resurrection protocols and I just saw another hint in the preview for X-Factor #10.
    I'll touch on this multiple times I'm sure, but the pacing is too slow. We've been in this run for two years now and what has happened? Barely anything. Plot-wise, not character-wise, I don't know what goes on in the other books.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    IProbably not a bad one. I mean, what do I know? I have a weird sense of humour. I might have laughed my head off.

    I could actually sense the humour, but there was a cultural barrier there. Are those two drinks really bad?
    They're pretty terrible. 'Course, I'm cutting back on sugar so it's a moot point. I guess it's easier to forget that it isn't only Americans on here than I thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    IOh… the reveal that the regent of Solar System was…

    spoilers:
    Storm
    end of spoilers

    …hurt my soul. I love this character and to see them become a dictator, while their fans were so excited… *sigh* It makes me feel so lonely. I’m really an alien living inside a human body.

    (Lord Ziggy Stardust, please, take me back to our planet. I don’t belong here.)

    You see? The best scenario that can come from it is that they turn out to be a benevolent dictator. But a benevolent dictator is still a dictator.

    Also, I’m also losing my patience at how convenient everything has been for mutants. Just to mention a few…

    spoilers:
    They develop the medicine they need to buy support for Krakoa. They have the exact two mutant powers they need in Arakko. They’re able to create a new super metal that will provide miraculous economic relief for the galactic powers that need to support the mutant coup on the Solar System…
    end of spoilers

    It’s getting boring, you know?

    So, yeah, I’m very turned off about the direction this is going. My only hope is to see some pretty exciting heroics (and maybe some much needed romance) in the new X-Men book. But if that’s a disappointment as well… I’m walking away from comics again. I'm super close to doing that.
    Yeah, again with the pacing here, what's the major setbacks for mutants so far? The narratively-necessary creation of their chief enemy? That's one, anything else?

    As for Storm, I guess we have to wait and see what exactly she can or will do as Regent - although, yes, it's such a nonsensical development that it's like they're asking Earth to band together against them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    II’ve read some good reviews but I’m so tired of this BS. Instead of actually creating new interesting characters who are women or non-heterosexual or non-white or just allow the current ones to shine on their own, they go the easy and lazy way and just change stuff.

    Elektra never needed to be Daredevil. She’s effing Elektra, for god’s sake!

    As a woman I find it insulting that they think a female character cannot be important unless you steal the place/power/name of a established male character and give it to them.

    Write better female characters!
    Right, I just thought that this was Marvel's way of putting her back into the spotlight, I can't remember what she was doing before this book. I am in full agreement with you about the approach to female characters, Marvel (and DC) both have very strong (in the narrative sense) female characters to use and so they should.

    A friend of mine who basically only cares about Daredevil in regards to Marvel says he can't read the current run because he feels like Matt is being written as a sad-sack or has-been or both. I only recently asked him because of our conversation here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    IJean has been dead for more than 20 years. Outside the DPS, she very rarely is drawn as cool and powerful as Ororo, even thought telekinesis is such a versatile and visually cool power. And still she’s so beloved and important.

    Why do you think they put her in so many covers? The girl sells.

    But still… for some reason, most writers are still stuck in this echo chamber that she is boring and that there is nothing but the Phoenix when it comes to her yada-yada… And she remains a beautiful wall paper.

    The fact that Marvel can’t see what they have in their hands… It baffles me.

    There was a time, when Jean was stuck in the White Hot Room, that I wished they’d just sell the character to DC. I don’t even like DC much because they keep resetting their universe. But I’m pretty sure DC wouldn’t keep a character like her dead for 20+ years. Dead. Not even a walpaper.

    Anyway, as for Storm… Disney is actually giving her a push. Some years ago I saw they had a whole Storm ride in one of the parks. I’d have to check, but I suppose it’s still there, no?

    I’m pretty sure she’ll be huge once the X-Men movies are out.
    Storm is pretty big lol, my normie friend loves her. Actually she (my friend) also knows Jean, but mostly for the DPS...

    For all the fault's of Morrison's run, he left Marvel a clear path to bringing Jean back. Over in Scott's app thread (if I recall correctly) we've wondered how the last few years of stories would've gone if Jean had been around. It's a shame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    IYeah, it is. But it’s less awkward in context.
    Context is king.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    IWhat do you mean? That they’ve become unrecognisable?

    If that’s what you’re asking, I’d say it really depends on how much their behaviour/decisions have been influenced by some external factor. If it’s just really them, if that’s whom they become, for me, yeah, I'd say that point has been reached… I’m just not interested in those characters.

    And it hurts to say that…

    But it’s a bit like the teen versions of Jean and Scott (and really, all the O5) who were time-displaced. They’re just not the characters I love. And it’s aggravating that they substituted my favourites. Since I have no power to change that, what am I suppose to do? Spend money and time to just feel betrayed and upset? It doesn’t make sense to me.
    Yeah, I agree completely. The TD-05 overstayed their welcome several times over, they made nearly all five of them unlikable. Tyke was a punching bag in the X-books, he fared better in Champions.

    It's like I've said, the next run of X-Men doesn't have much leeway with me, X-Men is the only book I'm picking up from Marvel and developments in the narrative regularly aggravate or annoy me. Meanwhile, I've got seven or eight books from DC at a time...
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  12. #297
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I'll touch on this multiple times I'm sure, but the pacing is too slow. We've been in this run for two years now and what has happened? Barely anything. Plot-wise, not character-wise, I don't know what goes on in the other books.
    There’s only been lots of setting up new villains/threats, but because there’s been so many, they also appear too sporadically to feel like a real threat.

    So remember I mentioned how convenient things are when they want stuff to work in favour of Krakoa? Well, the same could be said when they want to set up new enemies. Look at X-Men #3 (and Hordeculture)… Cyclops was defeated by 2 old ladies who do water aerobics and yoga 4 days a week. I mean, I think that’s all I have to say about the matter, isn’t it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    They're pretty terrible. 'Course, I'm cutting back on sugar so it's a moot point. I guess it's easier to forget that it isn't only Americans on here than I thought.
    I get lots of references about the US popular culture, political process and stuff like that, but not everything, unfortunately. But, you know, when it doesn't happen, I see it as an opportunity to learn more. :)

    So, if they’re pretty terrible, we’re not those drinks. I don’t know what we are. But we’re not Coca-Cola or Pepsi either. :D

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Yeah, again with the pacing here, what's the major setbacks for mutants so far? The narratively-necessary creation of their chief enemy? That's one, anything else?
    Their own incompetence when it comes to smaller matters? Hank’s screw up with Terra Verde? Allowing Nimrod to be activated?

    When it comes to the last one, I’m not even sure if it’s supposed to be a setback. They way they dealt with it was so incredibly idiotic, it’s like they wanted it to happen.

    I don’t really know. Hickman’s run really confuses me: I can never tell what is bad writing and what is intentionally weird. And I keep saying it because whenever I’m talking about this run, it seems unavoidable that we’ll eventually talk about some element that brings this feeling up again. Which tells you that are way too many of those elements in the main story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    As for Storm, I guess we have to wait and see what exactly she can or will do as Regent - although, yes, it's such a nonsensical development that it's like they're asking Earth to band together against them.
    That is exactly what I was telling Lucy in the other thread: it looks like they (Moira, Xavier and Erik) want to get the human-mutant conflict started ahead of time when humans are less technologically advanced. Maybe that’s what mutants will do differently this time and they’ll get to win for a change.

    Now, while that would make sense… this was supposed to be the X-men!

    Excuse me while I shout in anger internally and knockout my inner Dark Phoenix so I don’t start burning stuff based on a mere possibility. Also because, let’s face it, that motivation would actually make too much sense for those books! :D

    Anyway, it doesn’t matter how awesome Storm is or how much impact she will have on the lives of the inhabitants of the Solar System. Conceptually speaking it was a coup and it is a dictatorship, by definition. And people being okay with it is just scary to me.

    Because even if Storm is a benevolent dictator, if she’s dragged into an intergalactic war, Earth will be dragged into it as well, without ever having a say. You see, now they’re not just a backwater divided planet anymore. They’ve become part of a stellar system that controls a new resource that can affect intergalactic economy.

    Am I the only one who sees the many problems here? We don’t know if the writers will explore that or not. But anyone living in the 616 Earth would be justified to be worried about that and it would have nothing to do with prejudice against mutants… Jeez…

    But I like said many times: I have to learn to turn off my brain when I read comic books.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Right, I just thought that this was Marvel's way of putting her back into the spotlight, I can't remember what she was doing before this book. I am in full agreement with you about the approach to female characters, Marvel (and DC) both have very strong (in the narrative sense) female characters to use and so they should.
    Not every character can hold a book on their own. Elektra is an antagonist, she was never supposed to be an anti-hero.

    But here’s the thing: a strong character doesn’t need to be the protagonist to be strong. Elektra was a strong character on her own. Forcing her to be in this position of an anti-hero is already detrimental to her character, but to replace the actual hero with her? I mean… argh…

    Pick or create a female character who is already a hero/antihero and give her a book. Get a good writer to write her, get a good artist, take the book seriously (like, don’t make it about shopping and being fabulous during the day and fighting crime during the night - ugh).

    And understand that female, non-white, non-heterosexual characters might not become popular but that’s not because of those characteristics. How many male, white, heterosexual characters were created and were a big failure?

    This kind of biased thinking is so tiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    A friend of mine who basically only cares about Daredevil in regards to Marvel says he can't read the current run because he feels like Matt is being written as a sad-sack or has-been or both. I only recently asked him because of our conversation here.
    Oh, thanks for letting me know his opinion. That probably gives me a better indication that it is not the time for me to give the books a try again, than some of the reviews I read.

    Poor, beloved Matt whom I miss so much…

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Storm is pretty big lol, my normie friend loves her. Actually she (my friend) also knows Jean, but mostly for the DPS...
    Because outside the comics that’s *all* they do with Jean. Every cartoon or film wants to do their own version of the DPS because it’s such an awesome story, but then people think that’s all Jean is about… *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    For all the fault's of Morrison's run, he left Marvel a clear path to bringing Jean back. Over in Scott's app thread (if I recall correctly) we've wondered how the last few years of stories would've gone if Jean had been around. It's a shame.
    I wondered a lot about that during that time. The thing is: Jean had to be dead for all that stuff to happen the way it did, for as long as it did. And that’s why it was so infuriating.

    But that also shows you the power of this character. And once you realize that, there’s no escaping of being completely mind-boggled that Marvel refuses to let this character shine.

    Jean is not a strategic genius. But in terms of being inspiring, she is the Steve Rogers of the X-Men, except, if she asked Steve to support her, he would. He has. Everyone she ever asked to help has helped her because she is that impressive, that trust-worthy.

    She is the soft power, the loving substrate that keeps them together, that makes sure the heart of the X-Men are in the right place even if they’re making the wrong or the least effective decisions.

    And why I’ve said that Krakoan Jean reads like a zombie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Yeah, I agree completely. The TD-05 overstayed their welcome several times over, they made nearly all five of them unlikable. Tyke was a punching bag in the X-books, he fared better in Champions.
    More than a punch-bag, he wasn’t Scott Summers. Where did his fear about the destructive nature of his power go? He went to the future and *puff* that’s gone. CC was still writing it as an issue for him, even though he had already learnt to deal with it to some extent!

    I could go on, but I think I can rest my case here already.

    And you know what’s worse? Scott was actually one of the best characterisations of them! Imagine the others… The thing is the writers (starting with Bendis) threw everything that made those characters those characters out of the window to write them whatever the hell they wanted and the excuse was: “oh, but they time-travelled and they saw their own lives and that changed them”. *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    It's like I've said, the next run of X-Men doesn't have much leeway with me, X-Men is the only book I'm picking up from Marvel and developments in the narrative regularly aggravate or annoy me. Meanwhile, I've got seven or eight books from DC at a time...
    I know the feeling. I don’t read DC books because they reset their universe way too often for my taste. But, you know, I have other hobbies and I can entertain myself with other stuff.

    If this X-Men book isn’t amazing for either Scott or Jean (hopefully both of them) I think I’m just walking away, really. It’s the only heroic stuff in the whole line… And I want to read heroes being heroes.
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 06-29-2021 at 12:37 AM.

  13. #298

  14. #299
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force de Phenix View Post
    Thanks for sharing, Force de Phenix.

    Two questions:
    1) How long will that table remain where it is?
    2) Who will toss it into the sea?

    I don't know what weird kind of game of dares those two were playing but I know it involves his wearing her earring - almost falling from his chair while pretending her playing footsie does nothing to him - and flexing to get her even thirstier. I also don't know who is being more effective at provoking the other. But I know that if they're not in a private bungalow, whoever is around is probably feeling a little uncomfortable! :D

    Oh, the 90s... those swimsuit editions were so weird! :D
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 06-29-2021 at 08:28 AM.

  15. #300

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Thanks for sharing, Force de Phenix.

    Two questions:
    1) How long will that table remain where it is?
    2) Who will toss it into the sea?

    I don't know what weird kind of game of dares those two were playing but I know it involves his wearing her earring - almost falling from his chair while pretending her playing footsie does nothing to him - and flexing to get her even thirstier. I also don't know how is being more effective at provoking the other. But I know that if they're not in a private bungalow, whoever is around is probably feeling a little uncomfortable!

    Oh, the 90s... those swimsuit editions were so weird!
    Yes! They were odd. I don't think they'd exist today. The Hildebrandt art is great in this series!
    "You set off the Terrigen Bomb giving the world every excuse to fear the word Inhuman."

    "This is-- this is what Jean felt like..."

    "If you are a mutant, in this world, you are guilty until proven innocent."

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