Originally Posted by
lancer
Every Jean/Logan kiss was forced on her? Talk about interpreting the same comics differently IMO, the XTINCTION AGENDA and Morison kisses were absolutely mutual, at the least. Morrison possibly her initiative. Considering the context of the conversation and Logan clearly breaking it off.
Much as I criticized Morrison, I gave him credit for that scene. While I would NEVER be for a kiss that she was a willing participant, IF it HAD to be done. If you were going to insist on it, IMO, it's done about as well as I could hope for.
Why? The entire scene is about Scott. The pain she is in over Scott. Right before the kiss, IIRC, and just wish he'd hold me the way he used to. The scene is not about how hot she is for Logan, how attracted she is to him. It's seeking comfort from the pain. I certainly don't approve of her kissing him, but it stopped there. It didn't stop there with Emma. IMO, stopped by Logan because he knew that was what it was about. Morrison's Logan says flat out that they belong together, and tries to help the marriage.
Another if. In that issue, the problem is that Scott came back completely different. IF you are going to insist on breaking JOTT up, that is how you do it. Morrison didn't stay with that. Scott flat out tells Emma that the marriage was fake, going through the motions. Never the same afte she came back. Later on with Logan. Every time I see Jean, I see that teenage girl I fell in love with. Only I'm not that teenage boy anymore. What is that saying except that it was a teenage crush he grew out of?
Obviously, I wouldn't have liked the breakup no matter how they did. However, I would acknowledge my first scenario, from the kiss issue, as at least a workable place to start. It loses all credibility when you try to retroactively diminish or deconstruct the relationship. It was too long. The relationship worked, the marriage certainly did. They were happy, on panel. LOL, I'm supposed to buy it was going through the motions?
And some of the praise he got for it at the time. I mean on message boards. I used this example so many times. A new FF writer comes on board and doesn't think that Reed and Sue work. Starts having her spout nonsense like she now realizes that Reed, an older man, really was a substitute for the father that she lost at such a young age. She has come to realize that she really wasn't really in love with him. More going through the motions. Well, I would call that story revisionist psychobable
claptrap, JUST like what Morrison did with Scott and Jean.
This is NO Jean attraction to Logan in the original UXM 94-137. He has a crush for her that he keeps to himself and moves past after he meets Mariko. CLASSIC X MEN 1 is where Jean's attraction to Logan started. I retcon I didn't like, but certainly not the first or last I disliked.
Now, as to the panels posted, the conversation between Jean and Xavier. All well and good. Now find me another like that. ONE such conversation with ANYONE else. I mean before 2003. Might have happened since then. No way in hell it happened before then.
What am I looking for exactly? Jean pondering her feelings for Logan. Jean comparing and contrasting her feelings for Logan to those for Scott. Jean concerned about the intensity of her attraction for Logan. Jean concerned that she might yield to that attraction. Again, just want one.
CLASSIC 1 came out in 1986 and Jean died in 2004. For a triangle that some(not me) seem to have thought was so prevalent, it shouldn't be difficult.
Jean and Scot had 1 brief conversation about her, Logan, and what she might feel for him. X MEN 28. Needless to say, they didn't call the engagement off. Scott acknowledged it, but was not overly threatened by it. He just wanted to talk about it.
In the 80s and 90s it was pretty much a Claremont thing. It was like a game he was playing, but he wasn't her primary handler. The people who were weren't playing the game. Louise Simonson wrote Jean for over 50 issues? Gave JOTT plenty of obstacles, but Logan wasn't one of them. She wrote the issue of AGENDA with the kiss, but that was in a crossover. A collaboration. We don't know how much of that was her idea. All I know is it was the only time. When Jean and Scott were having problems, it would have been a perfect time for Jean to muse on he feelings for Logan. Nope, never. Again, her feelings for him, not vice versa. When she thinks the X Men are dead, she says Ororo was a friend and Logan wanted to be more. That's him, not her.
How many issues did Lobdell write Jean? He never touched Jean/Logan. Nicieza did, he wrote XM 28 and also, very uncomfortably for me, wrote the FATAL ATTRACTIONS issue, XM 25, where the narration says that Jean loved Logan. As Magneto is ripping the adamantium right out of his body.
However, he never wrote a triangle. He never wrote a scene with romantic tension between Jean and Logan. A scene anything like the panels posted above from CLASSIC 1. Nicieza wrote JOTT reconciling in XM 24, the marriage issue. He wrote them as a loving, committed couple. Not Jean pining for Logan in any way. Did Mark Waid touch Jean/Logan? Seagle? Kelly? Alan Davis? Nope, nope and nope.
It was SO overrated and most of what happened was isolated, no followup, because Claremont was the only one interested in playing. After the INFERNO kiss(all Logan grabbing and kissing her, I know), does Jean once think or talk about that kiss? After XTINCTION AGENDA, which i consider mutual, any followup? The next time Jean and Logan were in panels alone again, there should have been lots of romantic tension. Nope
Same with Casey and Morison although Casey really didn't write Jean after that. But nothing after the Morrison kiss either. It was never a true triangle in that there was some ongoing romantic tension. It was several isolated incidents. Nothing that would indicate that Jean would leave Scott for Logan. For that, you'd need to build on something like the Jean/Xavier conversation above. Again, though, that was pretty much a one time deal.
As far as I know the CLASSIC backups were supposed to be canon. Some are hard to reconcile. Claremont's take on Jean/Phoenix versus the X FACTOR writer being an example. Isn't 27 the one where they are trapped underground. That was Ann Nocenti and I'd say there was real romantic tension there. No Jean conversation about feelings, and Logan is hitting on her obnoxiously, but she is attracted to him, IMO. And while it was obnoxious i didn't see it as him forcing himself on her. If they had kissed, and they were coming close, I would not have categorized that with the INFERNO Claremont kiss or Casey's. That is all Logan, clearly, IMO. Grabbing her and kissing her. She had no say in it.
Make no mistake, if Claremont had ever gotten Jean back full time, and not left in 91, I think we would have had plenty of that musing, contemplating her feelings for Logan. But canon isn't what Claremont might have done. It's what was done. Know where else you can find it. The novel for X2 which Claremont wrote. Jean comparing and contrasting.
I think I've typed long enough. A lot longer than I should.