Scott and Jean Appreciation Thread 2021

[Mercury]

Well. Hm...

[Grinning Soul]

This is perfect. This is the Scott and Jean I’ve wanted. I think because of the duration they’ve been together you don’t need anymore drama. Reed and Sue rarely have drama. It’s never about if they will or won’t. They just are, it’s background now. I’m perfectly happy with exactly what we’ve been getting. Give other couples drama.

I agree.

I mentioned the series Outlander before in another thread. Now, there are some problems in that series, but the portrayal of the main couple is everything I think a good romantic couple should be: both are protagonists and no one feels more important to the story than the other, they are not perfect (they disagree and they fight), after a good while together, their difficulties come mostly from external factors (no silly drama, no stupid love triangles) that are happening in the story and they support each other even when one gets themselves in a mess due to stubbornness or righteousness or whatever, they're passionate and loving and they admire each other. You can easily understand why they love each other - the narrative doesn't need to be pushing it down our throats all the time.

Now, I actually think Scott and Jean are much more interesting as individual characters and a couple, so no reason why we can't see something like that in the comics.

Thanks for posting the panels. I see folks questioning my memory again - I am older than most here but my mind is still sharp! (well..sometimes).

No problem. :)

Well. Hm...

He was literally mind-controlled. Are we going to blame him for that too?

[Mercury]

He was literally mind-controlled. Are we going to blame him for that too?

That was honestly my bad; I totally did not remember that, lol.

[Hizashi]

Totally. Even without his power, he should be a challenging martial artist/brawl opponent. But if he can use his power, then he has an even more of an advantage.

Our boy just needs to be treated with some respect, ya know?

I think they both are. The X-Men’s training were tough since the O5 team. They know their bodies have to perform. But we’ve seen them snacking some crap every now and then.

I do like to think Jean has a sweet tooth, though, that she really needs to keep under control.

Nothing wrong with a treat every now and then.

It’s really hard to balance her tender and sweet side with her temperamental and practical side.

Right, I don't want to imply that it's easy to pull off, just that it didn't work for me.

His DD stuff is pretty good indeed. And the art is gorgeous, it really helps the narrative.

I'm working my way through several books to collect, one per week - I'm on a budget. I've got many of the X-Men books now though,

Yes, please. I can’t take more movies with a weak Scott. Seriously. Even if the rest of the X-Men movie is perfect, I won’t be able to enjoy it.

I'm in the same boat. Imagine if Scott were given the same care that was put into Captain America?

You mean after Stan left the book things changed?

Maybe? I guess it seemed to me that they had either planned Jott or that they were playing into the conventions of the times.

No, it isn’t. Pop culture has a huge impact on how we perceive matters of limit and consent.

Well, it seems like Marvel has closed the door on that relationship, so there's that. Now if they could close the door on another...

It was really bad. And that’s on example of why I don’t put CC on a pedestal and say his writing was perfect because he’s an X-Men god.

He's a man, a man who gave so much to the mythos of the X-Men - but he still has biases and makes mistakes like anyone else. I'm sure he's a perfectly nice man, but I can't abide some of the decisions he's made.

Another thing I can’t see Jean doing. She’d try to help him. Not only because she was a Phoenix host, but because she wouldn’t believe he would have killed Charles in his right mind. No way.

And I think when the others saw it, they would have followed her example.

I think you're right about how Jean would've handled things if she'd been present - but it also makes me sad to think that Scott's "friends" couldn't/wouldn't have been able to take that step without a third-parties' (Jean's) involvement.

Tell me about it. *sigh*

Yeah, they did. It became a non-issue in the 90s.

And like Scott and Jean discussed, it’s not about Logan only. And it’s a bit more complex than purely physical attraction. But I might talk about it if Lancer is interested already. Or you, of course, let me know, please.

I don't know that I can stomach any talk of that with the way things are now, sorry. Feel free to discuss with Lancer, if y'all want.

I hope we both do.

Finger's crossed.

[Hizashi]

No problem!

I'll love them more if they appear more often together and they talk and modulate each other's flaws and rely on each other's complementary qualities so they can be awesome co-leaders of the new team.

And more kisses! And fighting holding hands!

Come on, Duggan! It's their signature! Go for it!

I did enjoy seeing that in the new No 1, but I'm basically waiting for the other shoe to drop...

[Grinning Soul]

That was honestly my bad; I totally did not remember that, lol.

I don't blame you for not remembering. It was a weird plot (and it was CC, who at that time already hated Scott and wanted Jean to be with Logan, who wrote it).

Basically, Magneto made Moira use a method (on the blue team which had been captured) which she had used on him to change his behaviour when he was a de-aged baby Mags.

She did as he commanded, so the blue team were under this "behaviour modification" and, for some reason, that means they believed in and joined Magneto.

The blue team, except Rogue, attacks the gold team when they go rescue them. Rogue is free already, because for some other reason, using their powers undoes that "behaviour modification" and she had been flying. So after Scott shoots some of his beams on Jean (he only hits the first: she was too tired to use her telekinesis because of a previous feat, but she's using her telepathy to see where he's going to aim and dodge), and Rogue protects her from blast that would have hit her, Scott snaps out of it. Eventually, the rest of the blue team does too.

[Grinning Soul]

Our boy just needs to be treated with some respect, ya know?

Yeah. And while at it, can they remove those rose-coloured lenses from his visor? His colour is red! (pun intended) :P

Nothing wrong with a treat every now and then.

That's how I see them. It's cannon that they do eat cake and chips. But that can't be their norm. Those people should eat like top athletes, but that means having a cheat day now and then. I mean, even Daredevil has ice cream with his mother on occasion. Nothing wrong with that, right? :D

I do think Jean is much more tempted when it comes to swets than Scott is. Totally headcannon, though. :)

Right, I don't want to imply that it's easy to pull off, just that it didn't work for me.

I know what you mean. I missed more of the many complexities and paradoxical stuff about her personality. And I used to be more critical of writers when it came to it. Since I've actually tried to write Jean, I've become much more forgiving, though. :)

Do I think Dougann is capturing perfectly? No. Am I upset? No. Not yet. It'd surprise me if he got her right from the start.

I'm working my way through several books to collect, one per week - I'm on a budget. I've got many of the X-Men books now though.

I understand. Those prices pile up and it gets very expensive very quickly.

I'm in the same boat. Imagine if Scott were given the same care that was put into Captain America?

I'd have several nerdgasms in the movie theatre! :D

That is, if we can go back to it... This effing pandemic...

Maybe? I guess it seemed to me that they had either planned Jott or that they were playing into the conventions of the times.

I don't have the feeling they planned for much back then! :D

If you see how they describe the "Marvel Method", it's easier to believe it. After the early issues, they soon found out that Scott was actually the most popular of the teen boys (imagine that, kids in the 60s liked the responsible, mature guy!) and because he treated Jean with more respect than the other horny teens, they thought she should fall for him.

But they couldn't really make that romance happen, right? They were teenagers living together! The scandal! :D

It might be why they sent Jean to college at some point, but editorial might have changed their mind and think parents would still have a hissy fit, even if she wasn't living in the school anymore.

So they kept stalling and stalling the teen drama/romance, until one day they mention they're finally together. And still, we can't even see a kiss between them! :D

And that's why sometime after CC takes over, he has Scott and Jean kiss in front of Stan and Jack and they comment about it. Oh, Marvel, you used to be so fun! :D

Well, it seems like Marvel has closed the door on that relationship, so there's that. Now if they could close the door on another...

Like I said, I'm even ready to pretend it never happened, like they might want to do now. And I hate this kind of stuff, but I hate that relationship even more than having my intelligence insulted.

He's a man, a man who gave so much to the mythos of the X-Men - but he still has biases and makes mistakes like anyone else. I'm sure he's a perfectly nice man, but I can't abide some of the decisions he's made.

Exactly. Respect for the body of the work and for him as a writer. But that doesn't mean everything he's written and every creative decision he made were perfect.

I think you're right about how Jean would've handled things if she'd been present - but it also makes me sad to think that Scott's "friends" couldn't/wouldn't have been able to take that step without a third-parties' (Jean's) involvement.

I know. I think so too. But who was deciding how the first reactions had to be written? Bendis. And unfortunately, his writing had become all about empty drama and plots, which were intended just to be flashy so to hide how empty they were.

I don't know that I can stomach any talk of that with the way things are now, sorry. Feel free to discuss with Lancer, if y'all want.

I'd prefer not to either. But if Lancer wants to, I will, like I'd promised.

I did enjoy seeing that in the new No 1, but I'm basically waiting for the other shoe to drop...

Like I said, I want to enjoy them while they're together because I'm very afraid they'll break them apart (and if the current writers don't, the next might). So I want as many kisses and hugs and holding hands and beautiful lines about their love while I can still have them!


--

Related to something I was talking to you and Lucyinthesky.

Do you remember it was one of my theories?

Data page from X-Force #21:

spoilers:

"Notes: Could Krakoa similarly infect us? By eating its food, breathing its spores, taking its medicines... are we already in a state of early symbiosis?"

end of spoilers

[Hizashi]

Yeah. And while at it, can they remove those rose-coloured lenses from his visor? His colour is red! (pun intended)

I don't think I noticed that, I've been preoccupied with Marvel's other nonsense.

That's how I see them. It's cannon that they do eat cake and chips. But that can't be their norm. Those people should eat like top athletes, but that means having a cheat day now and then. I mean, even Daredevil has ice cream with his mother on occasion. Nothing wrong with that, right?

I do think Jean is much more tempted when it comes to swets than Scott is. Totally headcannon, though.

A good son always has ice cream with his mother. And I can accept your Jean headcanon.

I know what you mean. I missed more of the many complexities and paradoxical stuff about her personality. And I used to be more critical of writers when it came to it. Since I've actually tried to write Jean, I've become much more forgiving, though.

Do I think Dougann is capturing perfectly? No. Am I upset? No. Not yet. It'd surprise me if he got her right from the start.

I agree with the school of thought that the most interesting characters have an internal contradiction/paradox (or two) and Jean certainly fits the bill.

That first issue was decent, very basic in a good way. It's too early to tell where this will go, but lets have hope?

I understand. Those prices pile up and it gets very expensive very quickly.

I think the most I dropped on books in one go was nearly $400. The previous record was $200, for back issues that had piled up at my LCS over five months or so. I own some books (comics, graphic novels, plain old books) that I haven't gotten around to reading - but I just love having books. I wish more people appreciated reading, any material really.

I'd have several nerdgasms in the movie theatre!

That is, if we can go back to it... This effing pandemic...

It would be glorious. I'm pretty lucky, most everything is opening up where I live. I hope you're doing good.

I don't have the feeling they planned for much back then!

If you see how they describe the "Marvel Method", it's easier to believe it. After the early issues, they soon found out that Scott was actually the most popular of the teen boys (imagine that, kids in the 60s liked the responsible, mature guy!) and because he treated Jean with more respect than the other horny teens, they thought she should fall for him.

But they couldn't really make that romance happen, right? They were teenagers living together! The scandal!

It might be why they sent Jean to college at some point, but editorial might have changed their mind and think parents would still have a hissy fit, even if she wasn't living in the school anymore.

So they kept stalling and stalling the teen drama/romance, until one day they mention they're finally together. And still, we can't even see a kiss between them!

And that's why sometime after CC takes over, he has Scott and Jean kiss in front of Stan and Jack and they comment about it. Oh, Marvel, you used to be so fun!

I guess they really were great at making it look like they had a plan all along, huh?

I'm not immune to the cool, popular characters (Batman, Wolverine, etc.) but I've always gravitated most to the responsible, mature characters (Superman, Cyclops). In fact, the older I get, the more I think there's something truly great about the latter characters. That's part of the reason why I'm so sick of these dark, edgy, authoritarian takes on Superman, I find it disrespectful to the character. If the man I am now had been reading the Utopia Era of Cyclops, I might not have received it as well as I did when I did read it a few years ago.

Like I said, I'm even ready to pretend it never happened, like they might want to do now. And I hate this kind of stuff, but I hate that relationship even more than having my intelligence insulted.

I couldn't agree more.

Exactly. Respect for the body of the work and for him as a writer. But that doesn't mean everything he's written and every creative decision he made were perfect.

Exactly, nothing controversial about it.

I know. I think so too. But who was deciding how the first reactions had to be written? Bendis. And unfortunately, his writing had become all about empty drama and plots, which were intended just to be flashy so to hide how empty they were.

Bendis needs to go on sabbatical. I didn't hate his Superman work overall, but I think it's full of his worst habits - they shouldn't have given him both books, ugh.

I'd prefer not to either. But if Lancer wants to, I will, like I'd promised.

Don't do it Lancer!

Like I said, I want to enjoy them while they're together because I'm very afraid they'll break them apart (and if the current writers don't, the next might). So I want as many kisses and hugs and holding hands and beautiful lines about their love while I can still have them!


--

Related to something I was talking to you and Lucyinthesky.

Do you remember it was one of my theories?

Data page from X-Force #21:

spoilers:

"Notes: Could Krakoa similarly infect us? By eating its food, breathing its spores, taking its medicines... are we already in a state of early symbiosis?"

end of spoilers

Yeah, we gotta enjoy the ride while it lasts I suppose.

And I'm ready for your theories to be canonized.

[Grinning Soul]

I want to post and re-post some images, so I need to break the reply in two. Sorry.

I don't think I noticed that, I've been preoccupied with Marvel's other nonsense.

I wasn't being literal. It's my weird sense of humour. :D

Hickman's Scott was all about being happy, carpe diem, dreaming etc...

Duggan's Scott doesn't seem very different. In issue 1:

spoilers:

He says he loves creating stuff, creates a tree-house, tells Ben not to let responsibilities get in the way of doing the things he loves, push the responsibility of the zoning to X-Corp AND tells Lorna that if she killed Wanda, he doesn't want to know

end of spoilers

I mean, I know the green dress is distracting, but he managed to get a hold of himself around it when he was a teenager. I expect *more* from his adult self! :D

A good son always has ice cream with his mother. And I can accept your Jean headcanon.

You know, when I first heard that Bidden loves ice cream, I immediately thought to myself, is that an Irish American thing? :D

More than loving ice cream, I can actually see some similarities in their behaviour. :)

I agree with the school of thought that the most interesting characters have an internal contradiction/paradox (or two) and Jean certainly fits the bill.

That first issue was decent, very basic in a good way. It's too early to tell where this will go, but lets have hope?

Oh, yeah. It was just the first issue, it's too early to judge, but I had enough hope to give it a fair chance and that's what I'll keep doing for now.

But I want Scott to come up with more plans for the action and bark more orders, though. 'Cause, you know, I love that. Let him be the field leader he is.

Another thing? This whole Krakoa era feels so... easy. The X-Men used to have to earn it. They were badass because they trained like badasses. I want too see more merit and less "mutants are gods who can do everything".

I think it's one of the reasons Scott seems a little lacklustre. Our boy shines when it comes to preparedness, training, effort, merit, etc...

I think the most I dropped on books in one go was nearly $400. The previous record was $200, for back issues that had piled up at my LCS over five months or so. I own some books (comics, graphic novels, plain old books) that I haven't gotten around to reading - but I just love having books. I wish more people appreciated reading, any material really.

Okay. You win. I don't think I've spent that much at once. And I really don't want to think on how much I spent over the years. :D

It would be glorious. I'm pretty lucky, most everything is opening up where I live. I hope you're doing good.

Most things are open here too and that's the problem: the number of new daily infections are growing exponentially again... *sigh* Europe doesn't learn.

I guess they really were great at making it look like they had a plan all along, huh?

And they didn't lie about being a mess. I'm telling you, Stan's answers to the letters are many times better than the comics! :D

I'm not immune to the cool, popular characters (Batman, Wolverine, etc.) but I've always gravitated most to the responsible, mature characters (Superman, Cyclops). In fact, the older I get, the more I think there's something truly great about the latter characters. That's part of the reason why I'm so sick of these dark, edgy, authoritarian takes on Superman, I find it disrespectful to the character. If the man I am now had been reading the Utopia Era of Cyclops, I might not have received it as well as I did when I did read it a few years ago.

Exactly: I see the charm in the cool, edgy ones. I like them too.

But I don't want my responsible, mature ones to be turned into something else. They're not boring to me at all. I love them because they are like this. I'm mostly okay-ish with Utopia era Scott because he doesn't completely turned into someone else (though I did have trouble recognising him at times), but I missed the guy he was before The Twelve soooooooooooooooo much! And I still do, because this Scott we have now - who reads like he's high on Krakoan tea, engages in magical thinking and is ready to go on a semi-incoherent rant about happiness at the mere, tangential mention of it on a conversation - creeps me out.

Same with the sweet, caring ones like Jean. I love that she has a volcanic temper. Really. But I don't want her to be a heartless, raging, edgy woman.

Bendis needs to go on sabbatical. I didn't hate his Superman work overall, but I think it's full of his worst habits - they shouldn't have given him both books, ugh.

Was it that bad too?

I think at some point (back at Marvel) he was writing so many books it really drained his creativity. By the time he got to the X-Men, it was clear he didn't know what to do with them.

So I couldn't agree more and I've been saying it since then: he needs a break.

Yeah, we gotta enjoy the ride while it lasts I suppose.

Yeah. Especially for our boy. I can see Jean having some other interesting matches in the X-corner of the the MU (if she can escape the fate of being stuck with Logan, that is). But Scott will probably be paired up with a former villain in need of rehabilitation to which the writers want to prop their popularity because they're her fans.

Just let our heroes be truly heroic and in love, damn it. When you find someone like that, that is cut from the same cloth as you, and *still* complements you so well; that helps you grow, that is to you like the continent and a huge river like the Amazon, instead of a little pot that limits your growth; who truly admires and gets you, you never let them go. Unless, of course, you're a complete idiot. And if you're not a complete idiot - and none of those characters are - you know such connection is rare, you fight for that relationship, you make it work.

To illustrate what I'm talking about (but there's so much more to it)...

What her *clone* never understood:



- Scott: What about--?
- Jean: --The X-Men?! This is our home, Scott... We belong here. We belong together. I'd sooner ask you to leave, than I'd ask you to grow another arm.



What even Logan can see:



"You guys are something special, and most of the times, you don't even see it. You go together like fire and ice, like a hurricane and its eye. It sounds strange, but it fits. One can't exist without the other - each one makes the whole stronger than the parts."

[Grinning Soul]

She gets him:



- Jean: My husband... he is not so very unlike you. He almost lost his own son forever... Because of that creature. He, like you, is a passionate, driven man. And he has suffered greatly... But he doesn't let that ruin him.

Later:

- Essex: So this must be your husband, about whom you spoke with so much affection. A man who has also been labeled... obsessed. How do you do it, sit? How do you manage to suffer, to grieve, to persevere and yet love and be loved by this woman?



He gets her:



- Jean: What does it say about the kind of person I am, Scott?
- Scott: Honey, it only means you're human, like the rest of us--

But, yeah, considering how Marvel can be so blind when it comes to what they have in their hands... It might be the last era in which they are allowed to be together. So let them be very happy and very affectionate like they used to. And let us enjoy while we can.

And I'm ready for your theories to be canonized.

Mercury is turning them into the "Phoenix Revelations" (and posting them on "Is Krakoa Evil?" thread), which is a Sinister Secret style, cryptic phrasing of those possibilities. :D

They're better and more interesting than anything I could have written. :D

[Grinning Soul]

Because of the X-Men (2021) #2 preview, I wanted to share an image of hers in her appreciation thread, so I looked for a panel where Jean is practising some “telekinetic meditation” in X-Men (1991) #71. This issue also happens to have a prime example of the kind of interaction I’d like to see in the new book.

Here it is:



What's not to love about it?

Supporting each other? Check.
Being affectionate? Check.
Being clearly in love? Check.

Short of a kiss, this is pretty much perfect. But that hug... so beautiful!

I love how she knelt in front of him so he wouldn't move much (they had just removed the bomb from his chest). I love how they smile softly after the hug.

I love how she touches his chin and adjusts his tie. I love how he plays with her hair and how he places his hand over hers in the taxi (this last one is protective, comforting and gentle and it says more with the gesture than words - so Scott!)

NOTE: She mentions television because she saw the news that the Avengers and the FF had returned.

[lancer]

I used to say it all the time. Joe Kelly's first 2 issues, XM 70 and 71, were gold. I mean the character interactions. Not just Scott and Jean either. 71 has Logan and Storm over Marrow, Scott and Logan, the, I thought, amusing Maggott hitting on Jean. Sam Guthrie can't believe what he's hearing. Well, I guess it also depends on how you see the characters. The way I saw them, the character interaction was spot on.

Those other panels above are what I referred to before. XM 28, the issue where Jean so beautifully put Sabretooth in his place, was the only time Jean and Scott ever had a conversation about her feelings for Logan. 1963-2004, I mean. And I read every X book Jean and Scott were ever in. Since then, maybe so. That one panel of a brainwashed Scott asking Jean about Logan's kiss(CC, of course),is not my idea of a conversation.

I see all these 90s panels and remember seeing 90s Jean called a whiny, clingy attachment to Scott. Some called them the Jean/Scott entity. And I used to say, if this is getting the character wrong, sign me up for wrong. Jean was warm, compassionate and idealistic. That's what the character is supposed to be, IMO. She is also kickass when need be as evidenced in that very same XM 28. Passionate in her convictions and beliefs. She disagreed with letting Sabretooth stay at the mansion and told Xavier. Again, if that is getting Jean wrong, sign me up. And if XM 71 is an example of how "stale and stagnamt" Jean were, sign me up. I believe those were a couple of the buzzwords flying around, by people who approved, when Morrison was doing what he did.

Maybe I missed it and you did post them. Panels from X Men 59? The issue that they were in the movie theatre. It's definitely in the late 50s. i don't remember the over, though. A lot of Joseph(when he was believed to be Magneto) and Quicksilver in that issue as well. Anyway, surprised I didn't see that one from you. Especially if you are looking for kisses.

[Celestialbodies]

Reposted from the Jean Grey Appreciation Thread:


Speaking of Duggan, all credit to Mercury, what is everyone's thoughts on how Jean and Scott interacts under his pen?

I got to admit I'm a fan at the present Mercury really highlighted something for me. And that's the dichotomy shift in personality when they engage one another. Scott is stoic, and pragmatic Jean can be calming and emotionally forthcoming. But when they interact there's this shift, Scott is complete and utterly open with all his emotions with her, while Jean become more practical and reassuring.

And it's not much but for me it's such a unique and potentially interesting dynamic that could be played with in a variety of ways. But more importantly, it gives other writers something to really sink their teeth into. And I gotta be honest, I haven't enjoyed them at all under Hickman that's not an attack but they feel so cold, and superficial under his pen. Whereas Duggan does little things to demonstrate why these two people would choose to be together. The examples I'd like to point to is is Cable issue, PSX and the little hand holding between them, and of course the kiss in Xmen. As a fan I'm glad their adding to one another rather than subtracting.

[Grinning Soul]

I used to say it all the time. Joe Kelly's first 2 issues, XM 70 and 71, were gold. I mean the character interactions. Not just Scott and Jean either. 71 has Logan and Storm over Marrow, Scott and Logan, the, I thought, amusing Maggott hitting on Jean. Sam Guthrie can't believe what he's hearing. Well, I guess it also depends on how you see the characters. The way I saw them, the character interaction was spot on.

Those other panels above are what I referred to before. XM 28, the issue where Jean so beautifully put Sabretooth in his place, was the only time Jean and Scott ever had a conversation about her feelings for Logan. 1963-2004, I mean. And I read every X book Jean and Scott were ever in. Since then, maybe so. That one panel of a brainwashed Scott asking Jean about Logan's kiss(CC, of course),is not my idea of a conversation.

I see all these 90s panels and remember seeing 90s Jean called a whiny, clingy attachment to Scott. Some called them the Jean/Scott entity. And I used to say, if this is getting the character wrong, sign me up for wrong. Jean was warm, compassionate and idealistic. That's what the character is supposed to be, IMO. She is also kickass when need be as evidenced in that very same XM 28. Passionate in her convictions and beliefs. She disagreed with letting Sabretooth stay at the mansion and told Xavier. Again, if that is getting Jean wrong, sign me up. And if XM 71 is an example of how "stale and stagnamt" Jean were, sign me up. I believe those were a couple of the buzzwords flying around, by people who approved, when Morrison was doing what he did.

Maybe I missed it and you did post them. Panels from X Men 59? The issue that they were in the movie theatre. It's definitely in the late 50s. i don't remember the over, though. A lot of Joseph(when he was believed to be Magneto) and Quicksilver in that issue as well. Anyway, surprised I didn't see that one from you. Especially if you are looking for kisses.

Since you mentioned Jean putting Sabretooth in his place, I wanted to have shared this panel before because it ties to her relationship with Logan and the type of love that I mentioned that she has for him - which is not romantic.



"You want the truth? There was something between the two of is. A bond, a deep, loving friendship."

So, yes: it's love and it's deep and it's genuine. But it was not romantic from her part.

As for Scott and Jean being "entity" and stale, that's mostly an echo chamber. Scott and Jean disagreed on lots of things. And she was never a push over. They'd talk and, most of the times, they'd actually do what she wanted. So how does that make her whiny and clingy attached?

What can I say? People don't know how to identify love when it hits them in their face, I suppose? Yeah, a couple who love each other take each other into consideration, find compromises, support each other when they need. What's wrong with that?

As for their kisses... Oh... I haven't gone into the herculean job of posting all of them! Those are decades of comics, Lancer, and I'm only human! :D

EDIT: Many years ago I posted some panels of their interaction on X-Men (1991) #59 on another forum. Maybe I should do it again here. :)

[Grinning Soul]

Reposted from the Jean Grey Appreciation Thread:


Speaking of Duggan, all credit to Mercury, what is everyone's thoughts on how Jean and Scott interacts under his pen?

I got to admit I'm a fan at the present Mercury really highlighted something for me. And that's the dichotomy shift in personality when they engage one another. Scott is stoic, and pragmatic Jean can be calming and emotionally forthcoming. But when they interact there's this shift, Scott is complete and utterly open with all his emotions with her, while Jean become more practical and reassuring.

And it's not much but for me it's such a unique and potentially interesting dynamic that could be played with in a variety of ways. But more importantly, it gives other writers something to really sink their teeth into. And I gotta be honest, I haven't enjoyed them at all under Hickman that's not an attack but they feel so cold, and superficial under his pen. Whereas Duggan does little things to demonstrate why these two people would choose to be together. The examples I'd like to point to is is Cable issue, PSX and the little hand holding between them, and of course the kiss in Xmen. As a fan I'm glad their adding to one another rather than subtracting.

I said it here and on Jean's thread, but I think it was before Mercury joined and they didn't get to that post yet.

Anyway, I partially agree with it. But I think this "shift" happens mostly when it comes to their family and it's just part of their amazing dynamics (though I certainly love it!).

When something bad happens or could happen to Nathan, Scott breaks apart. And it makes sense if you consider how he experienced the loss of his family at a very young age. When that happens, Jean puts her armour up, assumes the mantle of the rational one and takes charge. I think it's beautiful, it's something one does for the person they love: they move out of their comfort zone and protect their significant other the best they can.

Scott being emotionally forthcoming with her isn't exactly a shift. It's just how he is with her, because she earned it by waiting for him to be ready to open up (I recently posted about it in this thread: page 22, posts 325-338). For someone like Scott, who is all about actions and merit, that has a lot of value.

Just think about it: someone as reserved and guarded as Scott is asked if he wants to form a psychic rapport and share total intimacy. His answer: "yes". Just like that. No hesitation. That's absolute trust right there. That's why he is so emotionally surrendered: she earned his trust and was deserving of it for a good part of their lives.

I don't really see Jean becoming more practical or reassuring than her normal when interacting with Scott, either. She is passionate and has strong emotions, but she's also quite practical (one of her many contradictions that I love!) and that's just her normal self.

So I think this inversion of their standard roles happens mostly when it comes to loss/danger related to their family. For the rest, they're really just themselves.