Scott and Jean Appreciation Thread 2021

[Grinning Soul]

Agreed, the X-men always should be heros. They managed to be that on AoA so they have not excuse now.

Unless there was something fishy with the resurrections protocols or Krakoa itself or Onslaught or whatever, but they seem to have dropped all those hints concerning that so…

Also, I don’t care anymore. I know I sound like a broken record, but let’s burn the place down so we can move on and leave this mess behind.

There´s always good and bad titles, the problem is that Ocness imo, I could be ok with most of the developments if the characters were not forced into position to advance the plot. It´s hard to care when you know the characters will just act certain way to advance the plot instead of themselves running the story.

But the story comes first and everything has to, conveniently, follow.

This is one of my altime favorite songs, so not judgment from me there, I also love life is life and Eye of the tiger.

Yeah! I remember you were happy when I shared Eye of the Tiger as part of a joke about getting Mag’s core in shape! :D

I will love danger for both of us, hugs danger. :P

Keep her. All yours. I’d rather have Rosie any day.

I don´t think Duggan will overcomplicate Captain Krakoa, I could see him being Scott using the costumbe for a while until Urich stops his investigation or is a new character designed to challenge the X-men on their turf.

It’s called “Project Polyphemus”.

”Polyphemus is the one-eyed giant son of Poseidon and Thoosa in Greek mythology, one of the Cyclopes described in Homer's Odyssey. His name means "abounding in songs and legends".”

(source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphemus)

Like I said, the moment they first showed us the image of Captain Krakoa, my mind screamed “Scott Summers”. Maybe all of those hints are red herrings, of course. But I think we’ll have 2 Scotts running around until one of them dies. Maybe StefordScott pretends to be OrchisScott to gain some info… who knows?

But I’m expecting it to be a mess where everyone will look bad and be thrown under the bus. Most especially Jean.

We don´t know that for sure but I agree they need tone down their fanboyism if it gets in the way of good stories.

I don’t know that for sure, but judging by the work they produce it certainly looks like it’s the case.

Hugs Soul back :P

Yay! So many hugs! :)

Don´t worry, Stepford Scott will be too busy smiling to notice :P

Oh god… and to think I might come to prefer having this buffoon around instead of the alternative… Why am I still reading this sh**?

I know, we should use protection for our eyes, everytime something makes us roll our eyes.

Especially when it happens so often!

Agreed, I fear I may have scared them, so I will try to be less direct next time :P

Those sensitive souls, afraid of us. Us, Lucy! :P

It´s ok. I understand, I saw that threat about Charles and Jean and didn´t feel like commenting either, it´s just too surreal. I felt compelled to use the "burn it with fire" gif

And that was on the *same week* when there was another thread about Jean not having been slut-shamed enough for not having done something she hasn’t done due to feelings she didn’t have! And another about her being a racist!

Like I said to a friend, it must have been because of Halloween. She’s redhead. Clearly a witch, right? Burn the witch!

Speaking about eye rolling…

Your partner sounds awesome and cute, it´s so great to have people who get us and actively participate in our crazines :D

That’s an accurate description of him, yes. He’s a different kind of nerd than me, but he’s willing to engage and participate in my craziness indeed. And vice-versa. :)

Oh, more hugs? :D

Since you like polar bears:

[Grinning Soul]

Rev, Su and From The Shadows. I've read your messages and I'll try to reply to them tomorrow, if I have time.

[Grinning Soul]

Argh! I hate derailing the thread, but both these posts are so on the nose, particularly the bolded.

To try and get back on topic, I can suspend my belief in how characters would act to some degree but I can’t suspend it long enough or hard enough to believe that Jean and Scott are acting in character at the moment (let alone Kurt). Crucible was the straw which broke the camel’s back for me.

Su, this thread has naturally become a place where friends talk about Scott and Jean as individual characters and a couple, but a place where they also about any other topic that springs from this discussion.

When talking to Hizashi about having a Summers-Grey family comic book, we ended up talking about Doctor Who and Star Trek. When talking to Lucy about Scott and Jean’s characterization, we talked about the QC and end up gushing about Magneto’s cape.

I used to feel a bit guilty too, but you know what? I can’t think of anything more fitting to a thread about Scott and Jean.

Think of this place as the Boathouse. Imagine we were invited to a dinner party there. Do you think our hosts would want us to focusing on them all the time or they’d be glad we felt comfortable enough in their house to talk about whatever we wanted?

It’s like their wedding issue: by not making it about them it, paradoxically, became all about them.

So now I just feel really happy a group of really cool people carved this little hidden-in-plain sight corner of these forums where we can have as deep or crazy conversations as we want, where we can disagree without being hostile or aggressive towards each other and, more importantly, have fun.

I’d be *really* happy if you felt like joining us whenever you can/want. And this message is to say that and to offer you my way of coping with the mess we make here: I don’t think there is a better way to make an homage to this very special couple than to have good, fun, conversations among friends.

If they were real people, I don’t think they could be happier that this is the kind of interaction that happens in their house. This is the kind of thing they inspire. :)

I mean, I’m sharing recipes here. I think you can talk about the Crucible especially because it ties directly to Jean, since she was still part of the QC when they approved that monstrosity.

So… no pressure, but join us if you want. :)

[Grinning Soul]

@Lucy and Rev: You guys made several good points. I was kind of reading, but not really registering, so I re-read all your messages again. And I’ll comment on some points about that conversation. Sorry about being late for the party. I really needed a break last week.

- Kurt’s “crisis of faith”: This is a tricky one. While I think “crisis of faith” may be too loaded of an expression, I think the Spurrier intended him to go through something like that.

The tricky part to “sell” this idea is that Kurt has gone through so much, it feels a bit rich for him to feel a dent in his faith at this point.

The way I more or less make it work in my head is that it’s the first time he’s having to deal with mass resurrections, happening at will. Yes, characters would die and come back all the time, but not on that scale. And more importantly: it was never a given. No one knew for sure if or when a friend who died would come back.

The resurrection protocols come with a vulgarization of death (and many other consequences) and Kurt felt that was wrong, but when he asked himself “why”, he couldn’t really find an answer. And I think that was the problem: the "crisis" wasn’t so much due to his faith, but his moral compass (which is related to his faith, but it’s not the same thing). Suddenly, it felt like he lost his North and he couldn’t find it again. So that put him on this path of trying to adjust to this new reality because he had trouble to just shrug it off and accept it, like most characters seemed to be doing.



- Kurt’s new religion: Like I wrote to Lucy, this seems to have been Hickman’s initial idea and it was very shallow character-thinking. I think Spurrier - to his credit - saw right away that it would be a bad concept for the book, so he never wrote it that way. And if that’s not clear in the books themselves, there are several interviews of his saying it was not the case.

Normally, I don’t take interviews into consideration. But I’m making an exception here because I think it was previous interviews by other Marvel writers and editors that made people biased to read Way of X that way, when Spurrier clearly didn’t intend it that way and didn’t write it that way.

So Kurt never tried to create a new religion. He was making an effort to understand that society so he could come up with something beyond normal culture, something that would unite them as a people, something to represent Krakoans and be aspirational to them. It is whatever it is that make a people a people.

Think about your own countries. I’m sure you, as native, know what makes you a part of that people, even if you can’t really express it in words.

The question here is this, though: this might be what Kurt intended. What he realised that society needed before it failed completely. Can someone create this, though? Or is it the result of many years of struggle, interaction, hurt and healing?

Honestly, I don’t have a good answer to it. I tend to believe you can’t create it because it’s too complex to be isolated and understood, let alone replicated. It either happens or it doesn’t. Some societies will fail. Some will succeed. But I can’t really argue this. It’s mainly a “feeling”.



- The Crucible: You guys pretty much said everything there is to say, I think. It’s abhorrent and the more you think about it, the worse it gets. It does bring all those connotations that not having powers makes you inferior and you have to prove you’re worthy of them, which is ridiculous on so many levels because being a mutant is a matter of having certain genes. And if you aren’t a warrior, if you are a pacifist person, you deserve to live your life without your abilities even though losing them was not your fault in the first place. The violence, the spectacle, the savagery of the thing, coming from a society of people who claim to be superior is just… it’s laughable. When I think of a superior society, I think of the humans in Star Trek, not the mutants in Krakoa. Anyway… I could go on and on, but like I said: the more we think of this BS, the worse it gets. But the worst part of it all? Outside this thread, people would be defending the Crucible, thinking it has a place in the X-Men books, thinking their X-Men heroes should be okay with it… Of course, every one is entitled to have their opinion, but the fact they feel this way? It’s depressing, really.



- Humans and technology: This is another thing that drives me nuts about the Krakoans. Take Orchis out of the equation for a second and just think of the mutants' logic: they think being born with a certain set of genes makes them superior. They think humans are outdated because their biology isn’t evolving naturally. But when humans start to use their ingenuity to compensate for it, they *still* look down on them? They actually resent humans for trying to still remain relevant? And again, I’m not talking about Orchis. I’m talking about little comments about when it comes Reed and Stark and NASA and Terra Verde.



Anyway, you guys touched on many other interesting topics, but I’ll save some for later or we may get into a very convoluted conversation here.

I just want to say this: I feel so lucky to be part of this special little corner of the internet where we can actually talk about things like this. And to think it’s due to comic books? It makes me love the medium all the more, even though I deeply dislike the stories.

So, thank you, my friends. :)

[Grinning Soul]

Beautiful! A couple that holds hands while kicking ass is a strong couple, indeed. :o

Yep! Moreover: it’s their signature! :)



Obviously, you can’t fight the whole fight holding hands. But they never did that. It was mostly when they would be running or charging into battle. Or they were standing their ground right before the fight started. Or they were having each other’s back.

It’s that boost of confidence that make you excel in combat. It’s like silently saying: “we’re together, we can’t lose”. And guess what? They shouldn’t lose most fights indeed.

Scott and Jean should be an unstoppable force of nature when fighting together.

While she’s an Omega-Level mutant, he’s a powerhouse too. While he’s a strategic genius, she possesses a brilliant intellect herself. They’ve trained as hard as only the X-men do from their teenage years and they’ve trained together since then. Moreover, they’ve known each other for a big part of their lives and their shared their minds during a significant part of that period. They spent 12 years relying on each other to survive and raise a baby.

Fighting together for those two should be as natural as breathing. And because they’re both so powerful and resourceful and intelligent, it should be nearly impossible to defeat them.

Again: I have no idea why Marvel doesn’t see that and cash on the epic-ness of this couple. Seriously. It’s frustrating!

[Grinning Soul]

If that rapport could talk… the stories it could sell to gossip magazines and erotica writers… :P

Those people who look well-behaved are always the worse one, aren’t they? :P



“Jean, please… not in front of the children!” :D

Oh, it must be hard being married to that woman! Poor, poor Scott! :D

[Grinning Soul]

The new stuff, its just... it seems like nonsense. What are they doing?

Things have changed a lot since here. I prefer them friends now. Just working together. Oh well...

Here’s the thing: I actually wouldn’t mind if they *could* be just friends. I’d be sad and I’d think it’s an absolute waste of one of the best couples ever in the entire ensemble of human literature but… well… as long as they remained best friends I could live with it.

The problem is that it would be really hard for Marvel to do that. And I can’t really blame them. Exactly because they are such a good couple and they have such an amazing literary chemistry, not writing them together would be almost impossible.

And the thing I cannot live with is for Marvel to make them on-again-off-again couple. Nope. Just nope.

So I think we - and Marvel - should reach the same conclusion that Jean eventually reached: if those two being together is inevitable... If their being together is actually a great thing for the characters and the franchise… Why fight it? Embrace the relationship, propose marriage already and go be happy. :)

And let this precious couple be epic and iconic. The X-Men deserve it! The characters deserve it! We, fans of the franchise, deserve all the eye candy and the power feats and the unbridled, unapologetic romance and heart they bring to the stories! :)

You can't please everyone so... whoever doesn't like them together... well, they can just skip the book(s) where you can find them.

[Grinning Soul]

Some art for Jean and Scott :)

Oh, thanks so much for sharing. That hug at the end of “Search for Cyclops” is so poignant. So sad but so beautiful… I miss being this emotionally involved with characters and stories.

As for the cover, it’s a cool one, but the art is kinda weird. Were Scott and Jean sharing a very aggressive kiss? Why is her mask bleeding? And more importantly: why is the artist being so mean and teasing just a peek of one lock of Scott's glorious brown mane? That’s just cruel!

Where’s my spray bottle, Lucy. Did you get it again? :P




---


Phew!

I *think* I replied to everyone now. Sorry for all the messages in a row, I didn’t want to ignore anyone ‘cause you’re all cool people and I really appreciate you. :)

I'll try not to disappear again.

[Rev9]

Agreed completely, like I am not agaisnt them having their own place and country, in fact this pov is something I always thought made sense for Magneto but I could do without all this hubris and arrogance. At first I thought Hickman wanted to make them villains but no, it seems like this is the writers idea of the characters building a country, which I disagree with because they are just not acting like themselves, Ororo and Scott don´t read this way. it´s like they are completely different characters. In fact this is why Soul and I thought Onslaught and the ressurrection process was going to have a bigger impact than the one it had and now I guess we just want to advance past this point.

And it also has the additional problem of sending the indirect message that "Oppressed people should not have the power to have their own say in the system, because they can just be as bad to those that oppressed them before or worse", bassically justifiying oppresion in general, which I am like bs, this is not how things work and everybody should get the opportunity to act on their own well being when they are being unfairly treated.

Rev9 Your inbox seems to be full so I am not sure you got my message. Still I wanted to thank you, as I told Soul, it´s nice to have this space.

I know that it is implied the agent was there to assassinate Xavier in X-Men 4.I read it differently,to me Xavier was talking about the successful assassination of X-Force #1. The agent in turn was responding to mutant powerplay giving humanity no room but to resort to desperate measures. Some could take it as a tacit confession ,while I took it on the face of all that was said during the meeting.First of all I think apart from the country dignitaries the two guys were SHIELD and STRIKE respectively(don't remember individual names).So for me one of the guys- both agents of a supra national security agency-having a holstered gun is not out of the ordinary to jump to the conclusion that he is an assasin.As a special agent in a foreign land ,a gun is pretty standard issue for personal protection.Moreover while they were trained to resist telepathy, Esmee (was it?) was confident that she cracked them she even said something to that effect, and she simply said he has a gun, didn't say he was there to kill Xavier.So I did not read it that way. Even if I am wrong and Xavier was accusing him at the Davos meeting(even though I think he was referencing the Xeno attack) because Esmee did not reveal anything to at least make Magneto say that out of contempt for the attempt on Xavier's life, then it goes back to Magneto's mutant superiority mantra.

I have a suspicion of Magneto's supremacist tint,I said the same to Soul.I cannot understand how he swapped his animus as a victim of a human on human persecution(Holocaust) to mutant on human animus. He knows the Jewish people are human (or majority of them in this x-gene reality just like he and Kitty are mutants who are of Jewish ethnicity ,it is natural to presume there were German/Nazi mutants at the time even if I don't know any nazi mutant.I know the first class film took artistic liberty ..so that doesn't inform my assumption) Anyway the way he just abandoned or switched his Jewish heritage which is the common kinship he shares even with non mutant Jews for a purely mutant heritage is the greatest sleight of hand in comic history for me. On its face it's bewildering.This makes me look at Magneto as a hypocrite who seized on the Holocaust to justify his pro mutant agenda .It is not vocalised in comics because it is glaring hypocrisy that writers rather overlook but I don't. I just think Magneto in Krakoa is the Magneto with the mask off.

Pretty much agree with all the rest. Unfortunately I guess my inbox is full. Hope your reply wasn't too long to make you re-write it.I'll try to free it up.Otherwise you're welcome and yes it's cool to share great insights on here or through personal messages.

[Mercury]

I haven’t seen this in some time. It’s from the wedding album. Gorgeous.

[Spideyvinnegar]

what are your expectations/preditions on Jean and Scott's marriage in the sequel to the 90s show ?
In og series finale we seemingly get the long awaited conclusion to the love triangle with Jean coming in terms with her feelings, Scott admitting his mistakes and logan apparently accepting jean's choice and moving on

[CoCoBandz]

what are your expectations/preditions on Jean and Scott's marriage in the sequel to the 90s show ?
In og series finale we seemingly get the long awaited conclusion to the love triangle with Jean coming in terms with her feelings, Scott admitting his mistakes and logan apparently accepting jean's choice and moving on

Just leave it at that.

Let Jean and Scott do their thing and let there be no mention of a triangle ever...but of course we know that's not gonna happen.

[Spideyvinnegar]

Just leave it at that.

Let Jean and Scott do their thing and let there be no mention of a triangle ever...but of course we know that's not gonna happen.

I'd love to say you may be wrong but I'm just not that optimistic
Even tho the new people behind the show seems to actually like jean like daamn I just wish they will watch the OGs final season and realize the whole triangle thing already concluded a looong time ago and bringing it back would only make their revival looks weird as a "sequel"

[Grinning Soul]

@Mercury: Thanks for sharing. It is indeed gorgeous. What a beautiful couple! :)

@CoCoBandz and @Spideyvinnegar: Great to see you guys here.

I hope the 97 cartoon is in line with the 90s comics when it comes to Scott and Jean and the silly love triangle is a non-issue. I'll share this yet again, from their wedding issue, the letter Logan wrote to them which makes it clear that even he understood why the other two belonged together.



I wish the producers let both Scott and Jean be heroes who happen to be married. Some hand-holding while fighting, some cute kisses and that should be fine for most episodes. And then, let their relationship be front and centre in stories where it's more relevant, for instance, if Strife ever decides to get upset with mum and dad or something.

Since Inferno doesn't make sense for the cartoon, maybe Jean actually gestates Nathan in that universe and he still has to be sent to the future? Maybe Rachel brings their minds 2000 years into the future so they raise the baby? I'd like to watch that.

But what I am afraid is that the new cartoon might be approached in more childish way. I did really like Evolution, but it would be weird to watch that kind of style if the story is to connect to TAS.

I do hope Jean gets a better characterization, though. Fingers crossed.

[Spideyvinnegar]

@Mercury: Thanks for sharing. It is indeed gorgeous. What a beautiful couple!

@CoCoBandz and @Spideyvinnegar: Great to see you guys here.

I hope the 97 cartoon is in line with the 90s comics when it comes to Scott and Jean and the silly love triangle is a non-issue. I'll share this yet again, from their wedding issue, the letter Logan wrote to them which makes it clear that even he understood why the other two belonged together.



I wish the producers let both Scott and Jean be heroes who happen to be married. Some hand-holding while fighting, some cute kisses and that should be fine for most episodes. And then, let their relationship be front and centre in stories where it's more relevant, for instance, if Strife ever decides to get upset with mum and dad or something.

Since Inferno doesn't make sense for the cartoon, maybe Jean actually gestates Nathan in that universe and he still has to be sent to the future? Maybe Rachel brings their minds 2000 years into the future so they raise the baby? I'd like to watch that.

But what I am afraid is that the new cartoon might be approached in more childish way. I did really like Evolution, but it would be weird to watch that kind of style if the story is to connect to TAS.

I do hope Jean gets a better characterization, though. Fingers crossed.

Thanks, I was in the jean/scott threads around 2016-2017 but now I decided to come back and just found my old acc so cringe I had to make a new one lol
I really hope you're right and we'll not have to worry about the love triangle bs
Plus I hope this influences the comics and we get a lot more of jean and scott stories who knows maybe even a solo