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  1. #76
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    I think current writers ignore it (if it still exists) or have completely written it out simply because it's no longer as important or relevant to these two characters today, as it was back in the 80's.

    But I could be wrong...Duggan could surprise us with a PR moment now that they're actively working on the same team, in the same book. Either way...I'm good.
    Me too, actually. I can be happy, for different reasons, for them to have that rapport back or not.


    --

    @Placid Mule: Thanks for sharing one of those mid-tk-flight kisses. This might be my favourite even though the art is weird. But I love everything about it!

    I'll try to share the one in the Central Park later. :)

    --

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Thanks, I'll add it to the list.
    Sorry, I forgot to tell you. It's the volume 2 of the X-Men '92. It was published after the Secret Wars thing, but it's still the same premise, I guess.

    It's not that great of an issue, though. So I wouldn't hurry. :)


    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I have personal issues with how relaxed Marvel is with the use of telepathy, I think it's more dangerous and corrupting than they portray it as and they've made it much too powerful...
    Yep and yep. I have a friend who would love to have this power. I told him many times: "I'd hate it. I'd feel constantly tempted and constantly reprimanding myself not to abuse this power".

    And I certainly do feel super annoyed by its use in comics from time to time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I even used to have trouble with the Rapport between Jott, but understanding it as a bridge and not a one-way tunnel makes me appreciate it more.
    Again: not canon. Just my interpretation of it.

    I'd say it's actually more than a bridge. It's like two houses to which you build an extention in between, forming a bigger new house. The original houses are still there, but they're fully connected now.

    No matter how you see it, I'd say it's always been a two-way street. If Jean wanted to have it as a one-way tunnel, she wouldn't need it the rapport at all. I think it was always about having an extra level of intimacy.

    But I don't suppose that means they read each other's thoughts all the time. I think the best equivalent to real life would be when you're in the same room with someone. You're kinda aware of them even if you're not interacting. So if they become distressed or they call you, you can immediately answer, you know? You can hear if they're typing or clicking their mouse, you hear if their humming a song or they're cursing... things like that.

    And you can always leave the room too, retreat to the part of your mind that is just yours [EDIT: although, if your partner needs you, then can easily reach you - that means Scott could do it too, even though he's not a telepath]. Or you can fully engage in conversations, games, telepathic/imaginary projections, etc... Literally, with two minds fused like that, their imagination is the limit to what they can create and experience together.

    And I suppose that's why Jean was able to create so much stuff (like the black box) to protect Scott's mind.
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 05-29-2021 at 12:52 PM.

  2. #77
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Next pictures have to do with a conversation I’m having with Lucyinthesky on Jean’s thread.

    The first is one of my favourite moments of the couple, when they reunite at the airport. I love how Scott says “No-- Jean, please. It's not all right. And we do have to talk about it! I want to talk about it! Really talk, no psychic rapport, no mutant gimmick, but good, old-fashioned communication”.

    God, I love him so much! :)

    It’s also a kiss for the series: “uh… guys, I know the world sometimes disappears when you look into each other’s eyes, but, you do realise you’re in public, right?” :D


  3. #78
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Here, Lucyinthesky.



    I think that's sexy. Do you agree? :)

  4. #79
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Next pictures have to do with a conversation I’m having with Lucyinthesky on Jean’s thread.

    The first is one of my favourite moments of the couple, when they reunite at the airport. I love how Scott says “No-- Jean, please. It's not all right. And we do have to talk about it! I want to talk about it! Really talk, no psychic rapport, no mutant gimmick, but good, old-fashioned communication”.

    God, I love him so much!

    It’s also a kiss for the series: “uh… guys, I know the world sometimes disappears when you look into each other’s eyes, but, you do realise you’re in public, right?”

    THANK YOU Grinning Soul and l YES I would love if they interacted like this again, one of the first comics I read from them was at this time, this era was great for them as a couple, I especially enjoyed The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix were they raised Nathan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Here, Lucyinthesky.



    I think that's sexy. Do you agree?
    That´s very sexy and I miss those kind of scenes, would be great to see them again on their home in the moon, it´s exactly what I feel has been lacking on their participation with Krakoa. I could see them talking about the QC decisiones, deciding to form the X-men, choosing to make it an election,Jean talking about her job on X-force, her being wary of Hank just some good old fashioned character interaction.

    I guess the Magneto image is for fatal attractions or Legion Quest, it´s a little out of place but hilarious, I feel like saying "Magnus, wait your turn, this is a couple´s moment. XD
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 05-29-2021 at 03:34 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  5. #80
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    THANK YOU Grinning Soul and l YES I would love if they interacted like this again, one of the first comics I read from them was at this time, this era was great for them as a couple, I especially enjoyed The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix were they raised Nathan :D
    Awn… I love that story too. I love how the characters around them would be annoyed that they couldn’t keep their hands off each other. Even after years living in that horrible place, with no comfort, all kinds of difficulties and inhabiting bodies that weren’t even theirs.

    Also, I love them being parents. And Jean doesn’t get many chances to be one, so… *sigh* :D

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    That´s very sexy and I miss those kind of scenes, would be great to see them again on their home in the moon, it´s exactly what I feel has been lacking on their participation with Krakoa. I could see them talking about the QC decisiones, deciding to form the X-men, choosing to make it an election,Jean talking about her job on X-force, her being wary of Hank just some good old fashioned character interaction.
    Yes! But we know for sure they didn’t talk about the Crucible before it happens. *sigh* - of a different kind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    I guess the Magneto image is for fatal attractions or Legion Quest, it´s a little out of place but hilarious, I feel like saying "Magnus, wait your turn, this is a couple´s moment. XD
    Oh my God! That *actually* made me laugh out loud. Thank you, my friend! I couldn’t agree more. “Mags? Shoo. We’re having a moment here”. :D

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Awn… I love that story too. I love how the characters around them would be annoyed that they couldn’t keep their hands off each other. Even after years living in that horrible place, with no comfort, all kinds of difficulties and inhabiting bodies that weren’t even theirs.
    Also, I love them being parents. And Jean doesn’t get many chances to be one, so… *sigh*
    Yes it´s one of the things I like about Krakoa, them being with Nate and Rachel.

    Yes! But we know for sure they didn’t talk about the Crucible before it happens. *sigh* - of a different kind.
    The QC disccussed it supposely but we didn´t see the votes, we saw Scott being wary of it and I guess Jean too but if that´s the case, she or Kurt or Ororo could have proposed a law to counteract crucible and find a better solution for decimated mutants. They are now part of a govement and should take responsibility for what it decides too imo.

    Oh my God! That *actually* made me laugh out loud. Thank you, my friend! I couldn’t agree more. “Mags? Shoo. We’re having a moment here”.
    Yes the image is cool but it´s out of place, he looks like a scorned lover instead of the team big bad adversary XD, I wish he had romantic storylines too, maybe one day.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 05-29-2021 at 09:00 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  7. #82
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Me too, actually. I can be happy, for different reasons, for them to have that rapport back or not.


    --

    @Placid Mule: Thanks for sharing one of those mid-tk-flight kisses. This might be my favourite even though the art is weird. But I love everything about it!

    I'll try to share the one in the Central Park later.

    --


    Sorry, I forgot to tell you. It's the volume 2 of the X-Men '92. It was published after the Secret Wars thing, but it's still the same premise, I guess.

    It's not that great of an issue, though. So I wouldn't hurry.
    Yeah, my to-read list is pretty long, and I've got piles of books that I haven't read on top of that, so it'll be a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Yep and yep. I have a friend who would love to have this power. I told him many times: "I'd hate it. I'd feel constantly tempted and constantly reprimanding myself not to abuse this power".

    And I certainly do feel super annoyed by its use in comics from time to time.
    I'd rather have telekinesis between the two. Multiple applications even at a low level and no temptation to violate the privacy of others.

    If I could write one book at Marvel, I would tackle this question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Again: not canon. Just my interpretation of it.

    I'd say it's actually more than a bridge. It's like two houses to which you build an extention in between, forming a bigger new house. The original houses are still there, but they're fully connected now.

    No matter how you see it, I'd say it's always been a two-way street. If Jean wanted to have it as a one-way tunnel, she wouldn't need it the rapport at all. I think it was always about having an extra level of intimacy.

    But I don't suppose that means they read each other's thoughts all the time. I think the best equivalent to real life would be when you're in the same room with someone. You're kinda aware of them even if you're not interacting. So if they become distressed or they call you, you can immediately answer, you know? You can hear if they're typing or clicking their mouse, you hear if their humming a song or they're cursing... things like that.

    And you can always leave the room too, retreat to the part of your mind that is just yours [EDIT: although, if your partner needs you, then can easily reach you - that means Scott could do it too, even though he's not a telepath]. Or you can fully engage in conversations, games, telepathic/imaginary projections, etc... Literally, with two minds fused like that, their imagination is the limit to what they can create and experience together.

    And I suppose that's why Jean was able to create so much stuff (like the black box) to protect Scott's mind.
    Well, I just love your interpretation so much that I shall now accept it as canon.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  8. #83
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Me too, actually. I can be happy, for different reasons, for them to have that rapport back or not.


    --

    @Placid Mule: Thanks for sharing one of those mid-tk-flight kisses. This might be my favourite even though the art is weird. But I love everything about it!

    I'll try to share the one in the Central Park later.

    --


    Sorry, I forgot to tell you. It's the volume 2 of the X-Men '92. It was published after the Secret Wars thing, but it's still the same premise, I guess.

    It's not that great of an issue, though. So I wouldn't hurry.




    Yep and yep. I have a friend who would love to have this power. I told him many times: "I'd hate it. I'd feel constantly tempted and constantly reprimanding myself not to abuse this power".


    And I certainly do feel super annoyed by its use in comics from time to time.



    Again: not canon. Just my interpretation of it.

    I'd say it's actually more than a bridge. It's like two houses to which you build an extention in between, forming a bigger new house. The original houses are still there, but they're fully connected now.

    No matter how you see it, I'd say it's always been a two-way street. If Jean wanted to have it as a one-way tunnel, she wouldn't need it the rapport at all. I think it was always about having an extra level of intimacy.

    But I don't suppose that means they read each other's thoughts all the time. I think the best equivalent to real life would be when you're in the same room with someone. You're kinda aware of them even if you're not interacting. So if they become distressed or they call you, you can immediately answer, you know? You can hear if they're typing or clicking their mouse, you hear if their humming a song or they're cursing... things like that.

    And you can always leave the room too, retreat to the part of your mind that is just yours [EDIT: although, if your partner needs you, then can easily reach you - that means Scott could do it too, even though he's not a telepath]. Or you can fully engage in conversations, games, telepathic/imaginary projections, etc... Literally, with two minds fused like that, their imagination is the limit to what they can create and experience together.

    And I suppose that's why Jean was able to create so much stuff (like the black box) to protect Scott's mind.
    There's a backup in Classic X-Men where Jean and Storm almost come to blows over that. IIRC Jean's purse gets nabbed (I guess she didn't want to use TK in public to stop him) and he gets away from Storm by running underground, triggering her claustrophobia. Being at the front or Ororo's mind, Jean picks this up and Storm thinks she was probed. But, as Jean explains, the issue with telepathy isn't reading minds, but NOT reading them. It's a constant fight.

    I'd hate to have that power - every petty thought the people I care about have, but don't voice because they aren't petty people, would be mine to have. Every sneering comment to one's self about me or my loved ones from random passers by, would also be mine. Telepathy requires a very thick skin to not drive one mad if they have it.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  9. #84
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Yes it´s one of the things I like about Krakoa, them being with Nate and Rachel.
    Except we didn’t see much interaction between them, so I’m still craving it…

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    The QC disccussed it supposely but we didn´t see the votes, we saw Scott being wary of it and I guess Jean too but if that´s the case, she or Kurt or Ororo could have proposed a law to counteract crucible and find a better solution for decimated mutants. They are now part of a govement and should take responsibility for what it decides too imo.
    Certainly. It drives me crazy that we didn’t see the QC talking about it. But yeah, what can we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Yes the image is cool but it´s out of place, he looks like a scorned lover instead of the team big bad adversary XD, I wish he had romantic storylines too, maybe one day.
    Fingers crossed! :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Yeah, my to-read list is pretty long, and I've got piles of books that I haven't read on top of that, so it'll be a while.
    Isn’t it true for all comic book fans? :)

    That’s why I thought I should tell you not to hurry. It’s not a must-read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I'd rather have telekinesis between the two. Multiple applications even at a low level and no temptation to violate the privacy of others.

    If I could write one book at Marvel, I would tackle this question.
    Oh, telekinesis would be a dream. But it would also make me the *the laziest* person ever! So it would probably not be a great idea! :D

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Well, I just love your interpretation so much that I shall now accept it as canon.
    Awn, that’s nice! I’m glad you like it. :)


    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    There's a backup in Classic X-Men where Jean and Storm almost come to blows over that. IIRC Jean's purse gets nabbed (I guess she didn't want to use TK in public to stop him) and he gets away from Storm by running underground, triggering her claustrophobia. Being at the front or Ororo's mind, Jean picks this up and Storm thinks she was probed. But, as Jean explains, the issue with telepathy isn't reading minds, but NOT reading them. It's a constant fight.
    When I write psychic powers, I make a clear distinction between telepathy and empathy.

    Telepathy deals with the rational thoughts and empathy deals with emotions.

    I think it’s much easier for a psychic to shield themselves from telepathy than empathy (for Jean, specifically, empathic perceptions are probably very difficult for her to block because she’s an empathetic person regardless of her mutant powers). And I think that, even when they’re shielded, if the thoughts or emotions are “loud” enough, they can feel a push on the shields and the push itself tells them a lot, even if they can’t “read” the thoughts or emotions.

    Does that make sense to you?


    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    I'd hate to have that power - every petty thought the people I care about have, but don't voice because they aren't petty people, would be mine to have. Every sneering comment to one's self about me or my loved ones from random passers by, would also be mine. Telepathy requires a very thick skin to not drive one mad if they have it.
    Yes! Exactly!

    I know I have some ugly thoughts about people I truly love every now and then and it doesn’t mean I love them any less, but I’d hate them to “hear” those thoughts because it would hurt them.

    So imagine the opposite is also true. They must have ugly thoughts about me too that would certainly hurt me if I had to hear them.


    ---

    @Hizashi and @Gray Lensman: it's so good to see both of you around! :)
    EDIT: @TheDeadSpace: and you too! I'm so sorry. I can't believe I didn't mention it before.
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 05-30-2021 at 01:59 AM.

  10. #85
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    The mid-tk-flight kiss I'd promised:



    Is there anything more visually appealing when it comes to romance? :D

    I know, I know. I'm incorrigible. But I love these characters so much and I want them to have it all! :)
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 06-29-2021 at 01:47 AM.

  11. #86
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Isn’t it true for all comic book fans?

    That’s why I thought I should tell you not to hurry. It’s not a must-read.
    I just keep buying hardcovers, they're my weakness. In fact, I'm trying to get every X-Men omnibus and I saw that they're reprinting a bunch of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Oh, telekinesis would be a dream. But it would also make me the *the laziest* person ever! So it would probably not be a great idea!

    Awn, that’s nice! I’m glad you like it.
    I'm a field electrician so telekinesis would make my job easier and safer. And yes, I would also become quite lazy otherwise...

    It just makes sense to me, this is how it should go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    When I write psychic powers, I make a clear distinction between telepathy and empathy.

    Telepathy deals with the rational thoughts and empathy deals with emotions.

    I think it’s much easier for a psychic to shield themselves from telepathy than empathy (for Jean, specifically, empathic perceptions are probably very difficult for her to block because she’s an empathetic person regardless of her mutant powers). And I think that, even when they’re shielded, if the thoughts or emotions are “loud” enough, they can feel a push on the shields and the push itself tells them a lot, even if they can’t “read” the thoughts or emotions.

    Does that make sense to you?


    Yes! Exactly!

    I know I have some ugly thoughts about people I truly love every now and then and it doesn’t mean I love them any less, but I’d hate them to “hear” those thoughts because it would hurt them.

    So imagine the opposite is also true. They must have ugly thoughts about me too that would certainly hurt me if I had to hear them.


    ---

    @Hizashi and @Gray Lensman: it's so good to see both of you around!
    EDIT: @TheDeadSpace: and you too! I'm so sorry. I can't believe I didn't mention it before.
    I guess that I've never been able to accept that a telepath can't stop themselves from overhearing things. It always makes me roll my eyes.

    There's an anime called Code Geass, where individuals have powers (Geass) and one of them can read thoughts. Now, the more their abilities are used, the more they expand, the harder it is to control them. That character eventually can't filter out the thoughts of people around him and so he flees society and begins using devices to block out his ability. I can accept that with this character, I can't accept it that Jean or Emma can't help but overhear those loud thoughts; it leaves me to conclude that they either aren't trying to respect others' privacy or they aren't as skilled as they pretend to be. I don't like coming to those conclusions.

    Yet another reason not to have telepathy.

    It's nice to pop in, I'm just lurking around.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  12. #87
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I just keep buying hardcovers, they're my weakness. In fact, I'm trying to get every X-Men omnibus and I saw that they're reprinting a bunch of them.



    I'm a field electrician so telekinesis would make my job easier and safer. And yes, I would also become quite lazy otherwise...

    It just makes sense to me, this is how it should go.



    I guess that I've never been able to accept that a telepath can't stop themselves from overhearing things. It always makes me roll my eyes.

    There's an anime called Code Geass, where individuals have powers (Geass) and one of them can read thoughts. Now, the more their abilities are used, the more they expand, the harder it is to control them. That character eventually can't filter out the thoughts of people around him and so he flees society and begins using devices to block out his ability. I can accept that with this character, I can't accept it that Jean or Emma can't help but overhear those loud thoughts; it leaves me to conclude that they either aren't trying to respect others' privacy or they aren't as skilled as they pretend to be. I don't like coming to those conclusions.

    Yet another reason not to have telepathy.

    It's nice to pop in, I'm just lurking around.
    With Code Geass every power goes out of control. Lelouch eventually has to wear contacts to prevent minor comments from becoming orders - for those who haven't watched it, the first time that happens he accidentally orders a genocide trying to explain what his power does "If, for example, I ordered you to kill all the Japanese...."

    Since the people who give the powers are death seeking immortals who can only be killed by a power holder - who then becomes the next immortal who can grant power, the monkey's paw aspect makes total sense in that universe.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  13. #88
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    With Code Geass every power goes out of control. Lelouch eventually has to wear contacts to prevent minor comments from becoming orders - for those who haven't watched it, the first time that happens he accidentally orders a genocide trying to explain what his power does "If, for example, I ordered you to kill all the Japanese...."

    Since the people who give the powers are death seeking immortals who can only be killed by a power holder - who then becomes the next immortal who can grant power, the monkey's paw aspect makes total sense in that universe.
    That's my point exactly though, there is a set of rules or guidelines for those abilities so when the telepath/mind-reader starts overhearing everyone I buy it completely. Marvel's approach is so patchwork and case-by-case that I can't take it seriously.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  14. #89
    Mighty Member Grinning Soul's Avatar
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    I get what you mean, Hizashi, it's like the rapport, right? Too many writers writing it without some defined guidelines (and often using telepathic intrusions as shameful plot devises). As readers, all we can do is try to come up with an explanation that could work. Or just decide is not worth our time.

    The problem about the latter, for me, is that it keeps annoying me, so I try to come with up some headcannon that makes it easier to accept it.

    An analogy that works for me is that telepathy/empathy is like hearing, not sight. Meaning, if you don’t want to see, you can close your eyes. But you can’t close your ears.

    So, with that premise in mind, I think about telepathy/empathy as an antenna instead of ears, you can't really stop capturing things. You can only dial to different frequencies. The problem is that the more powerful you are, the more range you antena has, the more minds you capture, the harder it is to dial to a frequency no one is using… So, at best, you can try to find some frequency that is mostly static noise, but if someone is really screaming, if someone moves to that frequency, you’d feel it, even if you can’t understand their words because you’re not tuned in well.

    Please, don’t understand this as if I’m not trying to convince you. I’m just sharing one of the ideas that help me dealing with my own annoyance.


    EDIT: When I'm writing, I rarely use these plot devices. My telepaths are good at their shielding skills! :)
    --

    PS: Even if you’re just lurking around and popping in on occasion, it makes me happy. I always enjoy chatting with you guys. :)
    Last edited by Grinning Soul; 05-30-2021 at 12:53 PM.

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grinning Soul View Post
    Except we didn’t see much interaction between them, so I’m still craving it…
    Me too and now we will see how they take old man cable coming back my guess is that they will be happy to see him but also mourn the loss of their boy Nathan.

    Certainly. It drives me crazy that we didn’t see the QC talking about it. But yeah, what can we do?
    Ask questions until the writers tire of it and write it out? it´s one option.

    Fingers crossed!
    Yes please it´s been a long time, if Big A can have his romance so can Mags imo
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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