Scott and Jean Appreciation Thread 2021

[Grinning Soul]

Thanks, I was in the jean/scott threads around 2016-2017 but now I decided to come back and just found my old acc so cringe I had to make a new one lol
I really hope you're right and we'll not have to worry about the love triangle bs
Plus I hope this influences the comics and we get a lot more of jean and scott stories who knows maybe even a solo

Welcome back, then! :)

Well... my previous post was more about what I hope it will happen than what I think will. 'Cause I really don't know what to expect from the cartoon at this point.

For instance: will they try to keep adapting comic book stories as close to the original as possible? Will they create their own story from that point on? Will they start from that point but kill half of the team so other X-Men character will come onboard? Will they shift the tone to a target younger audiences? Will they - unlike the current X-office - understand that the X-Men *must* be heroes?

There's just so much we don't know. I'm just hoping for the best at this point.

And I do hope that Marvel finally understands the narrative and commercial potential of having a genuine epic couple and let them shine as such. Like I said in previous posts, it is a *very* rare thing to have two characters who can and do share equal narrative gravitas and heroism, who have very distinctive personalities that still match well, and a relationship dynamics that is interesting without having to rely on cheap drama.

Like Logan said in his letter to them: "you go together like fire and ice... like a hurricane and its eye. It sounds strange but it fits. One can't exist without the other - each one makes the whole stronger than the parts". Now any writer could come up with these lines, but the thing about Jean and Scott is that, in their case, it's actually true!

It's *so* frustrating that Marvel doesn't see what they have in their hands!

Anyway, the cartoon could be a great opportunity to change that perception and let it permeate to the comics and the MCU films eventually [EDIT: after all, they did get married in the cartoon before the comics]. But that's really just my hope. I don't have any particular reason to believe it will be the case.


EDIT: I'd like to see a duo mini-series of theirs too. Because I'd love to see them working on their relationship, but I don't think it's easily done on a team book. And, like I said, while I want their epic relationship to shine, I don't want it to outshine all the other characters on the book. I'm an old fan who believe that a team book should be about the whole group, with eventual focus on some characters depending on the story, sure. But no character should have an actual secondary role in a team book.

[Spideyvinnegar]

@Grinning Soul
Wow great post fr
People need to get over the fact marvel is never going to end the jean/scott relationship because they was, are and will be one of their biggest couple, they can't get rid of them at all

We're not in 90s or 00s anymore nobody wants to see two guys fighting over a girl like she doesn't have the right to just choose whoever she wants to stay with, we don't wanna see logan becoming a creepy around jean, we don't want cyke as the obsessive boyfriend whose only role is cockblocking logan and we sure don't wanna Jean depicted as a character who just can't come up with her own decisions on her love life

I'm sure they realized that the moment jean walked past logan and emma and kissed Scott, I feek like at this moment they really intended on having Jean and Scott settle down and make Logan move on but once again they were too afraid to end the stupid love triangle and instead gave us this stupid throuple thing cause they think "now they're all having sex thats exactly what yall wanted right fellow kids ?" without realizing how OOC it is, theres a lot of characters in x-men who could fit into a poly relationship but Jean and Scott just aren't one of these characters, it doesn't fit into their personalities at all, they couldn't even come up with a clear explanation on this throuple lol I just hope this bs ends in the next run and we forget it ever happened just like the beast/jean thing

But calm down my fellow jott shippers it's not the first time marvel disrespect one of their biggest couples like this and regrets it later on idk if any of you like spider-man but us peter/MJ fans had to go though a lot of bs too, they messed up their relationship and kept trying to pair peter and MJ with other characters but after spider fans kept voicing their disappointment over the treatment marvel was giving to their biggest couple marvel finally has been working on fixing their relationship

Soon X-men is joining MCU and just like peter and MJ I have high hopes this iconic couple gonna finally get the treatment they deserve

[Grinning Soul]

I don’t know how far back you read previous posts so I’ll repeat what I said before (apologies in advance if you read it already).

Marvel can always break Jean and Scott apart. And I’d be sad and think it’s a waste of a good couple, but I could live with that as long as they remained best friends.

The problem is that I don’t think they’d keep them apart unless one of them is dead.

Take Kitty and Piotr for example. How many times one writer put them together only for the next to break them apart? It got to the point she left him at the altar.

No. Just no. I can’t deal with it with Scott and Jean.

If they are to be broken apart, break them apart and burn those romantic bridges down.

The problem is I don’t think Marvel can do that. They can’t do that with less significant couples, do we really believe they’ll be able to control themselves when it comes to Scott and Jean?

So just let them be together already. Stop with the silly drama. Make those writers go watch Outlander or something to understand a romantic relationship doesn’t need to be detrimental of the protagonism of the characters, that one doesn’t need to be stronger than the other or defined by the other as a character and that you - most definitely - don’t need a love triangle to screw up with a stable relationship and make it “interesting”.


PS: The polyamory is absurd for those characters in particular and since they never bothered actually doing their part as professional writers to establish it as something plausible, since they seem to be gaslighting us into believe we imagined the whole thing, then I'm not wasting my time on it either.

[MarvelMaster616]

In celebration of the X-Men animated series coming back, I’ll share this wonderful little piece I found on Twitter.

EA49692F-7199-45DC-A195-6439182FD844.jpg

[Grinning Soul]

In celebration of the X-Men animated series coming back, I’ll share this wonderful little piece I found on Twitter. :o

EA49692F-7199-45DC-A195-6439182FD844.jpg

Awn... be still my heart! :)

Thanks for sharing!

[Lucyinthesky]

I am completely ready to see this version of them again. Favorite couple from this series.

[Lucyinthesky]

I know that it is implied the agent was there to assassinate Xavier in X-Men 4.I read it differently,to me Xavier was talking about the successful assassination of X-Force #1.

Yes Xavier was talking about the succesful assassination of X-force on X-men #4 by Hickman but I am not talking about that, I am talking about HoX #1 in which Magneto engages with the ambassadors instead of Charles because they had reasons to think an agent was send to kill off Xavier, which actually happened. Erik and the Cuckos were there to stop this attempt.

The agent in turn was responding to mutant powerplay giving humanity no room but to resort to desperate measures. Some could take it as a tacit confession ,while I took it on the face of all that was said during the meeting.First of all I think apart from the country dignitaries the two guys were SHIELD and STRIKE respectively(don't remember individual names).So for me one of the guys- both agents of a supra national security agency-having a holstered gun is not out of the ordinary to jump to the conclusion that he is an assasin.As a special agent in a foreign land ,a gun is pretty standard issue for personal protection.Moreover while they were trained to resist telepathy, Esmee (was it?) was confident that she cracked them she even said something to that effect, and she simply said he has a gun, didn't say he was there to kill Xavier.So I did not read it that way. Even if I am wrong and Xavier was accusing him at the Davos meeting(even though I think he was referencing the Xeno attack) because Esmee did not reveal anything to at least make Magneto say that out of contempt for the attempt on Xavier's life, then it goes back to Magneto's mutant superiority mantra.

I agree a foreing agent is expect to have weapons but at a diplomacy meeting, this is a reason to end all kind of diplomatic communication unless everyone there has weapons and this was previously agreed by all parties before going, like at this type of meetins even the food eaten needs to be aproved by everyone before engaging in the meeting.

I also agree Xavier was talking about the X-force attempt and Magneto here was mostly showing Krakoa diplomatic stance of keeping close borders, Krakoa will have it´s own culture but will engage economically with the rest of the world once it´s been admited as part of the UN but I agree with you his tone was not conducive to a peaceful end of meeting but given the fact the other ambassadors already thought only in terms of Krakoa being a military menace I think magneto went for the old approach of not engaging with them on equal footing and instead showing them they already knew their standing in relation to Krakoa.

I have a suspicion of Magneto's supremacist tint,I said the same to Soul.I cannot understand how he swapped his animus as a victim of a human on human persecution(Holocaust) to mutant on human animus. He knows the Jewish people are human (or majority of them in this x-gene reality just like he and Kitty are mutants who are of Jewish ethnicity ,it is natural to presume there were German/Nazi mutants at the time even if I don't know any nazi mutant.I know the first class film took artistic liberty ..so that doesn't inform my assumption) Anyway the way he just abandoned or switched his Jewish heritage which is the common kinship he shares even with non mutant Jews for a purely mutant heritage is the greatest sleight of hand in comic history for me. On its face it's bewildering.This makes me look at Magneto as a hypocrite who seized on the Holocaust to justify his pro mutant agenda .It is not vocalised in comics because it is glaring hypocrisy that writers rather overlook but I don't. I just think Magneto in Krakoa is the Magneto with the mask off.

I don´t see things this way, I will explain next:

Magneto of First Class has nothing to do with comics magneto besides the more superficial common ground, like powers and parts of his past imo Fox really didn´t want him as more than the villain of the week and his actions sometimes didn´t made sense. Things got a little better with the second trilogy but even in this they made his main motivations a personal matter, not a political one and comics Magneto definitely has political reasons behind his actions.

Not a lot of people at marvel know about his Jewish heritage, besides his children, Lorna, Wanda and Pietro and old friends like Gabrielle Haller who was also jewish holocaust survivor and who defended him during his two trials, Charles, Moira, Storm, Scott, Wolverine, Rogue and some other X-men, Dr Doom, because he used tecnology to investigate him and Cap America but he doens´t know all the details and still not even all of them know or use his real jewish name and this was done on purpose, because Magneto didn´t want the world to see his actions as a representation of the Jewish people, when he´s doing it as a personal crusade for getting mutants rights. This doesn´t mean he has stoped caring from his jewish heritage, in fact the reason why he accepted to be judged for his actions as Magneto during his first trial was because he didn´t want Mystique´s brotherhood to menace or hurt the other people who were visiting the holocaust musseum, some of which were fellow survivors as well.


Magneto doesn´t use the holocaust as an excuse for his actions at all but the fact it´s part of his story, this event informs his actions in a big way but it´s not all of it,after the holocaust he tried to live a normal human life and even after his daughter was killed, he still went to Israel and tried to live as a normal person there. He didn´t really become "Magneto" until he found out about the papperclip event, in which foreing occidental goverments were using Nazi scientist to get an egde on the Soviet Union, pretty much giving them an out, which just served to prove to him humanity would just keep going on oppresing different groups for their self interest, which made him decide to become Magneto. Now, even as Magneto, his actual mission is not about killing humanity, as Apocalypse would do but about a paternalistic/Authoritasictic view of him trying to put things in order in the world even if he has to use force and making a comparision of humanity behaving like children being willing to hurt and kill each other and that he was just not going to let mutants suffer the same way other groups had suffered in the past and he didn´t really began to change this mentality until he almost killed Kitty and it´s not a coincidence Kitty being jewish moved him to truly try to change.



After this he tried the X-men way for a while but found it didn´t suit him so he became a separatist and he has keep being that to a bigger or less extend until the Krakoa era.

[Lucyinthesky]

Another thing is important to understand Magneto is that he doesn´t justify his hostility to humanity, even to himself, he´s not your typical villain who believes they are the heros of the story but from his pov his actions are neccesary, especially after mutant persecution has just grown and become extreme instead of getting better and for this same reason he has tried to change his methods so they do actually help mutants instead of hurting their situation more.








Now how marvel goes around with his character, not very well, I think they don´t want to get too much into politics so they prefer to reduce magneto to the supremacist villain who wants to slave humanity or the cool edgy guy when he´s neither, really, without getting too much into politics and that´s fine because comics don´t have to be serious or super complex all the time but I do take issue when a writer like tries to erase everything about his character until he´s unrecognizable, because he presents a good counter argument to the X-men traditional pov and there´s space enough for their povs to be right while at the same time not being enough to address the mutant particular situation, giving way to other povs that may help enrich even more the X-men Mythos.

[Lucyinthesky]

I hope youÂ’re feeling fully recovered now.

IÂ’ve been very stressed because of people being jerks and bureaucracy. I havenÂ’t had time or emotional energy to properly grief...

I hope you feel better now Soul, take all the time you need

Exactly! The reason TAS' Phoenix/Dark Phoenix saga was so good was because they did two things right:

1) They established Jean as a character who loved and was loved by the other X-Men.
2) They kept the story super close to the source.

ThatÂ’s why it works. And since this is the place for the gushing:

Exactly this she´s a badass but she shows emotion, she´s not cold hearted, she´s a naturally warm and caring person who has her edges but she often tries to show and be better all the time, this is why Dark phoenix worked for her character so very well, because you truly mourn along with the X-men, the fact such a caring person is behaving that way and just like them you want her to overcome this force and them to suceed in bringing her backand you felt Scott´s angst and sadness for her situation in a real way.

You knowÂ… Marvel just donÂ’t get it, right? You canÂ’t get any two characters and make this work. It takes two characters who are very special by themselves and match this well together. Epic love is a recipe that requires very rare ingredients, thatÂ’s why itÂ’s such a rare treat.

Agreed

And what does Marvel do? Instead of understanding what they have in their hands and allowing this couple to occupy the place of iconic-ness it deserves amongst all the other great couple of literature (which again: are ridiculously rare), they try to dirty, cheapen and sabotage this relationship at every turn.

IÂ’ll never understand this self-destructive behaviour of their part.

I understand they think it can lead to edgy stories but it´s not worth it at all when they ruin something that was great in the making of the new story.

As for JeanÂ’s character in TAS, her power levels are laughable for reasons I donÂ’t really get. And worse: sheÂ’s such an incompetent fighter. Some people still think of her like that because of the cartoon!But other aspects of her personality were portrayed well, for instance how caring and compassionate she is. So I canÂ’t really completely hate the depiction of character, you know?

Yes I understand it and I get she was badly done on the powers aspect but I think they made up from it with their version of the Phoenix Saga, seeing her salving the universe with the MKraan Crystal erased all those times I saw her fall in Tas. Honestly when people talk as if she´s weak, I am just like "Weak how? Are you sure we are talking about the same character?

When Mags is well-written, he steals *every* scene. The problem is that hasnÂ’t been well written lately.

Agreed and it´s a constant frustration for me, I don´t even need him to steal every scene, I just want him to be well written and I don´t think that´s too much to ask.

If this was nowadays, people would be throwing a hissy-fit because heÂ’s touching the clothes of a teenager girl - such a perv!

I have not seen this take yet and I am happy to have avoided it so far but I get your point, often fans use can and will any out of context scene to suggest something that didn´t happen at all just to paint that character badly and it´s so annoying, like my boy has enough bad scenes of his own to have fans taking out of context other panels, thank you. The good news is that most readers understand what happened in this scene, he was just trying to help and caring for Dani and the new mutants in his own way.

Funy story: some writers at the time thought this was too fluffy a scene for Magneto, like nope, he´s Magneto, how dare he try to clean up someone else´s room?, so they decided to write him extra edgy on fatal attractions, especially that scene with poor Logan, so in an indirect way, poor wolvie got his adamantium taken out because Erik thought it was a good idea to clean up the New Mutants bedroom. I always lol when I remember this. Like let the man have his cute fluffy moments, he has a lot of edgy moments already marvel.

Meanwhile, they have no trouble with the suggestion of another teenager girl (or a child) being raped, impregnated, forced to have the baby and then forced to forget about it.The world for you, ladies and gentlemen.

I guess they see one scene as tragic while another as perverted, even if they have to do some giant thought gimnastics to get it done. The world needs help indeed.

[QUOTE]Lack of good editorial allows writers to depict characters the way they see fit, even if it breaks the internal logic of the character. They sometimes stain the character for the sake of telling a mediocre - at best - story. It doesnÂ’t seem very smart in the long run, but wellÂ… those people donÂ’t seem to understand that concept of considering the effects of their story in the long run.

ThatÂ’s why I mean when I say theyÂ’re unprofessional and they donÂ’t really love the medium. Someone who loves comic books should understand that those toys arenÂ’t yours. You play with them, but you donÂ’t get to break them or deface them to the point theyÂ’re unrecognisable.

Agreed especially if after the fact no one wants to pick up the pieces, this happened to so many characters is not even funy and then they wonder why older and new fans get tired of keeping up with the comics, how can they keep them engaged when they misuse their characters so many times? They need to be more careful with that before it gets to a point in which fans feel nothing matters because the writers themselves break the verosimilitude of the story.

The reason people donÂ’t see she was there to be the girlfriend is that Percy didnÂ’t write her as TAS Jean: tripping on a wire and falling on her face. He made her say some edgy lines and have some power feats. ThatÂ’s all it takes to make people disregard the rest.

Yes I have seen this often, writers doing badass scenes with their female characters but not truly exploring them, their motivations, thought process or forcing it so they can keep being supporting characters of their male counterparts.

If they just wrote every character with their motivations in mind, the story would be better and I get they would get even better ideas for future stories born from the motivations of the characters and not forced by the plot.

At the same time, people who hate Scott will keep insisting sheÂ’s just his wife whenever theyÂ’re in the same book, no matter how much sheÂ’s shining and heÂ’s being incompetently hugged by a gorilla, while making a stupid joke instead of ricochetting his beam, which is something he seems to have forgotten how to do.

So really: they should just write Scott and Jean as the couple they used to be and let haters hate.

Agreed like just write the characters as themselves, with their motivations, it´s not really something big to ask.

Victor even used his wind machine but he didnÂ’t take 1st place. :P

Exactly Victor understimted Magnus cape game, he should have brought his gala cape instead of his wind machine but I gess he was too worried Magnus wanted to have a better alliance with Namor than him. XD Like really, the best part of this scene is that both Magneto and Victor agreed to support Namor´s side of the argument yet they can´t help but argue over their motivations behind their support of him, they argue even when they agree and that´s too funy to me.

I donÂ’t know. I think Bei is the kind of gal who would want to be carried. Isca on the other handÂ… :P

Lol I could see them trying to carry the other after having a good old fashioned fight as foreplay

I agree. ItÂ’s hard to find a partner for Mags. Especially if weÂ’re thinking of a long-term relationship.

Yes and it´s a shame I am starving for a romantic story with him and I really didn´t enjoy his time with Rogue, not only because this was akin to Emma, Scott and Jean triangle with my boy being Emma, just without the cheating. The problem is that I would like a fulfulling romantic partner for him in which both characters shine and get better with this relationship while his brief relationship with Rogue didn´t really helped either character to grow up, they do make good friends but they don´t suit each other as romantic partners imo and when you add the fact Rogue wants Magneto to become a fully X-man because it was good for her while he thinks more in terms of his relationship to the X-men being that of allies, you can see that from the beggining they were not going to last and I actually like Gambit too much to break his heart with Rogue and Magnus relationship.

[Lucyinthesky]

As for BriarÂ… given their history, if would be hard not to write their relationship as toxic in some way. While I have no problem with the presence of toxic and/or dysfunctional relationships in fiction, I do have a major problem when the writer doesnÂ’t portray it for what it is.I can see itÂ’s actually harmful for the people who consume the story, especially if theyÂ’re younger.Have such relationships in the narratives by all means, but call a spade a spade and show the bad side and the psychological damage they inflict.

To be fair to Cullen Bunn, he did write and framed this relationship as totally toxic on both sides and once it served it´s purpose he himself made it go away while keeping the things that mattered, like Briar being an actual supporting person for mutants to the point of becoming an ally to the acolytes and the X-men, she didn´t lie about it. Its was liked by the readers as a strange and weird interesting relationship but just not something you could see in a healthy way.

Again: thatÂ’s why you need a good editor. A good editor should not allow it to happen.
DonÂ’t get me started on Morrison's runÂ…
1 data page less than Inferno #1. Wo-hoo!

Lol I still hope inferno at least introduces something interesting and it seems destiny will become a main character so it´s possible the story will be worth it, I just fear where will Magneto end after the story is done.

Put the little magnet down, Erik. You can play with it after the planet is safe. :P
Take your mind out of the gutter, Lucy. I meant this:

Obviously! :P

Lol I will just let you know I don´t think is little by any means and yes Erik needs more vacations, he never takes them, Charles was just messing with him on purpose, Charles could have waited to them stop kissing before appearing out of nothing XD . Is a testament to their friendship Magnus indeed went for the X-men and helped them scape murder world and fought the Beyonder even when he knew Beyonder was going to beat the hell out of him.

Didn’t she say she *had* to break him? I don’t have the energy to look for it. At this point, I don’t care enough to check.
But I donÂ’t think she meant she broke his mental health, but more his spirit, his hope for a future where co-existence could be achieved harmoniously, instead of imposed.

Yes I also think she meant his spirit, not his mental health, I think she was just thinking maybe she helped create Onslaught because he obviously didn´t appear on her other lives.

[Lucyinthesky]

CHUCKles! Come with momma. IÂ’ll keep you safe. Lucy will behave now. :P

Get off this this silly black jumpsuit and lose the helmet. Your Captain Picard uniform is waiting for you. Jump into it so we can go “engage” in some final-frontier nerdy adventure!

Yeah, IÂ’m going to stop myself now before I make an even more terrible joke. :P

Ok I am beggining to think Charly was safer with me Soul, I will allow the Captain Picard uniform because he looks great in it but don´t force him into anything else XD

What are the chances, though, when poor Charles canÂ’t deal with a z-lister teenage mutant? *Sigh*

You mean X-men unlimited? Sorry I forgot that story exits, as far as I know Charles, Also known as mister the only telepath able to stand Dark Phoenix powers, was playing with the kid but I liked Mags being worried about him, like aww, he´s so protective of him. That was cute.

**uck, marry, kill is not a game that belongs to either of our cultures, but I think it has potential to be really cool because both the questions and the answers can be so tricky and intelligent.

Agreed it makes you really think about the possibilities, I love this kind of games.

Anyway, when it comes to my partner, yes, I didn’t hide the fact I was crazy from the moment we met, so he can’t complain he didn’t know what he was getting himself into indeed. He’s crazy too, in a different way. And honestly? If he was too “normal” I probably wouldn’t have looked at him twice.

Agreed, I think when both partners have the same type of craziness or at least complementary hobbies is a good signal for a long term relationship. In my country we have a saying: "Of musician, poet and crazy we all have a little" and what would be life without any of these three elements?

All right. So let me get that prenup ready (IÂ’ll add more than 50% in case of betrayal if itÂ’s possible) before you steal him. But you donÂ’t get the Captain Picard suit! IÂ’m keeping that one.:PAnd be advised: if you try to get the suit, IÂ’ll steal MagÂ’s capes! :P

Noo his capes, I love them, they are so fluffy :P , you can keep the Picard suit and I will keep his Professor X one, it´s a deal and you can have half of Krakoa post "betrayal" but Emma may have some things to say about it, so be careful. She looks like she´s going to get a bigger part than Charles of the goverment in the near future.

Sing with Adele and me: “Let it burn!” :P

But think about the ecosystem Grinning Soul, lest not be so extreme, we can all just pretend nothing happened the last two years.

I think they "decompress" a bad premise too much and people arenÂ’t invested on those characters to begin with. Then the sales plummet and the book is to be cancelled and they have to deal with all the uninteresting plots they were introducing too fast. I think X-Factor is the perfect example of it. But if you need an even more obvious example look no further than X-Corp, where they took issues to simply form the god-damn board!

I also hate decompression stories and I think it´s truly hurting comics market, like comics are not so cheap as they used to be and readers can felt cheated by having just a third part of a story that looks like could have been done in one issue.

I think X-factor and X-corp suffered for not enough editing and their writers needing to understand they need to go more quickly with the story and adress the main objetive of the story before going into character interactions. It´s a shame because I have been hoping for anyone to tackle Selene as the badass she used to be.

I canÂ’t, LucyÂ…. I just canÂ’tÂ… How can they have thought that a book about a corporation shouldn't *start* without its board already formed? Did they really think this was an interesting plot for a *super hero comic book*? One that should last issues and issues? I canÂ’t Lucy!!!

I was reading it because I love Warren, but my god, that thing was a pain.

I only saw the previous and inderstood it wasn´t for me at all, I think Peter David did better with All New X-factor, when it comes to corporation type of stories.

You and I (and people like us) donÂ’t see a reason to do it. But some people actually like to fight.

I realised when a person is a hater of the character, theyÂ’ll hate the character and insist on seeing them through the most negative lens possible, no matter what you say. I also realise some people love to twist what youÂ’re saying because thatÂ’s how they win arguments or they get too emotional to the point they donÂ’t read what youÂ’re actually saying anymore or have their opinions about you (even though they donÂ’t know you) colouring how they read what youÂ’re sayingÂ…. when IÂ’m faced with any of those cases - and others - itÂ’s just pointless.

IÂ’m not being paid to interact with those people. IÂ’m not contractually obliged to do so either. So I just wonÂ’t. Talking about comics is a hobby to me and, as such, it should be fun.

Agreed when people begin to twist what I said to justify their argument is when I think is not worth it to keep arguing.Like if you are willing to go that far just to win an internet argument what hope is there to actually have an honest and fun exchange of povs, it´s pointless.

Write him as the Scott Summers IÂ’ve loved for most of my life? That would be enough for me.

But ideally, Scott would go through a deeper soul-searching. I think the whole Utopia era was wasted with how AvX played out. Those 10+ years of a slow slippery slope of “the end justifies the means” and all the psychological implications of what lead him to it was just… thrown away. It was supposed to be epic and cathartic, but his “hero journey” was abruptly cut short and then ignored. And a part of me will always be sad about what could have been. Not only because of Scott Summers himself but also for what it would mean to comic books as a medium: you rarely get the opportunity to tell a story arc that spans for over a decade…

Agreed it´s part of what makes me so mad at AvX like, the X-office was actually doing something new and interesting with the characters despite decimation, why they had to ruin all of it by introducing the Avengers out of nowhere and making Scott and the X-men the villains of their own story in their own title just because they were going to have a movie? like **** the MCU this was the X-men story, not an avengers story.

]Which is another reason why IÂ’d love to have a book for just Scott and Jean. Both of them, individually and as a couple, require more attention than what they can and should have in a group book.

I donÂ’t think any of the current writers have the sensibility to write this story, though, so IÂ’d settle to just having a good portrayal of both characters, really, that respected their continuity and internal logic.

What writer and artist would you choose to write them?

[Lucyinthesky]

Yeah, me too. But I really don’t think we’ll get it until some writer decides to break them apart.
And this is the kind of thing that Marvel should know *not* to do. A couple like them is a rare jewel. Having two characters of equal protagonism, equal gravitas in the mythos, equal degrees of heroism, with powers and personalities that match, and a dynamic that is complex enough to be compelling and interesting (meaning, theyÂ’re perfect for each other but their relationship isnÂ’t perfect) and enough shared history in which both characters and the relationship developedÂ… this is not something that is easily fabricated and itÂ’s not something that becomes meaningful in a couple of years.
It literally takes decades. And it’s precious.

Why would anyone throw it away? ItÂ’s not going to benefit the franchise. ItÂ’s not going to benefit the stories. It’s not going to benefit either of the characters.

So why???

I guess marvel just likes drama and some editors have the wrong idea that making the readers mad sells comics but I do think making an engaging story is what put marvel in the position it´s now and if they forget that, they will just keep losing more readership. Because how can you sell something mediocre at the cost of a good older story?

And if she is getting this kind of information from someone in a position to have this knowledgeÂ… how is that not convenient?

I guess we will find out in the future, right now, we are on the triple spy bussines.

I donÂ’t know, Lucy. IÂ’ve reached my saturation point when it comes to things that are convinient in this Krakoa era. And that makes me really intolerant to it nowadays. I canÂ’t help it. *shrug*

Yes I can see your point, I am tired as well, not because of the coveninece so much as the stories not really going where they are supposed to go and sacrificing the characters personality just makes me think this is all not worth the effort, there´s something interesting and potential there but it´s not being explored so I am ready for the next phase of X-men stories.

I think they can be as fab as they want with their capes. But they also have to bow down to the master! :P

Agreed completely, there´s a reason why they compite with each other, they know the master has them both beat ;p

Which is another cool dynamic that we donÂ’t see very often. LetÂ’s hope Mags will rejoin the S.W.O.R.D. cast.

Exactly, I just love how they are not truly friends, enemies, or long time adversaries but they do respect each other as people and even sometimes defend each other from other characters while knowing they have got their own thing going on and are always ready to have their say if they have to fight. It´s like a less confrontational version of their love-hate relationship with Reed and Charles respectively.

I donÂ’t know. I donÂ’t see any character development there. I see a character being written out of character for no reason. But, like I said, I donÂ’t care enough to be upset about it.

I see your point but I do think Johana is being currently better written than in the past, she was quite plain in her caracterization as an angry acolyte imo so seeing her as a diplomatic person who engages in ritual fights because she decided she wanted to improve her life and be a better person while still helping the mutant cause is an improvement on her characterization for me.

They wanted people to come to their stream service for everything Marvel superheroes. But guess what? IÂ’m not.

And I know IÂ’m just one and I make no difference. But I can only answer for myself and IÂ’m still not budging on that.

I understand the sentiment. I enjoyed seeing WandaVision and other series but yes, it´s quite clear Disney wants to keep the monopoly even if other estudios and series did better with some characters.

Tell that to everyone who thinks she was just a girlfriend/wife to Cyclops (and thatÂ’s why, amongst other things, they got married and *she* proposed -- obviously). Really. Those people donÂ’t read the same comics or never bothered to actually reading them. And some of those same people *actually* liked her in X-Force. I canÂ’t!

Yes like the best thing for Jean is to be herself, have her complex motivations and let her interact with Scott and Logan from that point, I don´t want her to be just Scott´s or Logan girlfriend and her and them lose more than they gain when marvel doesn´t write them as they are.

She and Scott gravitate towards each other since their adolescense because they complement each other very well and have grown as people since that time, while Logan is a friend to both that deeply cares about them even if he sometimes goes about it in a harsh way, even Logan criticism of Scott after Jean´s death during Morrison´s run was as much about Jean but also for Scott because he considers him a better person than he was showing himself as.

[Lucyinthesky]

It became clear by issue #3 that the X-Force was in the business of “deniable operations” when both Erik and Charles pretty much said that *to* the team. So if Jean had any illusions that things would be different, those illusions should have been broken completely.

LucyÂ… I should send you my full issue-by-issue rant about JeanÂ’s part in X-Force. ItÂ’s too much to unpack here.

Send it out If you want, I also think there´s a lot going on.

But I also regret not getting an any point, what Jean expected from this X-force team, if she was not to act when any of them went to far, then what was she expecting out of this team? Why leave after the fact instead of saying her pov and what role she wanted to play in the team? This is the problem when writers use the characters to push them for plot reasons but don´t explain the characters motivations for going certain ways. It´s just not believable.

Yes. ItÂ’s a matter of lesser evil at this point. She was horribly portrayed and the way she left was horrible, but at least sheÂ’s out.

If it was up to me, Jean wouldnÂ’t appear in that event at all. I hope sheÂ’s there strictly in the capacity of a telepath who can use CerebroÂ… But what are the chances?

Oh, my poor girlÂ…

Well from the preview art I saw it looks like Jean is indeed helping with Cerebro to scan Logan´s memories so there´s that. Hopefully Percy will keep them as close friends but not as lovers.

I donÂ’t know. IÂ’ve been so burnt before IÂ’m afraid of whatever writer. It got to a point that if theyÂ’re not breaking my favourites, IÂ’m happy. I just want them to survive as the characters they are, hoping better times will come.

I could not agree more, I just want all of them to have engaging stories from an exciting plot and their motivation present.

I hope so. Though I think Krakoa must be actively opposed on some fronts by mutant heroes.
I donÂ’t think IÂ’ll still be around to see it if it ever gets to that point.

I honestly don´t think this will happen, I can see Krakoa changing from the iside and becoming less controversial with time but who knows, I could be mistaken.

Again: itÂ’s a matter of convenience and timing.
Something like that is too brutal, too fast, too public for everyone to be so readily accepting it. One or two elements like this would be one thing, but weÂ’re being asked to just accept too much at once.

Most of those characters lived most of their lives in human societies. You donÂ’t break apart from that in that extent that quickly. Not while those structures still exists just outside your little island.ItÂ’s just not believable if you think about it for 1 second.

Agreed the story is using the characters as if they always lived on Krakoa and it´s been 100 years at least since it was introduces, instead of just one year.

Agreed. But that was HickmanÂ’s thinking: a new culture needs a new religion and Kurt is the religious X-Men so he should do it.
ThatÂ’s the depth of the character-driven considerations of this era. And Kurt is, unfortunately, a great example of how careless they are.
Spurrier, at least, saw that. But then his execution wasÂ… *sigh*Â… that.

Agreed if they could not or would not deal with the matter at hand, the story would have been better served by leaving that element out and have Kurt exploring Krakoa and trying to address it´s internal problems from the get go. I respect both writers but neither has shown to have a real handle on the concept of how religion or catholisim for that matter works from the pov of a faithful person like Kurt is. I noticed a lot of stereotypes as well and it would have been better for them let the matter well alone. Or at least do something of what Spurrier suggested, which is exploring other characters faiths and making them work together to address Krakoa´s issues but nothing was done with this either.

EFFING, YES!

Look, I was raised as a Catholic and I took it so seriously that when it came the time to take the sacrament of the “confirmation” I decided not to, even though my friends were going to and the whole preparation for it was supposed to be really fun.

But I gave the religion a serious look and I realised I disagreed too much with it to take that step that was so important and meaningful.

So for Kurt, who is a better person and Catholic than I ever was, to be going around and calling himself a priest is justÂ… ItÂ’s effing unthinkable!

Exactly, I am catholic and quite happy with it, we are mainly catholic in Mexico but there are also, of course, people who are agnostic or atheist or people from other religions such as Jewish, Musulman or Christians from different denominations all of this it´s part of daily life but we also think one´s spiritual beliefs are a deeply personal area of the person that they can keep personal or share if they so wish so I understand your choice and I could not agree more that kurt would never pretend to be a priest when he´s not, that´s catholic religion 101 and I tried to be understanding because Spurrier and Hickman are obviously not catholic but in an age where a quick wikipedia search could help, it´s not excuse to have Kurt act like this. Like no, just not.

Yes. And we had to see him and Jean opposing it vehemently and quitting the council as a response if they were outvoted

If death is the only way to restore the powers of those mutants, then it should be solemn and dignified and painless. And most importantly: it should be private. Not violent and glorified, exploited as a means to unite a nation. It should be respected and deeply personal. Not an effing spectacle.

What is wrong with those people that they would even consider it let alone implement it???

ItÂ’s the kind of thing that should have made any decent person walk away from that island.

Yes and I was hopeful Onslaught could explain this ocness but the story didn´t take itself too seriously so this character assesination was not really addressed properly but so much has happened since all of this began that I find myself just not caring anymore. To be honest, lest just advance to the next thing.

A million times yes!

ItÂ’s so wrong your stomach should be having a respose to the thought, let alone witnessing the actual thing. Seeing Kurt and Scott casually talking about it as they walk to go watch itÂ….

And thatÂ’s the issue Hickman chose to highlight in his interview???

Yes I was just like wth Hickman, how can you introduce something so OOC and then never address it yourself and just let other writer do a half hearted effort? like what was the story here? Why make them behave this way for no reason at all?

Burn Krakoa down, I say. That thing is rotten to the core. ThereÂ’s no saving it.

Lol well maybe Orchis will do the thing but I do think that what will happen is that Krakoa will change slowly, it´s that or the writers and editors will pretend it didn´t happen.

I canÂ’t even start with Way of X. I canÂ’t. There was no reason for that book to exist. *Nothing* came out of it other than an even sillier reason for that place to exist.
I just want to forget about it too, since *nothing* meaningful is coming from that.

I liked parts of it but yes, if it wanted to leave a bigger impression they should have put more effort into making the story have internal logic and making Onslaught an actual menace but as things developed, I think this was more a continuation to Legion story than about kurt or the crucible to be honest and it would have been better to be told so from the get go imo.

But the problem is that I don’t think things can remain civil… People throw “hate speech” and “violence” into the conversation as if they were prepositions nowadays.

You know, with more hate speech they throw the words have less meaning, because they become usual speech instead of hate speech, it´s the normalization of hate, this means they are adding a big grade of toxicity to the language and I can´t see this leading to anything good.

I know, Lucy, I know. I just want it to be over too.
This whole era. So we can pretend it never happened.

I still think some parts are salvagable but boy, did Leah put a canon on Lorna´s and Erik´s relationship, like why ruin something that was new and full of potential, why?

[Lucyinthesky]

Does Sinister needs Orchis to allow him to create Chimeras, though?

Not really but I thought this motivation for him was better than him behaving crazily just because, I miss the Sinister that was clever and scary precisely because he´s clever and hard to defeat.

IÂ’m honestly too tired to care. I just hope Jean and Scott are somewhat spared of the bad stuff while every book sales around them collapses so we move past this Krakoa era already.

Lest hope they see better writting in the future.

More than Cerebro amplifying his powers, he has a copy of the minds of *every* single damn mutant - including stronger telepaths than him - readily available for him to alter in the event of a death which currently has no meaning whatsoever.
Pre-Krakoa-pre-Moira-X Charles would be horrified with the power he was wielding and the possible consequences.

Yes and it´s precisely why I can see him going all: ¡Charles smashes!

Oh, my bad. IÂ’ll just use cool (instead of cold) water next time you ask! :P

Yes please :P

IÂ’ll wear my highest heels and have this contraption ready just in case:

Yees! lest just see those two going all OUT and smash everything on Orchis, it´s been ages and we have been patient marvel, not give us this team work, in honor to TAS X-men being back.

Well, if we see a polar bear in Antarctica, I think we’ll have another reason to hate those faulty Krakoan gates. :P

Lol sorry, I mixed the two but now that you says this, it would be such a cute beggining for a story, small and cute polar bear gets lost because of a krakoan gate

The non-racist/speciesist reason is simple: they want to protect the resurrections protocols. If that makes any sense it’s yet another discussion, though.

I do think this is their main reason but yes, there are some alternatives.

[Lucyinthesky]

Unless there was something fishy with the resurrections protocols or Krakoa itself or Onslaught or whatever, but they seem to have dropped all those hints concerning that so…

Yes it seems Way of X was it about the ressurrection protocols, unless there´s another title that address it on the next phase.

Yeah! I remember you were happy when I shared Eye of the Tiger as part of a joke about getting Mag’s core in shape!

Yes, eye of the tiger is great to get everybody in shape in no time Rocky is just that inspiring and I guess my boy at least is in shape again :P

Keep her. All yours. I’d rather have Rosie any day.

I looove Rosie too but Danger has some cute moments, like when she used a green cape that made her look like Dr Doom and she´s an interesting character in her own right. I also liked her brief interactions with the X-men, Scott and Magneto.

It’s called “Project Polyphemus”.

”Polyphemus is the one-eyed giant son of Poseidon and Thoosa in Greek mythology, one of the Cyclopes described in Homer's Odyssey. His name means "abounding in songs and legends".”

Like I said, the moment they first showed us the image of Captain Krakoa, my mind screamed “Scott Summers”. Maybe all of those hints are red herrings, of course. But I think we’ll have 2 Scotts running around until one of them dies. Maybe StefordScott pretends to be OrchisScott to gain some info… who knows?

But I’m expecting it to be a mess where everyone will look bad and be thrown under the bus. Most especially Jean.

Great greek mytholigy reference, I loved to read those myths as a child and are still some of my favorite stories.

I also thought Scott was Captain Krakoa and given he will appear next issue, it could be him changing into that identity to try to stop people from beliving Urich story but I also could see one of the villains of X-men like Dr Stasis or High Evolutionary, doing a clone of Scott and pass him off as Captain Krakoa. I guess we will see next issue, finally.

Oh god… and to think I might come to prefer having this buffoon around instead of the alternative… Why am I still reading this sh**?

You just love Scott, it´s totally understable.

[QUOTE]Especially when it happens so often!

Those sensitive souls, afraid of us. Us, Lucy! :P

Yes, indeed :P

And that was on the *same week* when there was another thread about Jean not having been slut-shamed enough for not having done something she hasn’t done due to feelings she didn’t have! And another about her being a racist!
Like I said to a friend, it must have been because of Halloween. She’s redhead. Clearly a witch, right? Burn the witch!
Speaking about eye rolling…

I think they just wanted to troll Jean and it came out of nowhere. I also fear the last story with her and Lorna could point people to attack her but honestly is was such a diservice to both Lorna and Jean that I am hoping people to get over it quickly, like I was expecting to see Lorna give her reasons to be on X-men and we are given this. Sigh, such a waste.

That’s an accurate description of him, yes. He’s a different kind of nerd than me, but he’s willing to engage and participate in my craziness indeed. And vice-versa.

That´s awesome, to share our crazinees with people is always more fun.

Oh, more hugs?

Since you like polar bears:

Aww they are beatiful, thank you so much. hugs Grinning Soul