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Thread: Excalibur #17

  1. #61
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    I think the idea is that Betsy feels it is easier to apologize to a different Kwannon than the "real" one. Like practice or something. It's like saying "I love you" to a stranger, who cares.

  2. #62
    Hi, Sage. nandes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rnap22 View Post
    I feel like this is my fault. Last Excalibur issue I asked what happened to all the things that were dropped for months. Unfortunately, they all returned in this issue and I wish they didn’t. I really think this book needs to be refocused on what it’s supposed to be. Rearrange the cast. Shift to more Otherworld stories. What’s happening in the other kingdoms after X of Swords? This Coven Akkaba is not interesting at all. Get some magical characters in here. Get some other British heroes in the book for guest staring roles.

    S.W.O.R.D. has done more to set up what it’s doing and why those characters are there in two issues (and the second is a tie in). Hellions is established as the team that needs an outlet for their deranged behavior and Krakoa needs a team that has no official connection to Krakoan government. X-force is the CIA. X-men has been world building slowly, but hope that it will turn into the Official X-men team book. Marauders needs some guidance in terms of theme again. X-factor is there for investigating deaths. Excalibur besides mutant magic doesn’t have a set theme besides Betsy as CB.
    You just listed two of its themes, though...? The Captain Britain role in its publication history has dealt with the Otherworld and being the protector of all realities, Excalibur as a comic has always involved the weird, kooky side of the intersection between mutantkind and the multiverse, and the new book introduced the concept of mutant magic - these have been the main facets of the book since the first issue

  3. #63
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    This was awful. Why is the diallouge for anyone not Betsy so wretched? Jubilee doesn't know what a litter box is? Rogue sounds like an inbred Trumper? And they can't beat some z-list witch? Just no.

  4. #64
    Mighty Member Krakoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    If they were going to have the book really delve into this idea of mutant magic, then yeah, Pixie, Forge, Ilyanna, maybe even Wiz Kid (after his work on the 'spellchecker' in Inferno, he could have been bit by the magic bug) or Jimaine Szardos (I'd be particularly interested in seeing her *without* being tied to Kurt) or Storm.
    I feel like using traditional magic-user characters misses the whole point that Tini is trying to make about mutant magic.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    You just listed two of its themes, though...? The Captain Britain role in its publication history has dealt with the Otherworld and being the protector of all realities, Excalibur as a comic has always involved the weird, kooky side of the intersection between mutantkind and the multiverse, and the new book introduced the concept of mutant magic - these have been the main facets of the book since the first issue
    Yeah and she’s doing a crap job out of those two themes. This book has introduced the whole mutant magic and really nothing has been expanded or really done with besides Apocalypse opening a gateway under the Citadel and they called to the other Betsy’s. In issue one of S.W.O.R.D. we had a full understanding of why those characters were there and what their roles were in both the station and in terms of mutant technology and the circuits. This book is just a random group thrown in together. Why are these characters in the book and what have they really done. Apocalypse and Rictor are the real two that had any growth. Betsy was basically forced to be CB and she only wanted to keep it because Brian wanted her to take the sword and she was tired of letting other make her choices. Then she got jobbed in her first challenge during an event that was coming out of THIS BOOK.

    I’m fine with things being weird. I enjoyed the original run of Excalibur and the Alt Realities, but this isn’t entertaining. We have no real magic users on this team. If you’re going to do a book about mutant magic, then you should have characters who are somewhat familiar with magic.

    I’m sorry but after all these issues there’s been little growth. Not much seems to happen in the books. There are jumps that are disjointed. There’s stuff we are supposed to just “piece together” ourselves. There are good ideas, but the execution is so poor. I wish I could enjoy this as much as others.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    I think the idea is that Betsy feels it is easier to apologize to a different Kwannon than the "real" one. Like practice or something. It's like saying "I love you" to a stranger, who cares.
    Yes. Like practice!

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    Now that I'm thinking about it it is kind of annoyiong me now that Kwannon (although I do actually like the character):

    If there was no swap in this reality why is she using the butterfly effect?
    Why did she date Warren?
    Why does she have TP/TK?
    Why didn't she show up in that awesome pink/purple body suit?

    I get that Betsy had her body for however many years.

    But start showing us the empath side of Kwannon (I'm gonna tweet this to Zeb Wells). The only difference she really has is that she has a daughter and that's starting to bug me.

    But also I will acknowledge that two people can have similar personalities BUT lets start making the difference between Betsy and Kwannon like a blantant statement.
    How many Wolverines, Hulks, Greys, are there? Plenty of people have similar powers. Look at the Valkyries!

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    How many Wolverines, Hulks, Greys, are there? Plenty of people have similar powers. Look at the Valkyries!
    They're not just similar, they're exactly the same. And the Wolverines, Hulks and Greys are actually related to each other which justifies similar powers, while Betsy and Kwannon had no relation to each other pre-bodyswap.

  9. #69
    Incredible Member thjan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    They're not just similar, they're exactly the same. And the Wolverines, Hulks and Greys are actually related to each other which justifies similar powers, while Betsy and Kwannon had no relation to each other pre-bodyswap.
    Yep it makes no sense. I think it is just yet another instance of Howard being unfamiliar with the histories and powers of the characters.

  10. #70
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    Another disjointed mess. With Betsy being my all time fave I was so looking forward to this book and looking forward to the Howard / To " dream team " but the execution of the story telling is awful most of the time and the art is really beginning to annoy me, what a let down and what a shame.

  11. #71
    Mighty Member Psyknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I dont beleive Betsy apologizing has anything to do with her anything she;s done to Kwannon but rather the trauma and loss Kwannon had to endure. When one hears that someone's mother died, its a natural reaction to say you're sorry for that even though you didnt kill the mother. I see it along those lines and considering how intimately Betsy is tied to that loss and trauma, it makes more sense why she would want to say sorry. I get it. We dont know the depths of it yet but there may be a level of guilt that she may feel, especially since Kwannon died while being in her body (it would seem the British one was more susceptible to the Legacy Virus). None of that is Betsy's fault but again its a natural human reaction that anyone with an ounce of compassion would feel. Survivor's guilt is also a thing
    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    I think the idea is that Betsy feels it is easier to apologize to a different Kwannon than the "real" one. Like practice or something. It's like saying "I love you" to a stranger, who cares.
    These are very valid points so I’m not bothered by Betts apologizing to Kwannon. This issue was just so so. The interaction with that universes’s Kwannon was alright and it was nice to see Betsy fight. It’s still pretty terrible that it took this long to get even a semi decent development for Betsy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Can anyone really explain why Rogue and Gambit are still here? They were kinda forced along at the start bc Apocalypse and Rogue being in a coma but that was resolved early on. Exactly why have they remained on this team especially since Gambit has never wanted to be?
    Rogue and Gambit are here solely to trick more people into getting this book. It’s fine to use a character’s popularity to boost a book’s sales, but actually use them instead of just having them in the background. When this book was announced, I was excited to see them and Jubilee in the same book as Betts. Ideally, the writer for this book should be changed for someone who can write believable reasons for these characters to stay and compelling interactions with each other and Betts. That’s probably asking too much though.
    Last edited by Psyknight; 01-29-2021 at 11:06 AM.

  12. #72
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    How many Wolverines, Hulks, Greys, are there? Plenty of people have similar powers. Look at the Valkyries!
    yeah but you act like people dont also complain about the multiple Wolverines, Jean derivatives and Hulks (when Marvel was multiplying them). I have no issue with Betsy and Kwannon co-existing but they really need to do a better job at differentiating them. Unfortunately Marvel's tactic was to give Kwannon most of what made Betsy, Betsy and instead turn Betsy into essentially a new character
    Last edited by Havok83; 01-29-2021 at 11:34 AM.

  13. #73
    BANNED Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    yeah but you act like people dont also complain about the multiple Wolverines, Jean derivatives and Hulks (when Marvel was multiplying them). I have no issue with Betsy and Kwannon co-existing but they really need to do a better job at differentiating them. Unfortunately Marvel's tactice was to give Kwannon most of what made Betsy, Betsy and instead turn Betsy into essentially a new character
    They made Kwannon look a lot like Betsy on A demon days cover.

    To art mae them look a like too much for my taste

  14. #74
    Incredible Member MetalPsyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    They made Kwannon look a lot like Betsy on A demon days cover.

    To art mae them look a like too much for my taste
    On the contrary, for me they made the girl in Demon days as in British Betsy in a her ninja/Psylocke gear. The character is inspired by Psylocke after all.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalPsyc View Post
    On the contrary, for me they made the girl in Demon days as in British Betsy in a her ninja/Psylocke gear. The character is inspired by Psylocke after all.
    I guess this is what I meant

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