Excalibur #17

[Kingdom X]

Enjoyable issue. Favorite part was seeing the alternate world and just how close yet different the two worlds were. I was glad to see Betsy had returned by the end of the issue as I am looking forward to moving the team into new stories and leaving the remnants of Sword of X behind as it doesn't really tie with this book. Though now after reading the boards I fear that though we got Betsy back it might not be OUR Betsy that was returned. Guess time will tell.

I don't mind the coven Akkaba all that much but mainly that is because I just imagine them as a mutant hate group like the Reavers and ignore the magic component.

The whole magic concept has never been properly explained in the beginning issues and so it still struggles as a whole now. It is then compounded by the loss of Apocalypse who was the main magic wielder. If they insist on continuing the mutant magic storyline than they need to recruit someone to the team that is familiar with mutant magic, perhaps someone from Arakoa. Once they have that, then they can begin building the team and training that team in the use of mutant magic. If the team that they have is in fact the correct one then please start creating stories that showcase that.

If Way of X didn’t just bag Pixie she would have been a perfect addition.

[Sutekh]

If Way of X didn’t just bag Pixie she would have been a perfect addition.

If they were going to have the book really delve into this idea of mutant magic, then yeah, Pixie, Forge, Ilyanna, maybe even Wiz Kid (after his work on the 'spellchecker' in Inferno, he could have been bit by the magic bug) or Jimaine Szardos (I'd be particularly interested in seeing her *without* being tied to Kurt) or Storm.

[Alphaxman]

This issue was simply OK. I'm quickly losing interest with it and it doesn't seem like the quality will improve. The "mystery" over Betsy's disappearance was resolved too quickly. I didn't see the need for Betsy to apologize to an alternate version of Kwannon when the real Kwannon was on the same island nation as her for x-amount of time. Rogue and Gambit does not fit this book and should have been replaced with Kurt and Meggan. But since Kurt is going to have his own title, that point is irrelevant -- just like this title.

And the art, to me, would be more fitting for something like Power Pack, the Champions or Ms. Marvel. Everyone looks too young.

I wish Marvel would give the title to Alan Davis if he's not simi-retired.

[Celestialbodies]

Empath kept his

And so did Mastermind, Mesmero, Lady Mastermind...it's only lazy writers who take character with any form of psionic power and make them telepaths.

I skipped over much of this issue, Tini has a habit of drowning her reading in walls of text without accomplishing much from it, imo. I thought the Bets/Kwannon scenes were the best of the book, but that's not saying much given how little Tini utilizes the rest of her cast. I picked this up for the first time since X of Swords and predictability there's something still off about the writing, so much happens in the speech bubbles for not much to actually occur in the narrative.

[Rnap22]

I feel like this is my fault. Last Excalibur issue I asked what happened to all the things that were dropped for months. Unfortunately, they all returned in this issue and I wish they didn’t. I really think this book needs to be refocused on what it’s supposed to be. Rearrange the cast. Shift to more Otherworld stories. What’s happening in the other kingdoms after X of Swords? This Coven Akkaba is not interesting at all. Get some magical characters in here. Get some other British heroes in the book for guest staring roles.

S.W.O.R.D. has done more to set up what it’s doing and why those characters are there in two issues (and the second is a tie in). Hellions is established as the team that needs an outlet for their deranged behavior and Krakoa needs a team that has no official connection to Krakoan government. X-force is the CIA. X-men has been world building slowly, but hope that it will turn into the Official X-men team book. Marauders needs some guidance in terms of theme again. X-factor is there for investigating deaths. Excalibur besides mutant magic doesn’t have a set theme besides Betsy as CB.

[CGAR]

Now that I'm thinking about it it is kind of annoyiong me now that Kwannon (although I do actually like the character):

If there was no swap in this reality why is she using the butterfly effect?
Why did she date Warren?
Why does she have TP/TK?
Why didn't she show up in that awesome pink/purple body suit?

I get that Betsy had her body for however many years.

But start showing us the empath side of Kwannon (I'm gonna tweet this to Zeb Wells). The only difference she really has is that she has a daughter and that's starting to bug me.

But also I will acknowledge that two people can have similar personalities BUT lets start making the difference between Betsy and Kwannon like a blantant statement.

[Dante Milton]

Why didn't she show up in that awesome pink/purple body suit?

Kwannon's original costume was designed specifically to evoke Betsy's old fashion sense before the swap because when she was first introduced she was claiming to be the original Betsy. It's not the kind of thing I think she would choose to wear for herself.

At this point I think it's also safe to assume that her powerset has been retconned to be TP/TK.

[CGAR]

I still love that body suit.

[Krakoa]

The whole Betsy apologizing to alt Kwannon thing was so off to me. I'm personally in the camp that Betsy (the character, not the writers who introduced the race swap) has nothing to apologize for, so the whole thing felt like misplaced white guilt that wasn't actually helping the wronged party.

I don't think the book is necessarily saying she does have something to apologize for. I think it's totally reasonable that she feels like she needs to apologize even if she doesn't actually need to, and personally that feels to me like what Tini is building towards. Betsy feels guilty about something that she was really more of a victim in than a participant.

[Rang10]

Now that I'm thinking about it it is kind of annoyiong me now that Kwannon (although I do actually like the character):

If there was no swap in this reality why is she using the butterfly effect?
Why did she date Warren?
Why does she have TP/TK?
Why didn't she show up in that awesome pink/purple body suit?

I get that Betsy had her body for however many years.

But start showing us the empath side of Kwannon (I'm gonna tweet this to Zeb Wells). The only difference she really has is that she has a daughter and that's starting to bug me.

But also I will acknowledge that two people can have similar personalities BUT lets start making the difference between Betsy and Kwannon like a blantant statement.

I read it like a fanfic, these 3 characters having a entanglement.

i'm not sure the writer really know how different Kwannon and betsy were before the swap/merger. Kwannon using the purple speech box seemed wrong to me.

[Havok83]

The whole Betsy apologizing to alt Kwannon thing was so off to me. I'm personally in the camp that Betsy (the character, not the writers who introduced the race swap) has nothing to apologize for, so the whole thing felt like misplaced white guilt that wasn't actually helping the wronged party.

I dont beleive Betsy apologizing has anything to do with her anything she;s done to Kwannon but rather the trauma and loss Kwannon had to endure. When one hears that someone's mother died, its a natural reaction to say you're sorry for that even though you didnt kill the mother. I see it along those lines and considering how intimately Betsy is tied to that loss and trauma, it makes more sense why she would want to say sorry. I get it. We dont know the depths of it yet but there may be a level of guilt that she may feel, especially since Kwannon died while being in her body (it would seem the British one was more susceptible to the Legacy Virus). None of that is Betsy's fault but again its a natural human reaction that anyone with an ounce of compassion would feel. Survivor's guilt is also a thing

[Glio]

It's surprising that the comic has improved so much after X of Swords. I'm even intrigued where it is going.

[Uncanny X-Man]

I dont beleive Betsy apologizing has anything to do with her anything she;s done to Kwannon but rather the trauma and loss Kwannon had to endure. When one hears that someone's mother died, its a natural reaction to say you're sorry for that even though you didnt kill the mother. I see it along those lines and considering how intimately Betsy is tied to that loss and trauma, it makes more sense why she would want to say sorry. I get it. We dont know the depths of it yet but there may be a level of guilt that she may feel, especially since Kwannon died while being in her body (it would seem the British one was more susceptible to the Legacy Virus). None of that is Betsy's fault but again its a natural human reaction that anyone with an ounce of compassion would feel. Survivor's guilt is also a thing

I agree with all this. Even if it wasn't her fault or choice, I don't think it feels forced for Betsy to want to apologize to Kwannon for inhabiting her body for years. I think it's pretty natural especially considering Kwannon got the short stick and got stuck in a body that was then infected with the Legacy Virus and died.

I do question however starting that conversation with an alternate universe version of Kwannon. I guess we'll see what happens next issue but if Tini's idea for Betsy was "I stumbled upon another version of Kwannon and it reminded me I should have a talk with my own Earth's version of her"... I think it's pretty lame? Like isn't Betsy seeing Kwannon every time she's in Krakoa? Or isn't something like that constantly on her mind even without taking a trip to an alternate Earth?

Again, we'll have to see how the story develops but if this was all there was to the "Queen Elizabeth" plot, it's rather flimsy and non-sensical.

[Adam]

Haha.. no that’s why I asked though. I didn’t know if you can just take over someone’s land if they don’t show up there. Coven Akkaba has no governmental right being there to take it over.
The Braddocks are British citizens.

They are taking some liberties because the rules changed not too long ago, but briefly, you can claim land by Adverse Possession if you remain in exclusive occupation of that land for a certain about of time. It’s commonly referred to as squatters rights. The rule change makes this difficult to achieve these days, though.

And everyone falls asleep 😴 sorry!

[Adam]

I should probably also mention the book.

I really enjoy it. I think that these are difficult stories to tell and I appreciate the work. You have to take parts with a pinch of salt, and accept you’re unlikely to get the common resolution, but it’s not boring.