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  1. #31
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    I've already seen people say Detroit came out on top, and, in theory, they did....provided they use all those draft picks wisely, however, given the Lions' checkered past, that's not a certainty. Meanwhile, yeah, it's all in for the Rams as they're in danger of their window slamming shut and wasting the careers of Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey, and they don't have much time to make it work with Stafford, because once that window closes, L.A. instantly becomes a perennial bottom feeder with no future whatsoever for at least the next decade, if not longer.
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  2. #32
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    My take and somethings about this.


    - Detroit now has 5 1st rd draft picks. But the Lions are an organization that has more misses than hits when it comes to the NFL Draft. They will go drafts and select players and after an injury soon give up on the players involved comically. (In reading they did this with a few like Ernie Sims etc)


    - Jared Goff isn't the answer for Detroit . He is very average. He doesn't have big arm strength. There are games where he can't make a number of throws and its gonna become evident when Detroit will Stafford's cannon arm. His contract is a nightmare here. Per Overthecap , the Lions are right against the cap. Taking on a massive contract like Goff's is insane.


    - The LA Rams itself are idiots. I mean complete idiots at things. Had they tried to restructure the Goff deal it may have happened. Instead the team has done a "win now" mentality that has sunk this team for a number of seasons. 16. They have traded picks away for years for players in a "WIN NOW" mentality and handed out big contracts to watch it not work.


    - One friend said to me its the LA crowd. That this was done to appease the LA fanbase because they are demanding a winner. Its just within a couple seasons the team will go into crapper and won't win the Super Bowl with Stafford really.


    -Speaking of Stafford its more insane to think the team is hoping he can somehow be the long term future ahead. That they have to hope he plays at least 5-6 more seasons to make this trade even seem logical. (Its not , the Rams aren't gonna win a Super Bowl with Stafford)
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  3. #33
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    This trade and the draft picks sent for an older QB past 30 echoes a trade done 40+ years ago.


    The John Hadl disaster set the Green Bay Packers back for years due to losing the draft picks sent for a 34 year old QB in a "WIN NOW" mentality as this shows. The coach over reacted and pretty much ruined the team.

    https://thepowersweep.com/blog/the-john-hadl-disaster
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  4. #34
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    The LA trade is a slight upgrade for them at best as far as I am concerned. As a Rams fan I'm happy because they really needed a change at QB. Not that Goff has been horrible, but he will never live down that Super Bowl loss and he really needed a change of scenery. You could just tell that it took a big toll on him and he was never playing with the same confidence he had that year. Sure you can argue that the Rams made their own bed here, and this is just karma and continued necessary fall out for their big all-in a few years back but hey that all-in is the one that got them to the Super Bowl. I'm therefore not complaining. And they have continued to be relevant since then, in spite of it all. Most teams never get the opportunities the Rams have been getting no matter what they try.

    So it will be good to get new blood in there for the Rams at QB. Stafford is not super exciting but I think he will also benefit from a new start. LA is a pretty nice place to play compared to Detroit. The fans here will love him, once he starts showing off that arm and versatility. Its not like a lot of cities where they begin to boo you and eat you alive if you screw up. LA fans are chill. To a point, anyhow. But you can be certain Stafford had more teams interested in him than any of the teams were in Goff. That alone makes it a win for LA.

    Each team did ok even considering the hit to their cap of around $20 million. For the Rams, that timing is ok because they have mostly rebuilt the team already and have the tools to still get to the playoffs as proven this past season. For Detroit, well they've got a handful of draft picks now and will be paying a bunch of rookie salaries. From the Lions standpoint I'm pretty sure they considered Goff to be fairly safe and he pretty much will be for them I suspect. Overall I expect both teams to do better unless Dan Campbell ends up being an Adam Gase (seems impossible for there to be two of them out there).

    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    - The LA Rams itself are idiots. I mean complete idiots at things. Had they tried to restructure the Goff deal it may have happened. Instead the team has done a "win now" mentality that has sunk this team for a number of seasons. 16. They have traded picks away for years for players in a "WIN NOW" mentality and handed out big contracts to watch it not work.
    It honestly amazes me that you can have this attitude. They made it to the Super Bowl, with an average joe like Goff. Winning record every year since they came to LA. One bad year out of five. Most teams would love to be the kind of idiot the Rams have been for the past few years. If "not work" means not winning the Super Bowl, sure. But all you can really do with any team is create opportunities to win, you know that. The rest is a combination of talent and luck.
    Last edited by Scott Taylor; 02-02-2021 at 01:14 PM.
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  5. #35
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post

    It honestly amazes me that you can have this attitude. They made it to the Super Bowl, with an average joe like Goff. Winning record every year since they came to LA. One bad year out of five. Most teams would love to be the kind of idiot the Rams have been for the past few years. If "not work" means not winning the Super Bowl, sure. But all you can really do with any team is create opportunities to win, you know that. The rest is a combination of talent and luck.
    I get both sides to this. The short term is Rams are now on the clock to win and win big. They made it with Goff so even a minor upgrade to the skill position here increases their chances. They have little turnover when compared to other teams and their division appears to be weakening.

    On the other hand in the long run, if they don't win and win big now ... they have no future for 3 reasons:

    1. Stafford becomes tainted goods and they cant move him to recoup capitol lost.
    2. They lost A LOT of draft capitol to make this happen. It will take them 3-5 years to recover from that. Maybe more.
    3. They have no skill players to trade later due to age to even recover a fraction of the capitol lost here.

    It's all in for LA!
    Last edited by BeastieRunner; 02-02-2021 at 02:12 PM.
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  6. #36
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    The LA trade is a slight upgrade for them at best as far as I am concerned. As a Rams fan I'm happy because they really needed a change at QB. Not that Goff has been horrible, but he will never live down that Super Bowl loss and he really needed a change of scenery. You could just tell that it took a big toll on him and he was never playing with the same confidence he had that year. Sure you can argue that the Rams made their own bed here, and this is just karma and continued necessary fall out for their big all-in a few years back but hey that all-in is the one that got them to the Super Bowl. I'm therefore not complaining. And they have continued to be relevant since then, in spite of it all. Most teams never get the opportunities the Rams have been getting no matter what they try.

    So it will be good to get new blood in there for the Rams at QB. Stafford is not super exciting but I think he will also benefit from a new start. LA is a pretty nice place to play compared to Detroit. The fans here will love him, once he starts showing off that arm and versatility. Its not like a lot of cities where they begin to boo you and eat you alive if you screw up. LA fans are chill. To a point, anyhow. But you can be certain Stafford had more teams interested in him than any of the teams were in Goff. That alone makes it a win for LA.

    Each team did ok even considering the hit to their cap of around $20 million. For the Rams, that timing is ok because they have mostly rebuilt the team already and have the tools to still get to the playoffs as proven this past season. For Detroit, well they've got a handful of draft picks now and will be paying a bunch of rookie salaries. From the Lions standpoint I'm pretty sure they considered Goff to be fairly safe and he pretty much will be for them I suspect. Overall I expect both teams to do better unless Dan Campbell ends up being an Adam Gase (seems impossible for there to be two of them out there).



    It honestly amazes me that you can have this attitude. They made it to the Super Bowl, with an average joe like Goff. Winning record every year since they came to LA. One bad year out of five. Most teams would love to be the kind of idiot the Rams have been for the past few years. If "not work" means not winning the Super Bowl, sure. But all you can really do with any team is create opportunities to win, you know that. The rest is a combination of talent and luck.
    The LA Rams have been fools. They have done this the last few seasons...


    - Blew their salary cap all to hell with huge contracts for Jared Goff , Todd Gurley and Brandin Cooks. These deals hurt the team badly as they committed $150+ million in salaries for those 3. They then had to start unloading them slowly due to the salary cap situation. Cooks and Gurley went as the 2 weren't worth the contract price due to injuries later on. In Gurley's case people now look at the massive Rams contract as a warning sign for teams to not over pay RB's.


    - Their drafting has been more miss and no draft picks. Its been proven that the draft is where teams are more built than free agency or trades at times. In fact the LA Rams have a comical history on trades. And how the trades made now ...haven't had any long term impact.


    --- 2017 : No 1st rd pick as it was traded for Goff in the 2016 NFL Draft.
    --- 2018 : The LA Rams traded this selection to New England for Brandin Cooks ...who was gone within a season or 2.
    --- 2019 : Traded this draft pick outta 1st rd for another 2nd rd pick.
    --- 2020 : Traded this for Jalen Ramsey .
    --- 2021: Traded for Jalen Ramsey
    --- 2022 : Traded for Matthew Stafford
    --- 2023 : Traded for Matthew Stafford

    This is insane. Not having 1st rd draft picks for 6 seasons is a big blow on adding talent which the Rams need. Its not smart really to keep sending draft picks away for a "win now" mentality and it catches up quick on teams. Washington in 1970's did this under Allen who wanted to win now and would send draft picks away in trades. (he comically made so many trades he once traded a draft pick...twice) . But this idea to trade for proven veterans eventually caught up to Allen's "OVER THE HILL GANG" as the team had no young depth and even with winning seasons...just were not good enough to win fully to make the playoffs.

    The Rams had a talented core of offensive and defensive players after their Super Bowl appearance. They had Aaron Donald , some solid LB's and Marcus Peters. They could have added a couple young draft picks to what was needed and likely been contending and phased older players out. In fact here is the players the LA Rams could have had from 2017 to 2020 with those draft picks.


    - Corey Davis in 2017 : Davis really has become a solid #2 WR. He also could have stopped a need for Brandin Cooks and wasting a draft pick and time on getting him.
    - Isiah Wynn (OT) : Can't stay healthy ...so this was a bust here. But the LA Rams could have had Nick Chubb , Darius Leonard or Brandon Smith for offensive line.
    - Kaleb McGary (OT) : Could have filled a need on offensive line as well at tackle.

    That is from 2017-2019. 2020 is too soon for how players will make an impact. But we will see which ones rise up after that pick was traded.


    Now the trade itself for Matthew Stafford who does have a cannon for an arm sure. But he's 33. He's entering the NFL mid life of his career. He's not in his 20's to make this type of deal impactful. In fact Stafford has so much pressure on himself now as do the LA Rams as they have to win Super Bowls ASAP. They have a window and with no 1st rd picks to step in the next couple seasons they need to win.

    Stafford himself has been solid in Detroit for years. But his record is pretty bad as a starting QB with 74 wins and 93 losses in that span. His record against winning teams is very bad.

    The Rams have pretty much hurt their franchise for years and will now they will continue it. Stafford isn't gonna get them to the promise land given the rest of the team and depth there. That division is a very hard one.
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  7. #37
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Geez. Again, Super, you can post all the words you want but Rams have gotten plenty back in exchange for their expenditures. Its just silly to act like they are the Jets or something, calling them idiots or fools. Fools all the way to winning seasons and one Super Bowl visit. You've been proclaiming their doom for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    I get both sides to this. The short term is Rams are now on the clock to win and win big. They made it with Goff so even a minor upgrade to the skill position here increases their chances. They have little turnover when compared to other teams and their division appears to be weakening.

    On the other hand in the long run, if they don't win and win big now ... they have no future for 3 reasons:

    1. Stafford becomes tainted goods and they cant move him to recoup capitol lost.
    2. They lost A LOT of draft capitol to make this happen. It will take them 3-5 years to recover from that. Maybe more.
    3. They have no skill players to trade later due to age to even recover a fraction of the capitol lost here.

    It's all in for LA!
    They have a playoff team right now, three years after the last time they were allegedly doomed. I think the Rams will be fine as long as McVay is around and the ownership is able to go out and make deals. There is no "clock", its not like they are going to explode if they don't make the Super Bowl in a year.
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  8. #38
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    As an outside observer... I find the Rams’ strategy fun to watch, since I do see it as a giant gamble with a radically different view of the process fo building a great team.

    The question basically becomes whether or not the Rams have correctly invested their resources into the current team or not, and how feasible it is to “spend now, pay later” when constructing a 50+ man roster.
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  9. #39
    Fighting Injustice on CBR SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Geez. Again, Super, you can post all the words you want but Rams have gotten plenty back in exchange for their expenditures. Its just silly to act like they are the Jets or something, calling them idiots or fools. Fools all the way to winning seasons and one Super Bowl visit. You've been proclaiming their doom for years.
    They gave up draft picks for Goff , no longer have him. Gave up draft picks for Cooks and no longer have him and they gave up draft picks for Ramsey and Stafford. The result of the draft picks on the "ALL IN" for Ramsey 2 seasons ago : 19-13 record in that span. Made playoffs once thus far and lost divisional round. Stafford we have no idea on how they will do but well...they haven't been the top team in that division since 2018. They are chasing the Seahawks and have the 49ers and Cardinals competing hard.


    They have a playoff team right now, three years after the last time they were allegedly doomed. I think the Rams will be fine as long as McVay is around and the ownership is able to go out and make deals. There is no "clock", its not like they are going to explode if they don't make the Super Bowl in a year.
    I think everyone can tell you....the LA Rams are on a clock right now to win asap. They have little assets left to trade down the line as Donald will turn 30 next season. Ramsey is young and he too has a huge contract now to pay (they best hope they play up to it) . The window is gonna be the next couple seasons. The pressure is as they have to win now. Anything less than a Super Bowl is a failure for the LA Rams now.
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  10. #40
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    This brings up that favorite NFL conundrum: Would you accept ten years of last place finishes in return for a Super Bowl ring? It looks like the Rams basically said YES. With their window open right now, they're going for the gold while the opportunity presents itself. I have no problem with that strategy.
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  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    The LA Rams have been fools. They have done this the last few seasons...


    - Blew their salary cap all to hell with huge contracts for Jared Goff , Todd Gurley and Brandin Cooks. These deals hurt the team badly as they committed $150+ million in salaries for those 3. They then had to start unloading them slowly due to the salary cap situation. Cooks and Gurley went as the 2 weren't worth the contract price due to injuries later on. In Gurley's case people now look at the massive Rams contract as a warning sign for teams to not over pay RB's.


    - Their drafting has been more miss and no draft picks. Its been proven that the draft is where teams are more built than free agency or trades at times. In fact the LA Rams have a comical history on trades. And how the trades made now ...haven't had any long term impact.


    --- 2017 : No 1st rd pick as it was traded for Goff in the 2016 NFL Draft.
    --- 2018 : The LA Rams traded this selection to New England for Brandin Cooks ...who was gone within a season or 2.
    --- 2019 : Traded this draft pick outta 1st rd for another 2nd rd pick.
    --- 2020 : Traded this for Jalen Ramsey .
    --- 2021: Traded for Jalen Ramsey
    --- 2022 : Traded for Matthew Stafford
    --- 2023 : Traded for Matthew Stafford

    This is insane. Not having 1st rd draft picks for 6 seasons is a big blow on adding talent which the Rams need. Its not smart really to keep sending draft picks away for a "win now" mentality and it catches up quick on teams. Washington in 1970's did this under Allen who wanted to win now and would send draft picks away in trades. (he comically made so many trades he once traded a draft pick...twice) . But this idea to trade for proven veterans eventually caught up to Allen's "OVER THE HILL GANG" as the team had no young depth and even with winning seasons...just were not good enough to win fully to make the playoffs.

    The Rams had a talented core of offensive and defensive players after their Super Bowl appearance. They had Aaron Donald , some solid LB's and Marcus Peters. They could have added a couple young draft picks to what was needed and likely been contending and phased older players out. In fact here is the players the LA Rams could have had from 2017 to 2020 with those draft picks.


    - Corey Davis in 2017 : Davis really has become a solid #2 WR. He also could have stopped a need for Brandin Cooks and wasting a draft pick and time on getting him.
    - Isiah Wynn (OT) : Can't stay healthy ...so this was a bust here. But the LA Rams could have had Nick Chubb , Darius Leonard or Brandon Smith for offensive line.
    - Kaleb McGary (OT) : Could have filled a need on offensive line as well at tackle.

    That is from 2017-2019. 2020 is too soon for how players will make an impact. But we will see which ones rise up after that pick was traded.


    Now the trade itself for Matthew Stafford who does have a cannon for an arm sure. But he's 33. He's entering the NFL mid life of his career. He's not in his 20's to make this type of deal impactful. In fact Stafford has so much pressure on himself now as do the LA Rams as they have to win Super Bowls ASAP. They have a window and with no 1st rd picks to step in the next couple seasons they need to win.

    Stafford himself has been solid in Detroit for years. But his record is pretty bad as a starting QB with 74 wins and 93 losses in that span. His record against winning teams is very bad.

    The Rams have pretty much hurt their franchise for years and will now they will continue it. Stafford isn't gonna get them to the promise land given the rest of the team and depth there. That division is a very hard one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Geez. Again, Super, you can post all the words you want but Rams have gotten plenty back in exchange for their expenditures. Its just silly to act like they are the Jets or something, calling them idiots or fools. Fools all the way to winning seasons and one Super Bowl visit. You've been proclaiming their doom for years.



    They have a playoff team right now, three years after the last time they were allegedly doomed. I think the Rams will be fine as long as McVay is around and the ownership is able to go out and make deals. There is no "clock", its not like they are going to explode if they don't make the Super Bowl in a year.
    When you look at how they waste what 1st round picks they've had... it almost makes sense to just trade for a 2-3 year rental on a Pro-Bowler an keep in "win now" mode.

    The problem is, "win now" is just getting them back into the playoffs, and not winning the whole thing.
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  12. #42
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    This hour and change flew by to me. I'm not old enough to have seen Newsome play but I'm well aware of his time as a GM of the Ravens and putting that team together. Ozzie Newsome cuts through history like few others, more so than even I was aware of. Dude is super decorated but one of the rubs is always- why is he the only one. He didn't have a great answer for it, he's still on current NFL committee's that are 'pushing' guys through the pipeline and his eye is on the near future. Still, a league with 70% Black players and literally less than a handful of Black coaches continues to be an issue. The thing I see as the most tangible change is the QB position, it only took 100 years but the makeup of what an NFL Quarterback has traditionally looked like and the metrics of his performance is much different today and that's encouraging.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    This brings up that favorite NFL conundrum: Would you accept ten years of last place finishes in return for a Super Bowl ring? It looks like the Rams basically said YES. With their window open right now, they're going for the gold while the opportunity presents itself. I have no problem with that strategy.
    Thats the thing. There is no right answer to the conundrum. Its the same reason teams will tank, just to take that big shot eventually.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPERECWFAN1 View Post
    I think everyone can tell you....the LA Rams are on a clock right now to win asap. They have little assets left to trade down the line as Donald will turn 30 next season. Ramsey is young and he too has a huge contract now to pay (they best hope they play up to it) . The window is gonna be the next couple seasons. The pressure is as they have to win now. Anything less than a Super Bowl is a failure for the LA Rams now.
    Ok. I can agree with that. We'll just hope the Rams can pull some magic out of their hat before the window completely closes. There are several wild cards at work here as well, like how their draftees work out. I'm just glad the Rams chose this strategy instead of the tanking strategy, you know?
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    This brings up that favorite NFL conundrum: Would you accept ten years of last place finishes in return for a Super Bowl ring? It looks like the Rams basically said YES. With their window open right now, they're going for the gold while the opportunity presents itself. I have no problem with that strategy.
    As a Bills fan, I would have taken that trade...in the past. Thank God I'm not Buffalo's GM.

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