JSA Appreciation 2021

[John Venus]

By the way, what was the in-universe reason for why Hawkgirl/Shiera Hall never joined the primary JSA team?

[DrNewGod]

By the way, what was the in-universe reason for why Hawkgirl/Shiera Hall never joined the primary JSA team?

AFIK, there was none. Of course, neither Robin nor Sandy were invited while their senior partners were active either.

[MajorHoy]

By the way, what was the in-universe reason for why Hawkgirl/Shiera Hall never joined the primary JSA team?

Probably more an issue of "Why should she have joined?"
Back in the Golden Age, she was just a junior female Hawkman-type, and they already had the guy who was the title character of the feature: Hawkman. She really wouldn't have contributed anything that he wasn't already providing.

Remember, it wasn't until 1977 that Steve Englehart had Earth-1's Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman gain membership to the Justice League of America (issue #146). And that was about five years after Wonder Woman had the words "Special! Women's Lib Issue" at the top of the cover to issue #203.

Superhero comic books were not fully embracing female characters as equals back then.

[Digifiend]

Yeah, Marvel's Wasp was a sidekick and love interest to Ant-Man originally. Hawkgirl was the same thing to Hawkman, right?

[John Venus]

Thanks.

I read that that the E1 Hawkgirl couldn't join because the JLA at the time had a rule about no repeat powers so I was wondering if there was a similar reasoning given for why E2 Hawkgirl couldn't join the JSA.

[Johnrevenge]

Probably more an issue of "Why should she have joined?"
Back in the Golden Age, she was just a junior female Hawkman-type, and they already had the guy who was the title character of the feature: Hawkman. She really wouldn't have contributed anything that he wasn't already providing.

Remember, it wasn't until 1977 that Steve Englehart had Earth-1's Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman gain membership to the Justice League of America (issue #146). And that was about five years after Wonder Woman had the words "Special! Women's Lib Issue" at the top of the cover to issue #203.

Superhero comic books were not fully embracing female characters as equals back then.

Yeah in that era super heroines in comics were basically sidekicks or damsels in distress that have to be constantly rescued.

[CaptCleghorn]

Thanks.

I read that that the E1 Hawkgirl couldn't join because the JLA at the time had a rule about no repeat powers so I was wondering if there was a similar reasoning given for why E2 Hawkgirl couldn't join the JSA.

I know the LSH had a no duplicate powers rule in universe, but the JLA thing sounds like it might have been a writing rule. As for Hawkgirl and the JSA, like most here I don't recall any explanation ever being made in a story. It was expressed that the Crimson Avenger did not want Wing to be a member of the Seven Soldiers because he wanted a better life for Wing. In the JSA's defense against the blanket sexism of the time, they were the first team to have TWO women members. The Avengers, JLA and others all took at least a couple of years before getting a second woman on the roster.

[DrNewGod]

I know the LSH had a no duplicate powers rule in universe, but the JLA thing sounds like it might have been a writing rule. As for Hawkgirl and the JSA, like most here I don't recall any explanation ever being made in a story. It was expressed that the Crimson Avenger did not want Wing to be a member of the Seven Soldiers because he wanted a better life for Wing. In the JSA's defense against the blanket sexism of the time, they were the first team to have TWO women members. The Avengers, JLA and others all took at least a couple of years before getting a second woman on the roster.

Um, not so. The Avengers had both Wasp and Scarlet Witch on roster at the end of the second (Kooky Quartet) roster. It wasn't for long, and they wouldn't keep more than one female on the roster regularly until the late 1980s, but they got there early.

[MajorHoy]

. . . I read that that the E1 Hawkgirl couldn't join because the JLA at the time had a rule about no repeat powers so I was wondering if there was a similar reasoning given for why E2 Hawkgirl couldn't join the JSA.

I know the LSH had a no duplicate powers rule in universe, but the JLA thing sounds like it might have been a writing rule...

I don't know if there ever really was a "rule" of no duplicate powers for the Justice League; hell, they didn't even have a requirement that characters have bonafide "powers". I would guess it was probably just an explanation invented by Englehart to use within the story. At best, there may have been an un-written rule by writers/editors to try and and avoid loading the roster with too many characters that were essentially copies of each other.

[CaptCleghorn]

I know the LSH had a no duplicate powers rule in universe, but the JLA thing sounds like it might have been a writing rule. As for Hawkgirl and the JSA, like most here I don't recall any explanation ever being made in a story. It was expressed that the Crimson Avenger did not want Wing to be a member of the Seven Soldiers because he wanted a better life for Wing. In the JSA's defense against the blanket sexism of the time, they were the first team to have TWO women members. The Avengers, JLA and others all took at least a couple of years before getting a second woman on the roster.

Um, not so. The Avengers had both Wasp and Scarlet Witch on roster at the end of the second (Kooky Quartet) roster. It wasn't for long, and they wouldn't keep more than one female on the roster regularly until the late 1980s, but they got there early.

Ummmmm, yeah so. The Wasp returned in issue 26 which meant the Avengers took

at least a couple of years

to have more than one woman in the line-up. You see, Avengers came out at most monthly in those days and with 12 months in a year, they did not publish more than 12 issues a year. Hence, the 26th issue would have been

at least a couple of years

. By the way, the word "couple" means two.

[Digifiend]

Wasp left in issue 16 in May 1965, the same issue Scarlet Witch joined in. Janet returned in issue 26 as you say - in March 1966, which is only ten months later. It is, however, more than two years after the book started, which was in September 1963. So, if you meant from the team's launch, you're right.

[Nomads1]

And the Avengers did regularly have two or more active females on the team since the early 70's, starting when the Black Widow joined for a couple of issues and Wanda was already a member. After that, you had Wanda and Mantis (at first a hanger-on, but made an Avenger after the death of the Swordsman), then Wasp and Moondragon (probational member at first) for a couple of issues (though Jan was taken out of the action real soon), than Wanda a Moony when Wanda came back (with Hellcat as the hanger-on). Then it was Jan and Wanda right up to the 200's, with Ms. Marvel subbing for Wanda for a few issues (and Jocasta was also pretty much always around), then it was Jan and Tigra, then Jan and She-Hulk, and that brings us to Roger Stern's run, where we even got to see more female active members than male, when most of the regular cast was busy elsewhere. In the beggining, it was pretty much eye-candy, for Jan's powers were pretty weak, and Wanda's very unpredictable. However, it didn't take much time for them to really begin to carry their weight on the team, and then some.
For me, I've always found a big injustice that Shiera was not soon made a JSA member (seeing as she was a grown woman, and not a kid as most hero's partners back in those days). Shayera (Hawkwoman) is still one of my favorite members from the satelite era JLA.

Peace

[MajorHoy]

. . . For me, I've always found a big injustice that Shiera was not soon made a JSA member (seeing as she was a grown woman, and not a kid as most hero's partners back in those days). . .

An "injustice"?

Let's be realistic here: of those female Avengers you listed, how many of them had the exact same abilities / powers as a male counterpart who was already a member?

The JSA was first formed back in 1940, and it was basically a gimmick to spotlight characters who didn't yet have their own solo books. Then, starting in the early 1960s, they basically only appeared every summer to team-up with the Justice League of America in the Justice League's own book. They weren't the focus of their own series until a revival of All-Star Comics in late 1975, and by then they were focusing on adding some new, younger members to the line-up like Power Girl and Huntress.

It might have been nice to make Hawkgirl a member of the team earlier, but it wasn't a priority back in those days, especially since she was the female counterpart to a long-standing male member and she did not have any truly unique powers that would add to the group beyond what Hawkman provided. And there were already plenty of other past male members of the team who could have used more exposure as well.

[MajorHoy]

from DCU Legacies #1 (July 2010)

[DrNewGod]

from DCU Legacies #1 (July 2010)

Iconic though the cover homaged there is, it always faintly bugged me that, when it's presented in story as a photo, the Spectre didn't appear as something of a hazy blur. Nothing in canon to back that up, AFIK, just one of those assumptions you make about characters. In my case, that a ghost ought not to photograph so crisply.