Calvin Ellis aka President Superman Appreciation 2021

[PCN24454]

What do you prefer: A title of Justice Incarnate with Calvin Ellis as lead and exploring other earths or a book set on earth 23?

I'm gonna be honest, that sounds like a horrible idea.

Why not Val-Zod? He's horribly underutilized.

[Alpha]

What do you prefer: A title of Justice Incarnate with Calvin Ellis as lead and exploring other earths or a book set on earth 23?

I think Justice Incarnate is more likely and probably better long term. But I still want to visit earth 23 from time to time.

[Alpha]

I'm gonna be honest, that sounds like a horrible idea.

Why not Val-Zod? He's horribly underutilized.

Calvin Ellis is Superman if he became president. It's a totally different dynamic, because he went through the formal measures of changing the world. Even after he ends his presidency, there is still a fundamental specialness to him having experienced this, and he would have a very particular approach to things. Val Zod is fine as a character, but Calvin Ellis is much more unique. Plus Calvin has a better suit.

[Vordan]

What do you prefer: A title of Justice Incarnate with Calvin Ellis as lead and exploring other earths or a book set on earth 23?

I’m hoping for a Justice Incarnate book, since there’s a lot of Multiversity elements I’d love to see come into play, but I’d kill to see John Ridley write a mini or ongoing with Calvin.

I'm gonna be honest, that sounds like a horrible idea.

Why not Val-Zod? He's horribly underutilized.

Because this is the Calvin Ellis appreciation thread lol. If you’re here it’s assumed you want more Calvin stuff. But for me personally, Val is an incredibly boring character for a couple reason

1. He’s *just* black Superman. That’s it, that’s his thing. They said he was a pacifist but they abandoned that for the same reason as when Kelly tried to make Clark a pacifist: people read superheroes to see them punch stuff. Other than the pacifist stuff Val is no different from Clark personality or morals wise despite the fact that he should be. Which leads into

2. Despite being old enough to remember Krypton, losing his parents and his planet, and then being raised by the military as a WMD for Clark in case he went bad, Val is totally well adjusted and doesn’t show any signs of trauma. Flashpoint Clark was raised by the military and he was a mess. Kara struggles a lot with her grief over Krypton, and has a harder time of connecting with humanity. Val? Taylor might as well have had him raised by another farm couple from Kansas given how he acts. People complain about Jon but Val is even worse because at least Jon got to come home and reunite with his parents and friends, Val can’t even do that. In terms of personality he’s Clark but black and we see this literalized with

3. By the end of Earth 2 he’s wearing the freaking classic Clark disguise of glasses and a suit. I can’t remember if he was wearing a fedora or not, but I wouldn’t be surprised. This is stupid, Val doesn’t even have a human name and he’s far too old to have been adopted. Why does he even want to live amongst humans? He grew up in a cell underground raised by the military, he has zero connection to “regular” human life. Kara at least had a connection through her cousin to help her adjust, but Val’s got zero friends who aren’t also superheroes. He doesn’t have that ordinary upbringing that Kal does, logically Val should just be Superman 24/7, living in his Fortress. But there are expectations of what “Superman” is, and part of that is the civilian identity. So even though it doesn’t make sense, if Val is going to be “Superman” he gets the traditional Superman set up, secret identity included.

4. And finally to wrap all up: I dislike it when the Superfamily get warped into being like Clark. Kara going into journalism, Kon going to school in Smallville, I prefer Jon not wear a cape because it helps differentiate him from Clark. The foundation for Val just is a mess, a bunch of contradictions that don’t add up because Taylor is a lazy writer who will always brute force the solution he wants. He’s too similar to Clark with not enough to differentiate him and make him interesting to me in terms of how he operates and acts, his origin is just Kara and Flashpoint Clark’s but fails to connect together in a meaningful way beyond Taylor just wanting to handwave a reason why nobody knew he was around.

Now why do I prefer Calvin? Well

1. He’s Superman in all the essential ways (doomed planet, desperate scientists, last hope, kindly couple) but he’s also different enough to be worth exploring as his own spin. He clearly was not a journalist, nor does he have the same private interests as Clark does.

2. He’s President. He doesn’t just have the most physical power on Earth, he’s got the most political power too. It’s something Clark would never ever do, but Calvin does, and exploring why is interesting, similar to Red Son Superman. What made him go down this route and why? How’d he win election, what do his parents think, what do his peers think (Batman certainly can’t be comfortable with this)?

3. He operates just enough like Clark that you still recognize him as Superman, but also dramatically different enough to see he’s his own person as well. Clark (usually) has a non-interference policy with political affairs. Calvin goes and dismantles a third world nation’s nuclear program because he sees it as a threat (and because they’re lying about having it). Clark can’t serve the government without being written as a tool, but Calvin is the government. He retains his agency and independence and that helps side step the DKR problem without making him look weak.

4. He brings a bunch of cool Silver Age stuff, just “modernized” to fit his world. He’s got Superman Robot duplicates to take his place as President while he’s out being Superman, that’s fantastic! And finally like Alpha said, I like his costume more:


It’s amusing that while the New 52 suit for Clark didn’t work for me, I really like it for Calvin. Maybe the more stiff/formal look of the suit fits him better because of his civilian identity?

So that’s why I want to see more Calvin stuff and why I like him over Val. The political aspect he brings alone could be fascinating and offer storytelling opportunities you’d never get with Clark. There’s a Blue & Red story with Val coming, we’ll see how he gets used there, but I’m going to hope that Calvin gets a story in B&R too because he’s a perfect fit for that.

[Robanker]

I'm gonna be honest, that sounds like a horrible idea.

Why not Val-Zod? He's horribly underutilized.

You're one of those guys who goes to a movie called The Fast and the Furious and asks why they don't follow the speed limit, aren't you?

It's a Calvin Ellis appreciation thread. Get out of here with that nonsense. lol

I’m hoping for a Justice Incarnate book, since there’s a lot of Multiversity elements I’d love to see come into play, but I’d kill to see John Ridley write a mini or ongoing with Calvin.

Because this is the Calvin Ellis appreciation thread lol. If you’re here it’s assumed you want more Calvin stuff. But for me personally, Val is an incredibly boring character for a couple reason

1. He’s *just* black Superman. That’s it, that’s his thing. They said he was a pacifist but they abandoned that for the same reason as when Kelly tried to make Clark a pacifist: people read superheroes to see them punch stuff. Other than the pacifist stuff Val is no different from Clark personality or morals wise despite the fact that he should be. Which leads into

2. Despite being old enough to remember Krypton, losing his parents and his planet, and then being raised by the military as a WMD for Clark in case he went bad, Val is totally well adjusted and doesn’t show any signs of trauma. Flashpoint Clark was raised by the military and he was a mess. Kara struggles a lot with her grief over Krypton, and has a harder time of connecting with humanity. Val? Taylor might as well have had him raised by another farm couple from Kansas given how he acts. People complain about Jon but Val is even worse because at least Jon got to come home and reunite with his parents and friends, Val can’t even do that. In terms of personality he’s Clark but black and we see this literalized with

3. By the end of Earth 2 he’s wearing the freaking classic Clark disguise of glasses and a suit. I can’t remember if he was wearing a fedora or not, but I wouldn’t be surprised. This is stupid, Val doesn’t even have a human name and he’s far too old to have been adopted. Why does he even want to live amongst humans? He grew up in a cell underground raised by the military, he has zero connection to “regular” human life. Kara at least had a connection through her cousin to help her adjust, but Val’s got zero friends who aren’t also superheroes. He doesn’t have that ordinary upbringing that Kal does, logically Val should just be Superman 24/7, living in his Fortress. But there are expectations of what “Superman” is, and part of that is the civilian identity. So even though it doesn’t make sense, if Val is going to be “Superman” he gets the traditional Superman set up, secret identity included.

4. And finally to wrap all up: I dislike it when the Superfamily get warped into being like Clark. Kara going into journalism, Kon going to school in Smallville, I prefer Jon not wear a cape because it helps differentiate him from Clark. The foundation for Val just is a mess, a bunch of contradictions that don’t add up because Taylor is a lazy writer who will always brute force the solution he wants. He’s too similar to Clark with not enough to differentiate him and make him interesting to me in terms of how he operates and acts, his origin is just Kara and Flashpoint Clark’s but fails to connect together in a meaningful way beyond Taylor just wanting to handwave a reason why nobody knew he was around.

Now why do I prefer Calvin? Well

1. He’s Superman in all the essential ways (doomed planet, desperate scientists, last hope, kindly couple) but he’s also different enough to be worth exploring as his own spin. He clearly was not a journalist, nor does he have the same private interests as Clark does.

2. He’s President. He doesn’t just have the most physical power on Earth, he’s got the most political power too. It’s something Clark would never ever do, but Calvin does, and exploring why is interesting, similar to Red Son Superman. What made him go down this route and why? How’d he win election, what do his parents think, what do his peers think (Batman certainly can’t be comfortable with this)?

3. He operates just enough like Clark that you still recognize him as Superman, but also dramatically different enough to see he’s his own person as well. Clark (usually) has a non-interference policy with political affairs. Calvin goes and dismantles a third world nation’s nuclear program because he sees it as a threat (and because they’re lying about having it). Clark can’t serve the government without being written as a tool, but Calvin is the government. He retains his agency and independence and that helps side step the DKR problem without making him look weak.

4. He brings a bunch of cool Silver Age stuff, just “modernized” to fit his world. He’s got Superman Robot duplicates to take his place as President while he’s out being Superman, that’s fantastic! And finally like Alpha said, I like his costume more:


It’s amusing that while the New 52 suit for Clark didn’t work for me, I really like it for Calvin. Maybe the more stiff/formal look of the suit fits him better because of his civilian identity?

So that’s why I want to see more Calvin stuff and why I like him over Val. The political aspect he brings alone could be fascinating and offer storytelling opportunities you’d never get with Clark. There’s a Blue & Red story with Val coming, we’ll see how he gets used there, but I’m going to hope that Calvin gets a story in B&R too because he’s a perfect fit for that.

When you see a post this dense with good sense, you just want to curl up with a cup of coffee and really enjoy the damn thing. Can't say much more than well-done, sir.

If I must add anything, it will be that Val is also just the Superman of a specific Earth that is just "another Earth." It has no unique gimmick to make it interesting. If it was, say, a Victorian Earth and Val had the basic trappings of a generic Superman, at least the setting would help direct his stories into interesting places. As it is, he's a generic Superman on a planet with no meaningful relationships or stories to really make him stand on his own. They rushed him into (and out of) a relationship with the worst iteration of Power Girl as well and it didn't stick. Val just doesn't have much going for him right now. He can work, but if we're having to select between Calvin and Val? My vote's going to, well, the guy who got most his country's votes.

Calvin leads a multiversal Justice League. By default he's got way more going on just on that alone, and that's to say nothing of what Vordan added.

[Gaius]

[Vordan]

https://reesew.medium.com/michael-b-...e-3086e64920eb

In light of recent news I thought I’d bump this thread and remind people that MBJ namedropped Calvin as the Superman he’d want to play. Given Coates essay work on the Obama years, this could be what they’re doing and would be right up my alley lol.

[Johnny Thunders!]

https://reesew.medium.com/michael-b-...e-3086e64920eb

In light of recent news I thought I’d bump this thread and remind people that MBJ namedropped Calvin as the Superman he’d want to play. Given Coates essay work on the Obama years, this could be what they’re doing and would be right up my alley lol.

That's how I feel, and I thought he was fairly critical of Obama too, he ultimately says good things about him but he brings up shortcomings.

I think they have the potential to show the whole Superman Multiverse by introducing Calvin. And it makes me peeved that Spidey got there first!

[Vordan]

That's how I feel, and I thought he was fairly critical of Obama too, he ultimately says good things about him but he brings up shortcomings.

I think they have the potential to show the whole Superman Multiverse by introducing Calvin. And it makes me peeved that Spidey got there first!

Damn if they used Calvin to make a Justice Incarnate team up of all their multiversial movies that would be amazing.

[dornwolf]

Honestly I'd love for Calvin Ellis to be used on the big screen beats race bending another character. Calvin also has way more benefits in that outside of a few things he'd practically be a blank slate.

And in defence of Val-Zod, look Earth-2 was a fun book while it lasted and yes they basically made him into Clark 2.0 in the end purely because they were wrapping it up and wanted to end on a decent note. That all said he really only exists because Calvin exists. Both Val Zod and Earth-2 Thomas Wayne were only created to bank off the popularity of President Superman and Flashpoint Batman.

[Vordan]

“El Maybe” thinks it’s Calvin they’re going with: https://twitter.com/elmayimbe/status...960787977?s=21

But as the moniker implies that doesn’t mean it’s a sure thing

[Vordan]

Been thinking and there are some recent developments at DC that could point towards Calvin being the one they’re going with for the film. He’s featured on the Infinite Frontier cover and will apparently spoilers:

recruit Barry Allen for Justice Incarnate, perhaps setting up a Justice Incarnate book down the line

end of spoilers


Given he is the third Superman alongside Clark & Jon, with DC’s focus on synergy to take into consideration, this may be indicative of further plans for him. Or perhaps I’m just reading to much into these things lol.

[Ascended]

I pretty much buy anything with Ellis in it. He is by far one of the absolute greatest alt-Supermen ever created. And I'd argue he's the very best, though my love for Obama (failings, mistakes, and all) plays a big role in that opinion.

So yeah, I'd be down with a Justice Incarnate book, or the team appearing in the Flash on a regular basis, a President Superman movie, or just about anything else that gives me my Super-Obama fix.

[Vordan]

I pretty much buy anything with Ellis in it. He is by far one of the absolute greatest alt-Supermen ever created. And I'd argue he's the very best, though my love for Obama (failings, mistakes, and all) plays a big role in that opinion.

So yeah, I'd be down with a Justice Incarnate book, or the team appearing in the Flash on a regular basis, a President Superman movie, or just about anything else that gives me my Super-Obama fix.

Nice to see you posting back in the Superman forums again, but also sad because I thought you had finally escaped

Definitely should keep our eyes out for upcoming book announcements, they might provide clues as to which of the two major black Supermen WB chooses. Poor Sunshine Superman never stood a chance lol.

[Robanker]

Nice to see you posting back in the Superman forums again, but also sad because I thought you had finally escaped

You know the only way out is being banned. Don't front.