Falcon And Winter Soldier

[mace11]

Yeah, they're pretty much white-coded. Hard to call PoCs.

I feel they should make all the non-humans not coded to any specific ethnicity.

You two are talking about most or all the characters i listed?

Okay i look online to be more clear about those words,white-coded.

You talking about seen as white and/or voice or played by white actors only or most of the time even if the characters don't look white and are not white?
For example gladiator,rama kushna,the beyonders,perpetua,icon,spawn?

[marvelprince]

Because SJWs tend to be "radicals" who would rather burn "the System" to ground, rather than reform it (i.e. the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s versus the Progressive Movement of the 2000s). Not to take too much of a detour, but the author bell hooks, in her earlier works, talks about the difference between reformers and radicals, and how there was a split along racial lines among feminists in the 1970s, where hooks advocated total abolishing of the existing power structure (in order to address racial inequality), while mainstream feminists wanted simply be included within the existing hierarchy of the American society. To keep this line of thought on topic, I would gather that Sam is a reformer who wants to make sure that PoC are included in the experiment of "American exceptionalism", precisely because of the past injustice done in this country. And because of the likes of Isaiah and Karli, who were driven to an extremist POV, due to their own experience, it is beholden to Sam to make sure that there isn't another Isaiah or Karli, by making sure that such people are not driven to anger, and be consumed by it. It does help that Sam has had training dealing with people with PTSD and other trauma, as both a paramedic and a counselor. Heck, maybe Sharon and John need to talk to Sam, in order to bring them back from the mental ledge?

Very interesting. Yeah I think fits as a reformer through his experience seeing how people can be radicalized. Thanks for sharing.

[CosmiComic]

Absolutely.

There's still stuff that need to be changed in its entirety.

Stuff like policing needs reform. This isn't even just about black people being shot or anything, police shouldn't be so quick to administer lethal force. De-escalation techniques seem to be completely absent.

Then you have stuff like gun ownership, economic redlining e.t.c. But I don't want to derail the thread, I just thought that I should mention that.

Agreed.

You two are talking about most or all the characters i listed?

Okay i look online to be more clear about those words,white-coded.

You talking about seen as white and/or voice or played by white actors only or most of the time even if the characters don't look white and are not white?
For example gladiator,rama kushna,the beyonders,perpetua,icon,spawn?

I think so, yeah. Not just the characters listed, but aliens in general. What I mean is, not have every default alien be drawn or portrayed as based on White people, although that may already be changing

[mace11]

Agreed.
I think so, yeah. Not just the characters listed, but aliens in general. What I mean is, not have every default alien be drawn or portrayed as based on White people, although that may already be changing

Okay,then i would disagree that those characters that i listed with cool powers and are OP are seen as white-coded.
Most are all of them don't have humanoid form as well.

Most of those non human OP characters have not appeared in live action or animation by the way.
Gladiator was shown in x-men voice by white actor i think but he does not look white or drawn as white-coded.

Celestials were shown in the mcu and ego was shown in one form was shown as white,a few times not when he was getting with other alien women and his other form was a planet,his true form.
The other celestial shown in gotg was shown in it's true for,
The beyonder when not shown in true form in comics and animation he chooses a white look most of the time(so most of the time he is seen as white) but the beyonders are a different story and have not shown to do that.
Captain universe has been poc alot, more so lately.
Icon in his original form looks like non white and of course his current form is black and spawn is a black man from earth(not our earth of course).
Most aliens in dc and marvel for example do not look white or are not white-coded,but i think most are seen as white is because the white ones get the most focus in comics and other media like thor,superman etc.. but most created overtime are not white or white-coded.


Check out the links below.
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Races_of_Aliens

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Aliens

[CosmiComic]

Okay,then i would disagree that those characters that i listed with cool powers and are OP are seen as white-coded.
Most are all of them don't have humanoid form as well.

Most of those non human OP characters have not appeared in live action or animation by the way.
Gladiator was shown in x-men voice by white actor i think but he does not look white or drawn as white-coded.

Celestials were shown in the mcu and ego was shown in one form was shown as white,a few times not when he was getting with other alien women and his other form was a planet,his true form.
The other celestial shown in gotg was shown in it's true for,
The beyonder when not shown in true form in comics and animation he chooses a white look most of the time(so most of the time he is seen as white) but the beyonders are a different story and have not shown to do that.
Captain universe has been poc alot, more so lately.
Icon in his original form looks like non white and of course his current form is black and spawn is a black man from earth(not our earth of course).
Most aliens in dc and marvel for example do not look white or are not white-coded,but i think most are seen as white is because the white ones get the most focus in comics and other media like thor,superman etc.. but most created overtime are not white or white-coded.


Check out the links below.
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Races_of_Aliens

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Aliens

I see. I guess I was talking about the humanoid aliens, which always seem to be drawn like White people to me, but, that may be my perception and not fact. But guys like the Celestials just look like aliens, I agree on that.

[skyvolt2000]

I see. I guess I was talking about the humanoid aliens, which always seem to be drawn like White people to me, but, that may be my perception and not fact. But guys like the Celestials just look like aliens, I agree on that.

Well that is mainly due to budget issues.

See Star Trek Klingons.

Heck if you sniff around the casting lists for most Klingons Next Generation wise-black actors have played most of them. At least some of the background ones.
While most of the Borg have been white actors.

If you are sniff merchandise like toys-easier to make aliens using human molds than making new ones.

[CosmiComic]

Well that is mainly due to budget issues.

See Star Trek Klingons.

Heck if you sniff around the casting lists for most Klingons Next Generation wise-black actors have played most of them. At least some of the background ones.
While most of the Borg have been white actors.

If you are sniff merchandise like toys-easier to make aliens using human molds than making new ones.

Yeah, I guess it's probably mostly due to the conventions of thinking as well as budgetary issues.

[John Venus]

So is the direct market more slow to respond to changes?

Lets put it this way, the ones buying comics today are the ones who have always been buying comics. Very few of the mainstream audience who watches these movies will actually go out and buy a comic book. They want the experience of watching this on-screen with the same actors, CGI and all that. Comics are a different medium and reading a comic is not the same as watching it on screen and with the rise of the cinematic universe there have been comic fans who stopped reading comics all together because they can experience of joy of superheroes on movie/tv better than any recent could deliver according to them. Wanda/Vision becoming so popular that it sold out every collection of Wanda and Vision comics that Marvel had in stock at the time was a rarity not the rule.

[CosmiComic]

Lets put it this way, the ones buying comics today are the ones who have always been buying comics. Very few of the mainstream audience who watches these movies will actually go out and buy a comic book. They want the experience of watching this on-screen with the same actors, CGI and all that. Comics are a different medium and reading a comic is not the same as watching it on screen and with the rise of the cinematic universe there have been comic fans who stopped reading comics all together because they can experience of joy of superheroes on movie/tv better than any recent could deliver according to them. Wanda/Vision becoming so popular that it sold out every collection of Wanda and Vision comics that Marvel had in stock at the time was a rarity not the rule.

I can see that. Although the movies are behind in many factors, like diversity, for instance

Would other venues of comic readership, like online, be quicker to respond to change?

[marvelprince]

Lets put it this way, the ones buying comics today are the ones who have always been buying comics. Very few of the mainstream audience who watches these movies will actually go out and buy a comic book. They want the experience of watching this on-screen with the same actors, CGI and all that. Comics are a different medium and reading a comic is not the same as watching it on screen and with the rise of the cinematic universe there have been comic fans who stopped reading comics all together because they can experience of joy of superheroes on movie/tv better than any recent could deliver according to them. Wanda/Vision becoming so popular that it sold out every collection of Wanda and Vision comics that Marvel had in stock at the time was a rarity not the rule.

Yup. Comic fans keep aging and whenever something new is tried to get younger readers it’s decried. I am not the target audience for the DC YA books for instance, but I still think it’s a decent effort to get younger readers. Still not sure why things like Gotham High and I Am Starfire got so much hate. It’s why most of the “stop changing stuff” dissenters exist, cause they want things how it was when they first started collecting still tailored to them even though comics as a medium have always been progressive by nature.

[CosmiComic]

Yup. Comic fans keep aging and whenever something new is tried to get younger readers it’s decried. I am not the target audience for the DC YA books for instance, but I still think it’s a decent effort to get younger readers. Still not sure why things like Gotham High and I Am Starfire got so much hate. It’s why most of the “stop changing stuff” dissenters exist, cause they want things how it was when they first started collecting still tailored to them even though comics as a medium have always been progressive by nature.

Yeah. Not all change is good, but some is usually necessary

[Ascended]

I can see that. Although the movies are behind in many factors, like diversity, for instance

Would other venues of comic readership, like online, be quicker to respond to change?

OGN's and the book market seem to be adapting the fastest. You've got a ton of original work out there featuring various minority groups and diverse casts. And those things, they don't really target the direct market floppy crowd, they're going for those younger kids who're into manga and YA lit; those are people with no real preconceptions about who "deserves" what, they have no real knowledge of the comics or comic history, they just want a good story and don't care if it's Moon Girl or Batman, even if they've grown up hearing Batman's name but not Moon Girl's.

Digital seems to be a good place for more diverse viewpoints, characters, and narratives too. Plenty of LBGT and PoC characters in DC's digital first books, and that's nothing compared to the indie webcomic scene, apparently. Marvel is way behind here, with no real major push into original digital-first content that I'm aware of.

TV isn't the worst venue, but I wouldn't say it's great. For every Black Lightning show, which has a mostly PoC cast, you've got at least a few Arrows that don't. Agents of SHIELD had a diverse cast, Agent Carter less so (we can say that's partially due to the era, when a PoC wasn't likely to be working for a high-level intelligence agency, but excuses are cheap).

[CosmiComic]

OGN's and the book market seem to be adapting the fastest. You've got a ton of original work out there featuring various minority groups and diverse casts. And those things, they don't really target the direct market floppy crowd, they're going for those younger kids who're into manga and YA lit; those are people with no real preconceptions about who "deserves" what, they have no real knowledge of the comics or comic history, they just want a good story and don't care if it's Moon Girl or Batman, even if they've grown up hearing Batman's name but not Moon Girl's.

Digital seems to be a good place for more diverse viewpoints, characters, and narratives too. Plenty of LBGT and PoC characters in DC's digital first books, and that's nothing compared to the indie webcomic scene, apparently. Marvel is way behind here, with no real major push into original digital-first content that I'm aware of.

TV isn't the worst venue, but I wouldn't say it's great. For every Black Lightning show, which has a mostly PoC cast, you've got at least a few Arrows that don't. Agents of SHIELD had a diverse cast, Agent Carter less so (we can say that's partially due to the era, when a PoC wasn't likely to be working for a high-level intelligence agency, but excuses are cheap).

Ok. I hope as the market and readership diversifies, the direct market does so too.

I haven't gotten to far into the indie webcomic scene yet, but it seems to me like something Marvel might want to get into

Live action is doing an ok job but still has far to go

[Mutant God]

I wonder if US Agent is going to get his own team like Secret Warriors or Invaders.

I think at the end they should have called it Captain America and Bucky so it'll comeback around since Sam is Cap and Barnes doesn't want to be called Winter Soldier

[CosmiComic]

I wonder if US Agent is going to get his own team like Secret Warriors or Invaders.

I think at the end they should have called it Captain America and Bucky so it'll comeback around since Sam is Cap and Barnes doesn't want to be called Winter Soldier

If he's in secret Invasion, for instance, he'll probably lead some mini-team.

Idk about calling it Bucky, since that's his name, not his codename